Forums > Beginner Staff Moves > a fishy business... any advice contact staffers?

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King Of Bongo
King Of Bongo

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Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Dec 2002
Total posts: 522
Posted:flatmate & I have reached the stage where we can do a fair bit of contact stuff etc and are now moving onto trying fishtails.
It seems pretty damn hard- but as with anything we'll eventually get it with practice&perseverance. However, I was wondering if (practice-aside) anyone has any pointers as to how to go about learning how to do them.
Mr Glass, apparently from your vid, you're the dude to ask...

PS- apparently you met my flatmate (Tim from bristol) at the brixton workshop and at the BJC. random fact of the day. He would like to know where you get mr blanchy (or smt) bubble juggling balls... no clue there- i aint a juggling bloke, just play w m ba... erm. never mind.

[ 20. May 2003, 08:01: Message edited by: King Of Bongo ]


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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:"eat the fish"

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:bounce.

work on half fishtails first.

try reverse you might find it easier.

eat the fish.

R


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King Of Bongo
King Of Bongo

addict
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Dec 2002
Total posts: 522
Posted:Yay, got my first coupla fishtails today!!!
don't know how, was just holdin onto the staff and doing a fishy-sort-a-movement whilst holding the staff onto my wrist with the other hand and suddenly let go and hey presto! the rear end of a fish! (bit of a botch job, not quite just the tail, but something resembling it!)
then tried it again and got something more like it...

what is a half fishtail? I can't really imagine it... I know it sounds silly, but what half would I do? where does the half start?

bounce? tried bouncing, but the staff just fell off my hand, i presume i was just being stupid and doing it at the wrong speed/time...

cheers for the pointers 1112, you sure must smell like a fish!!!
cheers bluecat (and you must definitely smell like fish cos ur a cat and we all know that cats love eatin fish!!)


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PK_
PK_

Lambretta Fanatic

Member Since: 20th Dec 2001
Total posts: 4991
Posted:sorry couldnt resist it, bit of a BJC2003 joke.

PK.

"To be an angel, one need not have wings.
In giving love there is an equal grace.
Nor need one seek the aura in the face,
As love unveils the beauty of all things."

*Francois Couperin.

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:Half fishtails (if bleucat means what i think he means) are like doing a fishtail without the tricky changing direction bit. Just take the staff on the back of your hand from one side of your body to the other (again backwards is easier)

You can keep on taking it all the way around your body spinning on the back of your hand indefinitely (i've only managed a 540 so far). It stays on there because its folding round the other side of you, rather than rolling all the way round the hand and dropping off.

Alternatively you can take the staff from one side of your body to the other on the back of one hand, transfer to the back of the other to take it back, then transfer to the first hand and so on. I like this one, it looks cool but lacks the diamond hardness of the full fishtail.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Posted:Fishtails happen twice as fast as a figure 8...at least in my Experience.

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:Eh?

figure of eight goes at whatever speed you choose to do it, same as fishtail

(i think i just had a sudden realisation of what you mean)

You mean it switches side twice as often as a figure eight spinning at the same speed?

now i see. sorry


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Posted:you got it

that hand movement seems to be twice as quick. probs cuz it is!

Josh


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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:It really helped me to think about it in extreame terms of moving around the stick, so that you are placing youself under the falling end, and when you switch sides try not to move the stick sideways in space, rather move yourself out of the way. eventually i recon you can get sideways controle aswell but its easier to learn like this.

gotta admit i been to busy with my ball to torture myself over thease things, Ill get them tho, someday....


L8r

N <fish>


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Psi
boing
Location: Body in Seattle - soul still i...
Member Since: 20th May 2002
Total posts: 529
Posted:I find with forward fishtails that they work better when i sort of rest the staff at its centre on the knuckle of my index finger as it
moves from side to side and stretch my thumb outwards as much a possible to bring it round again (the tricky bit)
Some people prefer to rest it on their wrist though so just play around with it...




[ 03. June 2003, 02:02: Message edited by: Psi ]


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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:Ok, so what's a fish tail?

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Hah...So i'm not the only one who doesn't know what they are...

go to this thread and do and do a word search (CTRL -F) for "bulldozer" one of his posts has two great links to videos.

don't even try to understand it through text, unless the vids don't work

All in m opinion of course


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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:Charles, when you say this thread, do you mean the one we're standing in right now? I tried that and it couldn't find it.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:a Fishtail is basically keeping the staff spinning on the back of your hand or wrist and switching it to either side of your body, only a half rotation on each side.

