Forums > Beginner Staff Moves > is contact twirling a newish thing?

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ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

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Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:apart from whats here on hop and on poi in the park (much thanx to the makers the videos have opened so many doors) i havnt been able to find any other contact twirling info anywhere. most of "contact staff" on the net is about contacting staff i know twirling has been round for ages but contact twirling doesnt seem to have been around for as long, although i could be totally wrong id be interested to hear how ppl found out about contact staffing and its origins

[ 15. September 2003, 06:13: Message edited by: ben-ja-men ]


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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Knoxious
.

Member Since: 25th Feb 2002
Total posts: 420
Posted:oi oi...
yeah you're right...contact fire twirling hasn't really been around for that long...not in the state it is now anyway...neckrolls and the like have been round for a while....

speaking personally...I saw two London guys called (Stick man) Dan & Toby (who I believe enlightened Rob/Bluecat) doing basic contact stuff a few years ago...then Mushey Pea Steve at Bristol 3 years ago (he was the forerunner really)...but then a girl called Stephanie came from France to a juggling workshop one night about 1 1/2 years ago.... She was a baton twirler and showed me and Fairy Ben and Tim Ogre a few CRAZY moves that helped us develop heaps....

So that's it from a London perspective... it's all developing right now Ben...you're/we're all part of it too

dave


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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:yuh, I got into it cos of CubeFX, wo is also stunning, but contact in baton has been around for ages. otherwise my influencfes have been glass and bluecat on here, but then i started off totally removed from any spinning community but this one...

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:i guess even the name contact staff is an acknowledgement to a whole branch of sweet staff moves that were worthy of formalising.
As this development continues, i guess we can expect tutorial vids as this process contuinues.
but the question remains, who killed laura palmer?!? :worries:


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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
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Posted:that wraps everything up nicely then

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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DJ Dantana
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Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:actually I started doing contact about 5 years ago, long befor any outside influence, and I was using a spear.... a sharp spear....

about two years ago I saw cube fx.... playing with a trident and I realized there was much more that could be done.

then I saw nix? and glass and blue... in that order...



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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:Cole, what the hell was that about? :confuzed:

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
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Posted:just helping bender out with his bob query

"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:ahhhhhh..... all is clear!
poor laura.


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Antti_Everything
Antti_Everything

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Location: Jrvenp, Finland
Member Since: 12th Aug 2003
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Posted:I've seen contact spinning that was out of this world in the Chinese acrobatic circus and a very similar style of spinning in an African circus i saw on tv. The chinese performer had a thick wooden staff around 170-180 centimeters long and the other end had a blade for weight so it was balanced differently. There was two performers in the african circus and they had similar but thinner staves and they were also passing the staves. Anybody seen these kind of shows?

A lot of similar tricks to the ones people here do but light years ahead of anybody i've seen through hop or col..

so...... i think it's been around a long time. i'd love to know more about the history of this style. i got to meet the performer from the chinese circus after their show and we spinned together! he did his thing and i did my double staff juggling. i wish i would've understood cantonese


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Charles
Charles

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Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:I think it is interesting to try and find when something 'started', with manipulation arts like staffing and juggling etc.

It is such an esoteric area, that poeple and cultures have come up with spontaneously all over the world and throughout most of time. Particularly when dealing with something as simple as a stick, I think we would allbe very surprised how many times it has come and gone, with masters doing crazy things and never being recorded or showing a prescence on the net.

Just coz we haven't heard of them or found them on google doesn't mean they weren't around...

(oops , baby crying, gotta go)


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Dom
Dom

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Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
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Posted:Earliest I've seen was a couple of basic ideas in that infamous gun twirling routine from 1899, which hints that other people might well have been doing more.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:bumpity bump.

Anybody got more information, know of any books on the trident / rolling form of spinning, that cubeFX does, and that antti saw in the chinese circus?


from

http://www.juggling.org/papers/history-2/
::

"One particularly amazing trick which was quite common was the rolling on the body, in all sorts of ways, of a large trident. This trick, as was common with most Oriental juggling, was usually coupled with amazing contortions and acrobatic skills."

