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Forums > Beginner Staff Moves > review: the revised 'Innercore' Staff from Concentrate

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:Been twirling with the revised innercore staves from Concentrate, and know that alot of you must be curious about it.
Here is one Melbournian's review:

How is it different?
The locking mechanism in the handle and end pieces. The end peices are completely sealed. The connections are flush. New handle texture. They've totally improved what already was the best staff, IMHO.

What difference does it make?
Just a twist. Now it takes less than 1 revolution to secure the ends peices in; the older innercores used to take a few turns. This allows you to some extent twirl indian club style tricks then connect the pieces to form a staff, without pausing too much in the connection. A minor trick I do, but not very possible at all with most other staves.No difference in the feel of the locking meachnism - it's solid join with zilch rattle. I hurt my chest trying to detach without unlocking!Now that they've eliminated of exposed threading, I no longer have to keep such a thing clean when twirling around fine grains (eg. beach sand, forest soil..)The handle is now completely flush with the end pieces. This means falloutboy's fingers will lurve it! No more rubber ring or etched metal flanking the handle, just one yummy continuous flush surface.The surface of the handle now has a grippier texture, as opposed to the largely slick surface of it's forbear.the sticker has moved!! whoa! it's still black!The internals of the end pieces are now double sealed. Previously the ends were only welded, leaving some fuel to enter, subsequently igniting where it shouldn't. The revised staff has an inner sealing as well (part of the locking mechanism)The seal on the mechanism makes the cuuutest PLONK! noise (like when your thumb is pulled out of a bottle) when you detach the end pieces! The original Innercore was screw in, making assembly sniper-like.
For those of you who have the original innercore staff, the weighting is still as good!! Besides the fact that it's breakdown (I just love not needing to conspicuously lug sticks around festivals when i am... tired and emotional ) my favourite aspect of any innercores is the weighting!
There is so much inertia! between the light non-metal handle and the heavier metal and wick end pieces, there is noticeably greater inertia when when you perform inertia dependent moves like palming and throws. It's the first thing most people say when they try mine. If you can, lend a mates one for a twirl and you'll get this feeling!

criticisms?
some people are picky about handles, that they get in the way if they're not completely flat. (I believe it makes no difference, as the cleanest fire trails come from grasping in the centre of the stick) I have absolutely no probs palming with this handle (if anything it's easier - the inertia makes it easier to palm)
not everybody likes the weight of metal. These stix use aluminium tubing, which gives it a rather nice weighting, IMHO. The transmission of the aluminium's heat to the hand isn't an issue, as I've never been scalded by it's touch, plus the handle is non-metal.

Remember, these thing last and last! my original innercore is still is ace condition! it's outlasted all my firetoys (I did have to rewick it once)

wuv 'em to pieces, i do!
further stuff to add to this thread soon! b4 then, ask whatever you want!

[ 23. May 2003, 02:48: Message edited by: bender ]


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bulldozer


member
Location: Presently in So Paulo, Brazil

Total posts: 38
Posted:Hmmmmmm...gimme, gimme, gimme!!!

Sounds excellent. I'm very happy with my Concentrate staff but the new handle sounds really nice. Especially for contact since the current handle can cause some problems sometimes.

Any picts by any chance? I just checked out the Concentrate website and they didn't have any new picts


Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. --Mark Twain

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: HOP

Total posts: 1002
Posted:I am in love with them myself.


Non-Https Image Link

I have some zoomed pictures also in the HOP shop.


"May your balls always burn"

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Glåss
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:nice one thanks dr benderstein

Concentrate is still the only fold down staff that I would use,
top quality
and now they got rid of all the bits that used to niggle me about the old model, wow.
I'm sticking with my full length for the dedicated,
but this really might get expensive for me soon.


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falloutboy
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

falloutboy

remember
Location: Melbourne, Australia, Earth, M...

Total posts: 433
Posted:aye, my fingers do love these new staves - in fact, my whole body loves them. I'll tell you what, if innercores had reproductive organs then i'd .... (post censored to protect the idiot.. i mean innocent)
Ahem.

Bender, Keep your pretty red staves at a safe distance.


-As angels debate chance and fate-
i was riding through melbourne on a midget giraffe, things were peachy.

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Posted:I had a play on 'Dozers concentrate stick when we hooked up in Amsterdam. Very nice. I'd buy three if I had the cash. Two shorties and a longy.

::dreams::

erm noone mentioned the antiwarping handle construction? I think this is one of the best features. Fibreglass handle bends on impact, instead of leaving you with a broken or bent stick. sometimes means that the stick has a tendency to shudder a bit after catches or while doing contact, but it just means you have to be smoother, which can only be a good thing.

Josh


Josh


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Salinger


member
Location: Southampton

Total posts: 382
Posted:Those staffs look amazing!

On their website they say underneath the international shipping info that you must add $15 for orders under 10 items...is this right? I guess if it is it must be because lots of shops order from them or something like that.

Are the prices the same as the innercore staff prices on the site at the moment?

Cheers,

Salinger


A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words...

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:New innercores??? where? Have i really been paying so little attention lately?

