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Taniwha
member
Location: Aotearoa
Member Since: 8th Apr 2003
Total posts: 138
Posted:A.K.A "waist wraps"
Yes i am talking about staff.

So, anyone else doing it? Got any cool variations (and im not talking contact).

Think iv only got 2bt in front maybee 3. Not sure, id better go out and see right now.

Oh yea, thats only single long staff. cept single is kinda pointless cause u can always swap hands.


Its all just smoke and mirrors

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:Staff waistwraps, eh?

Just for reference i usually do 3 beat, but 4 beat is do-able for special occasions
(right hand, forwards spinning stretch only at the moment, but hey, i'm woiking on it)

To get extra beats it helps to start by doing a carry behind your back to get into the waistwrap, rather than a full spin.

my skill level also varies for the four different stretches - left hand\right hand & forwards spinning\backwards spinning.

ok, variations:

continuous turning while keeping it in waistwrap position is kinda fun

handswaps as you pass BTB so its always in the wrong hand resulting in waistwrap stretch either side
(you need the 'wrong way' btb pass for this - going from backward spin to forwards spin rather than the other way round, feels a bit odd, but you can turn it into a carry which is easier)

Been trying a throw from waistwrap position, but am coming to the conclusion that its a bit too stretchy painful

keep staff spinning in the one point in space while 'wrapping' and 'unwrapping' your body around it going from waistwrap one side to waistwrap the other.

All sorts of stuff with doubles (eg. do a waistwrap with this hand while doing X with that hand)

ummmm ok mind gone blank. There must be loads more tho...


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:And HEY! i thought there was no wall plane

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Taniwha
member
Location: Aotearoa
Member Since: 8th Apr 2003
Total posts: 138
Posted:Oh i ment the window pane

Just been getting acouple of finger twirls and a wrist roll as extra beats in front. Not sure if that counts, kinda cheating. And im not even sure u can count beats with a staff?!?

Some of these variations sound interesting, hav'nt had enough time to check them all out YET But im sure you can go from btb waist wrap into btl. Anyone claimed that yet?

Oh yea, whats a carry?!? Is'nt that a name of a transition?


Its all just smoke and mirrors

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:huh?
sounds groovy man! I just need more info on what u mean btb in front wallplane/waistwrap.
does this involve the hand with the staff stretched to the opposite side's waist? like witht the elbow being btb and the staff being in front? if it is, then i think we should avoid confusing it with a poi term. many people trying to understand will be put off.
for this particular trick, my nicest variant is performing it with doubles with a side flip in the direction of the staff that is currently in front. it is one of the few remaining 'neglected' moves and one which i have decided to properly implement in COL4.


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Taniwha
member
Location: Aotearoa
Member Since: 8th Apr 2003
Total posts: 138
Posted:Double staff with (no hand?) side flip.

Yea, thats the move but i cant see how u can do both hands at the same time although i hav'nt tried it yet.

Actually "waist wrap" is not a poi term, its a clubswinging name that has infiltrated the poi styles. What do you call the staff version Bender???


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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:dunno what bender calls it, but I would call a waistwrap a "waist-roll".

where you let it go, it rolls around your waist and then you catch it again...

contact stuff really...but of course, i'm often wrong...


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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:um... indeed, and this is one of those times

Waistwrap is a confusing term from club-swinging for a move that does not involve wrapping something around your waist (cos club swinger didn't do wraps) but something else entirely

Check poi moves for what the waistwrap means in poi terms, but as far as staff goes we're talking about a stretch where, while spinning in the wall plane, you spin the staff behind your back and then in front of you on the 'wrong' side of your body, keeping it in one hand.

You could look at the very beginning of the practice vid, where there's a glimpse of me doing a waistwrap stretch with one staff while twiddling another over my head. (Please don't ask me to explain how to "twiddle" a staff, its far too complicated )

* wanders off wishing that he could do no-handed-side-bender-flips *


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Taniwha
member
Location: Aotearoa
Member Since: 8th Apr 2003
Total posts: 138
Posted:My bad, i should have worded it better. And i believe Inferno is right about the obvious meaning of the word, the same applies to poi.