EDIT: i just had to come back and say whoah there! i said that in a short clear and concise manner with no digressions or silliness or rambling whatsoever! Not even a smiley anywhere! quite unlike me really.

[ 10. June 2003, 22:42: Message edited by: simian ]


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:just before becoming incapacitated(oh god...another 6 days...) i was working on and getting pretty solid catching in fishtails...forwards and back too. i recommend it cause the speed change looks rather tasty

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:if thou needeth, here is a copy of the japanese baton realplayer clip of a fwd fishtail from a previous HoP'scussion (and that used to be online.)
please download and save the sucka (ie please don't keep reading it from the 'net) so that my website has enough bandwidth to keep this poor soul 'appy

as for the fishies..... man!, that's sooo hard! just sooo hard!!
how big a staff are you dudes twirling with, may i ask??!?!!


***edited to make cents***


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[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:If my hop video gets in there should be a closup fishtail (admittedly a bit ragged) which I do witha 5' (150cm?) staff. Have tried it with smaller and although considerably more comfotable its a bit more fiddly, a big staff knows where its going, a little one gotta be told.

L*r

N


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-><- Kallisti

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:quote:Originally posted by +):
a big staff knows where its going, a little one gotta be told.heh that be cool.
can i quote that? it soo true!


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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:yup. 150cm.

no what you mean thomas...


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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:we should put it on t-shirts.....

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:argh tried to do it for ages tonight, but i realised that i don't know how to - a problem which the military like to call a 'show-stopper.'
but thanks for allowing plebs like me to know that it is possible - it gives me hope, and minimises the gathering sense of futility at having hit my arms repeatedly...


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Psi
boing
Location: Body in Seattle - soul still i...
Member Since: 20th May 2002
Total posts: 529
Posted:Do people have preferences for keeping the staff lying on their fingers, back of hand or wrist ??
Im still a bit undecided about which i find easier and which i should go ahead practicing with ..

currently favouring the fingers but its a bit awkward....

Mike


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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:I prefer back of the finger, just above the knuckles.

That being said, when practicing, it pays to try and avoid the things you like doing, so your skills in other areas get better faster.

You should get lots of practice for your prefferred method without even trying...


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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:yo,

for me at the mo, forwards: finger, backwards: wrist.

there are loads and the next ones are in int forarm and then the shoulder, but thease are long term stuff I recon.

L*r

T


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Psi
boing
Location: Body in Seattle - soul still i...
Member Since: 20th May 2002
Total posts: 529
Posted:yea, been trying to do even half a fishtail on the shoulder, to do a 180deg turn with the spin direction. Finding it damn hard though and so far without success There's a very nice continous move where you do a should to shoulder roll in front of body, then, as the staff goes over the second (receiving) shoulder you do half a fishtail and repeat in the opposite direction on the other side... f**k thats sounds complicated , sorry - better than a 1000 words: watch the 2002 baton video on http://www.worldsbaton2002.com/index2.html
(the "2001 Canadian Baton Twirling Championships" at 2:25)

And thats not even full fishtails on the shoulder - is it possible ? hmmm...

Mike


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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:the move thats spnning my nuts out is the vertical neck-pinch-catch and trow again, hummmmmmmm.

L*r

T


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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Little more info on that move please nix??

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Psi
boing
Location: Body in Seattle - soul still i...
Member Since: 20th May 2002
Total posts: 529
Posted:Nix?, if you mean the move i think you mean (at 0:43 on that video) i totally agree how on earth ?
Thats going to be even harder with a long staff since you'll have to throw it quite high to avoid hitting yourself ...

Also like the one at 1:05 - been having some success with the continous neck/back rolling but I havn't quite figured out how to keep accelerating the staff ? After 3-4 turns my staff just sort of slows down due to the friction and that's it, it falls off ... any tips anyone (pleeease )?
Im not even attempting the rolls round arms/front neck, thats just insane ?!!?


Mike


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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:I think you actually have to sort of shuffle the staff arround, sometimes by twisting the shoulders and sometimes little throws or bumps.

I know what you mean, for me at the mo this is the next big herdle, but I think Im waiting for a way in rather than put the pain in of figuring it out just now. I having far to much fun with poi to be battering myself about the head witha metal stick.

< cant believe he just said that! >

N


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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:@tom(but i know what you mean)

shoulder fishtails are doable, but they got even more bounce than hand/wrist ones, and you HAVE to have the stick in the right place, and as mentioned above, are muuuuuch easier with a big weighty stick...


got a few noo fishtail variations but wont tell until they're smooth and that could be a while cause of my hand


tho if you press me....


and anyway i pinched the idea from josh


R


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