An example of it can be found at the end of this:




"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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entheogen
entheogen

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Posted:The trident you are speaking of is known as Feicha in Chiniese, and is quite different than the european form of contact staff, not only because the center of balance is 2/3 in, but also from philosophy. The chinese style has a base form contact move, that all other moves flow into and out of. This moves also gives the stick it own momentum, meaning that you are not actively manipulating the stick to make a given trick, but are passivly reacting to how the stick is rolling.

The feicha is by far older than baton twirling, and I might add the contact styles have no similarity to each other. How old I'm afraid I can't tell you. My teacher didnt speak a word of english, and its hard to get concrete historical facts through pantomime, but apparently the origional feicha was double as longe as the 1.6m today, and was used as defense against tigers and other wild animals. Where the idea came to make contact moves with this weapon is beyond me.


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mcp
mcp

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Location: Edin-borrow.
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Posted:Coooooool!

Where / who did you get taught by?

and just to press my luck: Any websites / link / other info you know about it? biggrin


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Fei_Cha - Flying trident (Xiao Cha, Fei Cha or Ma Cha)



(+video)



I found some relation to Tai Chi too.



lighitng,



:R



ps: As far as I remember, there were group performing with trident(thinking it was on earlier COL).


POI THEO(R)IST

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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
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Posted:does anyone do contact staff FAST by anychance,some of the top acrylic contact jugglers have started picking up the pace but i have yet to see fast contact staff,before you all go mental at me i know speed isnt everything but surely its nice to have fast and slow?
ive thought about trying it myself but i m not sure if contact really is for boys so i think ill leave to you hippy types
long live robert the worlds fastest ever?!?!?!?


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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

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Posted: Written by: tim_marston


does anyone do contact staff FAST by anychance,some of the top acrylic contact jugglers have started picking up the pace but i have yet to see fast contact staff,before you all go mental at me i know speed isnt everything but surely its nice to have fast and slow?
ive thought about trying it myself but i m not sure if contact really is for boys so i think ill leave to you hippy types
long live robert the worlds fastest ever?!?!?!?



if you learnt contact you'd realise fluency and consistancy feels much nicer than speed. people generally dont do fast contact because thats not what contact is about.

and OF COURSE contact is for boys! i'm a boy! and i'm not a 'hippie'! contact is ubblove BEATIFUL!


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Chronofracture333
Chronofracture333

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Posted:@ Mr Majestik- people generally don't do fast contact because they can't. Nothing inherent in the style demands that the staff moves slowly. As skill increases so does the possibility ( but not necessity) of greater speed. The only thing contact staff juggling is about is contact juggling your staff. The way in which you perform it is a personal choice, and I enjoy seeing a wide range of styles.

@ tim_marston- nice way to bait the contact staffers! Even got a reference to Robert Heart in there, nice one....

In answer to your question. Yes contact staff is done fast, it's just that it takes a lot of practice to do this safely and in control. Speed for speeds sake looks like you don't know what your doing and results in missing teeth. I agree that a contrast / progression between speeds feels and looks great, especially when spinning to music.

I do not try and spin quickly. This does not mean my staff moves slowly. meditate

Oh and thanks to Entheogen an Richee for the info on the flying trident. Good work!

biggrin


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

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Posted:when spinning fire i dont really see that spinning fast makes much of a visual difference. theres more or less a point where the trails dont look any better no matter how much faster you go.

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Chronofracture333
Chronofracture333

Hobo Gaylord
Location: I am worldwide and lush
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Total posts: 329
Posted:Hmm... fair enough.



For me, speed is about context. How the spinning "fits" with a piece of music, the rythym of a performance, or the performer themselves dictates wether it's too slow, or too fast.