So u call it a "stretch" huh? Atleast it makes sence.

*wanders off dreaming of btb stretch's while doing no-handed-side-bender-flips into btl*


Its all just smoke and mirrors

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:i'll just carry on calling it a waistwrap, i reckon.

Good enough for clubswingers for a century or so, good enough for me

Besides, i've never heard a staff contact move described as a wrap anyway. They're "rolls" or "this thing where it goes like this"


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:oops forgot to say: doin' the move with doubles, obviously each staff faces front in turn, not both at once!
as for the sideflip, i execute it as the staff is in the way, so that it appears that me bod is spinning around the staff for once! That was the entire reason for incorporating both trix in the 1st place. gettin' grieviously self-hurt was the 2nd place. I think Playstation is the 3rd place.

you must flip quickly after the staff reaches the 'wrong' side if you wish to use all the inertia for a clean flip.
youse can be the judges if it comes out cleanly if i make it onto the COL4 compo
butterfly twists is what i am workin on now, unfortunately for my back! I've landed me back quite akwardly on my staves more than a little..

what i haven't done is a single staff btl movement while upside-down mid-flip. t'would make a pritty photo though.
i don't use that icon nearly enough.


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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:aw i get so excited when I talk aboot acrobatics (everyone has their favourite focus in twirling, I guess!)
On the important topic of naming this move, definitely there is no consensus, whether there will be or not, I have always referred to moves involving arms holding staves in the 'wrong sides' to be tucks.
ie side tucks.
it's not a cool name, but then again, 'the offender' isn't too smart either


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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:@ silly names

Bluecat has got a fasntastic doubles varient in butterfly, contact roll into w/w position, then turn, lots.... hummm

turning the waistwrap forward is fun too...

l*r

T


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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:works in same direction too... i think it's on messy and on because life isnt(would link but feeling too lazy after not much sleep for 8 days(think i worked it out as 34 hours out of 200..., look in vids tho)

charles yours is a totally different move i think, firstly cause its horizontal.... i think i will also keep up the waistwrap name, even tho it can cause confusion it is the best clarification i've found... got a few new ones too, and now own a new camera so more vids will be on their way when i get back from twqo weeks awayf rom the mad tepooka crpwd....


love
R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Taniwha
member
Location: Aotearoa
Member Since: 8th Apr 2003
Total posts: 138
Posted:Yea, turning it into forward is where its @ for me. It sort of clash's with my 8hit combo exit from the move though. Have u guys noticed that, sometimes an extra move or rotation can reverse your whole system and mess u up if you hav'nt praticed your reverse combo?

Anyway, im just working on the standard "waist wrap" into blt spining kicks @ the moment, and hopefully get the "no-handed-side-bender-flips" after i get that clean.


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Posted:Hey everyone,

With the WW are you talking about doing it while holding both hands on the stick so the action is exactly like that of doing the move with poi? This is one of my fav ways of teaching WW and BTB..if you can do it smoothly with stick, poi and clubs arent a problem

If you are talking about doing it with a single staff you should see Benders site mentioned in another proximal thread, he does a doubles version which alternates a windmill-like staff move with a crossing btb ww on the other stick, which is a nice one I reckon.

The poi like chase ww and bfly ww are also no probs for the flexible among us, once you let go of your sterotypical differences between poi and stick, you will get more crossover between the more technical moves of both toys..

Tempest has been doing some sick alternating ww'ing the opposite upper arm technicques which are soo beautiful.

I think as technical poi has been around longer than technical stick (I think) there is more of a crossover from poi to stick at the mo...but who knows when it will start flowing back the other way? perhaps with double meteors?

Josh


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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:my gawd there are alot of ww staff movements i ain't never thought of!
a collective pat on the back for u all!
also, would they be still waist wraps when they are not executed waist level?
keep waistin' away!


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Posted:Dunno mate, but if we discard the WW usage, WTF are we gonna call them? cuz they aint wraps...really its just a normal twirl in an unusual arm / body configuration...