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:I think it's a bit clear now why the last lot innercores completely sold out yonks ago

Charles, mate! it's less about your up-to-dateness and more about my being desperately seeking to be trendy.

josh, to be honest, I've never tried out the bending (what me, a bender?! lies, all LIES!!) the handle cus i have a love affair with it and would never disrespect her.
erm.. 'it' i mean.
/wonders if he said too much...

Happy Birthday Mt Everest!


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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Could you explain the locking system in a bit mor edetail too please Bender/Malcolm?

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* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:the oroginal innercore locking mechanism was basically aluminium thread against a rubber stop with etches to help with the screwing in.

the new one? airtight seal.
see da picture? there's a nut on the handle ends. before each nut, there is a specially shaped rubber ring, angled so that when the screw is turned, the rubber compresses wider, sealing the end pieces into place.
the nut is turned by two correspondingly shaped dimples stamped on each staff end piece. Hence the internal surface of each end piece effectively become wrenches.
the seal is solid. Aside from the welded ends, there is an internal silicon seal on each end piece. i hurt my chest trying to defeat the locking mechanism, it's that solid.

quite an original locking/sealing mechanism, heh? I used to think that vacuums sucked!


by the way, i had to ask for this explanation about three times to actually geddit!!!
but then again, mommy always said i was 'special'


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Okay...so here is a bit of food for thought then...

1) I have had my 13-- for some time now and LOVE it! (thank you Malcolm) and I just got my 12-- from Malcolm from the contest and LOVE it (thank you Malcolm! ) Edit* Hey I just noticed in the new toys part of the shop, the new ones don't come in the short length???? But that's my favorite!

One of the reasons I love these is because of the club handle attachments that screw into them. I have always really appreciated the diversity of the tool. With this new locking system, does that then get rid of the ability to be used as clubs/torches?

Next, the way I am understanding it, the locking system essentially depends on the seal this rubber "ring" gives it right? What happens when it wears out and/or breaks/cracks...as per what normally happens with rubber rings over time? Do these things come with some sort of warrenty?
I don't mind the seemingly endless screwing of the last ones simply because I KNOW they will not come apart.

Just curious. I will most likely end up getting some at some point anyway! lol

[ 01. June 2003, 04:14: Message edited by: Pele ]


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:Fire goddess,
there are plans for handles with the new locking meachanism, which I'm told may not necessarily be made of plastic.
definitely not finished yet.

about the thick rubber ring wearing out, I'll email you if/when it ever wears out, ok?

also, from my experiences with these innercores, I've been able to perform double BTB palms while kneeling over forward with them - a move that i've not yet been able to pull off for more than 2 revolutions with any other staves.
ohh so likeses my preccioussss!
/fondles firetoys


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bulldozer


member
Location: Presently in So Paulo, Brazil

Total posts: 38
Posted:It's funny that you mention it, bender. I have also noticed that a lot of BTB moves are easier to perform with my Concentrate staff that with my other staffs.
I guess it's just easier to feel what the heck the staff is doing behind the back due to the tapered handle.


Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. --Mark Twain

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: HOP

Total posts: 1002
Posted:We have the knobs now to convert them to swinging torches in the HOP shop.

Click here


"May your balls always burn"

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:I don't even like spinning staff and I suck at it. But I really want to buy this, especially now that it has those lovely knobs.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I have to say I don't like the look of the wood with the metal at all. The old ones were black plastic, and I love that. It gave a real continuity to the tool.

I showed and discussed this with several people and we all feel that the screwing mechanism seems much more safe than this new one. The whole ease of it coming apart (as bender described for one of his moves) is part of what I don't like. I flip and twist my staff so much that is has gotten loose in the past. The screwing mechanism was so long that it didn't matter. The idea of this just unnerves me. *shrug*

Astar, I don't know about the new ones but I loved the old handles that turned them into torches. Very nice and fluid, once you get used to them! I like the shortest length of staff for them personally. And with the staff part, it is just a matter of practice, but I have to say, they are some of the most solid swinging torches I have ever used as well. Big thumbs up there!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Astar


member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.

Total posts: 1591
Posted:Yeah the old plastic knobs did look better. But that smooth wooden texture seems like it would be so nice for swinging. This is purely a guess though because I have never touched swinging clubs in my life.

Edit:where im not a profesional performer feel/function means more to me then looks. and you did raise a good point about the safety of the locking mechanism.


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ShadowV


member
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 6
Posted:He he... Just came back from Juggleart... I saw the new innercores. I love em

They do have a bit of weight behind them but i love it. As for the safety of the locking mechanism though im no expert, no where near, i have to agree with bender. From the play i had with it there it seemed very strong. I dont know too much about it ATM but i will know more when i get it. The one I have now is one of them dodgy 1 piece staffs, which due to poor practice to begin wid got droped a bit, and it too light for my liking. Oh i soooooooooooooooooooooooooo want the innercore


-I dont know if Im alive and dreaming or dead and remembering-

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:Totally agree with you, astar, form/feel is much more important than what colour the knobs are - though touching wood seems to be a good luck thing...