As for the trails left by spinning, well there are two kinds. The fire trail and the after image trail. Fire looks great in photos, but I love seeing antispin done fast enough and neatly enough so that the after image joins up and hangs in the air.


*no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no moves there are no*

"Oooh, what a shiny new move!"

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ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted: Written by: tim_marston


does anyone do contact staff FAST by anychance,some of the top acrylic contact jugglers have started picking up the pace but i have yet to see fast contact staff,before you all go mental at me i know speed isnt everything but surely its nice to have fast and slow?
ive thought about trying it myself but i m not sure if contact really is for boys so i think ill leave to you hippy types
long live robert the worlds fastest ever?!?!?!?



ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol

like this one time i saw this guy spin really really really fast, then he threw it really high, then he spun it really fast again it was really cool

rolleyes


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
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Posted:mr majestik i think the trails are longer if you twirl faster but just as important to me is the fact that the noise gets better to my ears the faster i go,
i also find twirling as fast as i can a great release of pent up energy,

chrono your views on speed are very similar to mine but much more elequently put,one thing that confuses me is that many people regard fast twirling as a cheap trick with little skill involved in my experience some of hardest stuff i do is my high speed twirling,

ben........................... tongue


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entheogen
entheogen

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Location: Berlin
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Posted:`as a cheap trick with little skill involved in my experience some of hardest stuff i do
Sorry Tim, don't you do JUST fast twirling?

My hardest four ball juggling trick is to juggle them split time. Oh wait, I just know the one 4 ball trick.

And yes there are fast contact twirlers out there, its just a matter of practice, if thats what you want for a style. My chinese teacher was constantly harassing me to practice the same moves faster.

And as far as the acrylic ball jugglers I know go, the more they practice a certain contact move, the SLOWER they are able to manipulate it cleanly, which creates a greater aura of magic behind the feat.

Probably your biggest problem with contact twirling Tim is that a lot of people that present moves are still at the beginning stage. To get any difficult contact move solid and visually clean takes years of constant repetition, and after that, when the move is clean, its the artist's decision whether or not s/he wants to present it fast or slow.


'There are two mantras in life, yum and yuk. I choose yum.'

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: Richee


Fei_Cha - Flying trident (Xiao Cha, Fei Cha or Ma Cha)

(+video)

I found some relation to Tai Chi too.

lighitng,

:R

ps: As far as I remember, there were group performing with trident(thinking it was on earlier COL).



Thanks Richee! biggrin

Feicha is what I expected, CubeFX was into it.

I like how they have to do 'minimal' steves, to keep the trident rolling, since in a normal steve it changes direction.

bounce2 bounce2

As for this other argument, it's beneath me. I mean, I can't believe any of you bothered in the first place, especially on such a good thread.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
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Posted:entheogen,iam currently working alongside a director and performer on a veryslow/veryfast choreographedfire staff routine,i also juggle with staffs in the style of the amazing rubber heart,and have fouund both styles very hard to get drop free,

mcp you are totally right sorry for dragging this interesting thread down to the base level of fast and slow good or bad,
my point is this
i am a fan of all styles of contact juggling from victor kees crazy five ball to the beautiful work of full moon performers and ministry of manipulation,
i recently saw a guy performing an acrylic contact routine where he would change tempo from very slow to very fast the contrast blew me away especially because he remained in total control throughout,
i wandered if a similar style had evolved with staff?


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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
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Posted:one last thing what and who is a steve?

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
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Posted:it's just a name given to a roll that goes up the arm, around the back of the neck and down the other arm.

fast spinning: http://homepage.mac.com/kenrom/iMovieTheater136.html


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
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Posted:and who is steve??

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
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Posted:Nominally mushypeasteve as far as can be said. Thou he nor drew would give it that name.

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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tim_marston
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Member Since: 16th May 2006
Total posts: 614
Posted:is that steve from hebden bridge3........tall bloke with a seriously intelligent approach to juggling?if its the same bloke he is 1 smooth staff twirler and amazing at crossdressing

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