Josh


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Psi
boing
Location: Body in Seattle - soul still i...
Member Since: 20th May 2002
Total posts: 529
Posted:i reckon WW is a good name for those moves, the horizontal waist rolls i tend to call ..hm waist rolls

[[Josh]]
>Tempest has been doing some sick alternating
>ww'ing the opposite upper arm technicques which
>are soo beautiful
That sounds pretty interesting ! Any more info, Tempest ?

Been playing with doubles WW a lot lately, esp. turns etc.. Also when spinning in same direction, a WW is a nice way to get two sticks into one hand (the non-WW hand gets both staffs)

Mike


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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:waistwraps ain't perfect, but i guess calling them 'llamas' would be worse.
possibly.
/reaches for peruvian dictionary..
perhaps waistwraps is the best we can have for want of a better (descriptive and impossible to confuse with another move - simplicity optional) term to coin!
you have a valid point, matey!


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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:now a little clarification required here i recon...

for this waistrap shennaigans, i find (especially with doubles) that the waistwrap tends to be a '1-beat' i.e. the staff dosnt do a full figure eight on the opposite side rather only one end of the staff makes the circle at the front.

I know it dont have to be this way (I dont do it with the single) but is this what jposh and peeps are meaning when they talking about w/w butterflies?

T


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Tempest
addict
Location: Sheffield
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 522
Posted:Psi,

the transition that josh is talking about is very similar to the butterflies on your last vid with the long doubles but the timing is split time.

As in weave timing, one follows the other but they are still doing butterflies. I have developed a few exits to this move and I know the one josh speaks of.

It's not anything groundbreaking but the timing allows some slinky body movement. I just finished editing the footage from our PIP no. 2 but as I was behind the camera, all I got of me was some glo poi. Look out for it towards the end of the weekish.

any help?


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Taniwha
member
Location: Aotearoa
Member Since: 8th Apr 2003
Total posts: 138
Posted:Butterflys with staff, sound like fun. That i gotta see

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:butterflies with staff?

Not liderally...

you can't do it with one staff. Unless you mean the contact juggling butterfly, then you can. but thats a whole different ball game

Poi style butterfly can be done with 2 sticks, but to keep them in front of you in a poi stylee you'll have to fingerspin or keep on rolling it over the back of your hands or summat.

But usually when dodgy double stick fellas start mumbling about 'butterfly' things they just mean any move where the sticks are rotating in opposite directions.

Butterfly waistwraps with double staff = +


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:hummmm, not shure about that last comment, worrabout thread the kneedle?

L*r

T


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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:worraboutem?

you can't keep a double staff thread the needle in front of you. Can you?

*thinks*

surely not...

*thinks harder*

no way jose, not without fingerspins or hand rolls or summat. You need to keep switching side to keep it going, butterfly weave style.

or am i not thinking hard enough?

or were you disagreeing with something totally different?


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:you can do kinda little throws (one-time known as vertical palmspin) instead of fingerspinning, and whats wrong with fingerspinning anyway?

gotta learn butterfly weave with poi and then ill try it with me sticks.

T


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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:ooooh dunno if you want to do it like that...

both butterfly and follow time crossovers with sticks have different timing to the poi versions. If you keep the sticks 'in sync' like you do with poi then they hit each other. You need one hand to be a fraction of a beat faster than the other to avoid a collision.

i had to totally unlearn loads of poi muscle memory to get staff crossovers going smoothly.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:Yep - again I agree with Simian

You need to either fingerspin, thumb extend, wrist roll or vertical palmspin (mini 1/2 spin throws) to keep it in front (or do something else similar).

Oh - it doesnt have to be 1-beat, thats just the easiest variation, solid grip 2-beat is also possible and with the thread the needle stuff there is a lot of extra beat action you can get in there if you use fingerspins to draw out more beats...

OH yeah - and dont neglect the front WWs, just cuz your having fun bending your arms doing the BTBs. There are a LOT of places you can put the butterfly behind you for the 2-beats.

Love, Light and Firey Fun

Josh


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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:been at thease today, absolutly totalyy uncomfortably possible and i dont like em! gotta get me some matchsticks for this stuff!

T


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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:Its not how big it is, but how you use it (them) that counts...




I'll double WW your ass!!




Josh


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