Pele, totally agree with your thoughts on handles coming off, but perhaps you should twirl the new ones at least once, just as shadowV has.

cpt_shiner wasn't entirely convinced either at first, then we swapped staves for a night and then he was totally keen on 'em

I'm considering adding 2" more wicking to each end-piece, but dunno i'm not sure; my staves reach only 1m assembled and that might cause issues for the flesh on my hand...
but definitely i'm making a tiny bag fer em just for the novelty of having set that packs down to < 50cm. possibly with a lot o' fur

I guess the point of this thread was that this staff was too good not to rant on about it, cus otherwise people may discuss it and form opinions about it without ever touching one. Something this totally fondle worthy, needs to be properly spelt out to all twirlers, professional, newbie and all the luverlies in between!..... mmmmm!


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cpt_shiner


member
Location: melbourne, AUS

Total posts: 18
Posted:yes there very lovely dammit i want a pair! stop teasing me . an extra 2"? got a taste for 6" wicks eh bender hmm i wonder how that happened

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:yeah but i'm not attempting it - the last time i had an innercore wicked up that much, i didn't even _consider_ doing it myself!

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Cassandra


Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !

Total posts: 4224
Posted:I ordered a new innercore staff and i have to say I am very very far from being in love so far
I have given my other one away to a thai guy on the beach but dang I really miss it...

I do not like the locking system so much and i am bugged to have to buy new knobs and throw away the old ones... that is extra costs and man those staves are allready quite pricey...

I think they are all right for contact staff but definitely not the best becaues the center piece is a bit bigger than the tubes...

Glass i agree that innercore still are pretty good but I have to say I am now thinking of saving up money to one day be able to buy the staves that dom had (the long ones that turn into short double staves)

disappointed by the new innercore sorry to ruin the mood

shine on
cass


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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FlameOn


member
Location: Croydon, Surrey, England

Total posts: 6
Posted:Just had to add my tuppence-worth...

Have been spinning the old screw in Concentrate staff since I bougt one at EJC 2001, it was, and still is the best staff by far that I have ever used!!!!

I am glad that Concentrate have managed to inprove on their design, (as the screw in connection does take stupid amounts of time during a show to do up and undo!)and am thirsty to buy one!! Unfortunately that wont happen for a while as have just invested in a set of Aerotech glo-poi, and a glo-staff!!! Veeeeeerrrrryyyy sexy!!!!

The safety aspect of the new locking mechanism will (im sure) come out in time, it will just take a lot of people throwing it about and dropping it to test it to its limit to make the final judgement (not that Im sure that Concentrate havent already done that!!!)

Cant wait to get my hands on one and start testing!!!!!


Life is an adventure, live it as such!

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howwoward
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

member
Location: Reno

Total posts: 73
Posted:First post on this board...

More experience on the concentrate staff-
I've had the new concentrate staff for about a month and a half now, and like everyone has been saying, the feel and balance is incredible. Best staff I've laid my hands on (beats a broomstick anyday!

However, I'm pretty concerned about its safety, now that I've been playing around with it for a bit. In short, it has the tendency to come apart when I'm doing _fast_ flat spins, holding on to only one of the two end pieces (like using a staff to take someone's legs out, only in an artistic firedancing kind of way!)

Everytime I've done this for a few days now, no matter how tight I tighten down the connections, the staff breaks apart (with a loud, but cute "plonk!"), flying at high speeds into the park I practice in. Mighty dangerous, if you ask me, and mind you, my staff is only 1.5 months old.

I love the staff, but am realizing that I can't use it anymore to do all the high speed moves I want to (imagine how disastrous it would be if the staff was on fire, and if the flaming end hit someone?)

I'd buy concentrate again, but only if I could get the old staff. Seriously, what do y'all think about this?


Sometimes, you just have to believe.

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:howwoward, is she clean? the lock works by airtight seal, it may pay to give the end pieces a wipe on the inside. Also, do you tighten it enough? when you're messin' with fire it's never possible to be too careful.
i like fire too


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howwoward
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

member
Location: Reno

Total posts: 73
Posted:Bender - I wish the seals were dirty or grimy or worn (or something!) but alas, clean as a whistle , and no matter how I tighten the staff down, I can still pull it apart with my hands. Maybe I'm just too strong for my own good (yeah, right!)

Howard


Sometimes, you just have to believe.

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:hmmm, oh dear
with the staff coming apart, do both end-pieces behave like this, and if so does this happen all of the time or some of the time?
if it only occurs with one end-piece, then you know where to look.


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi howwoward, I could be a faulty mechanism. I would suggest contacting Concentrate (the manufactures) or Malcolm at Home of Poi.
Good Luck


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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howwoward
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

member
Location: Reno

Total posts: 73
Posted:Bender and Stone - thenks for the replies (and sorry for this late reply!) - Bender, it actually happens with either end, depending on which one I'm holding - its usually the one I'm not holding
Stone, thanks for the advice - I'll contact malcom!

thanks again!

Howwoward


Sometimes, you just have to believe.

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted::nods:
me agrees with the stone man, i'd really have to look at yours staff, howard, to help you any further i'm afraid..


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