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one of my colleagues(no mean staff spinner herslef) came back from a gig in fife(scotland) with a shocked look on her face and speechless. to tell the truth i thought this was still a glasto comedown, but it turns out she had met a baton twirler.... and our lives were changed.
thows or contact stuff? i think i will start with throws, cause the contact threads are doing well and really i want to keep all these things to myself..
the main thig that shows up from the throws(she gave me the 2000 world champs video ) is the presentation and movement when the staff is in the air. things like flips and cartwheels, pirouettes... most staffers i have seen (myself inc.) seem to just stand and wait for the damn thing to come back down. obviously the baton is muchmuchmuch lighter than almost everybodys saffs, so lots of things would be difficult in the time given, but some things are really easy to add in and seem to give a lot to the throw,
1. moving the other arm when throwing, either direction. chopping down in the opposite direction to the staff seems to be the most effective. 2. pirouettes. if you keep your eye on the staff during the throw it is much easier than trying to find it again, esp. in the dark!!! 3. throwing in pairs. for some reason although i do a lot of this, their way seems very smooth, if a little unimaginative. almost all the things they do on the video are like a kind of walkaround(juggling ref, for those that dont know, one person has both for a fraction of a second then passes their staff to the other whilst both are walking round in quite a tight circle.). but i am assured there is more...watch this space!
one thing to note...most of my staffing is done with 150cm staffs with 13cm wick either end. this makes it very dificult to do a lot of the baton throws at the speed they twirl at. this is not to say they are not doable, but would certainly be easie with a 3' or 1m staff. there are a lot of under the leg and btb but i have not yet inspected them closely.
two things to note. one of the most impressive things done is the variety of catching positions. these include under the leg, under the leg whilst doing a round kick( mea lua for capoeristas ? for others.....sorry ) i think other than the contact this is the stand out thing for me, so when you see me emerge from hibernation in a year or so, catches will be all over the place(in a good sense...)
three things to note... another colleague was told very expressively *your throwing technique is wrong* because he does not throw from the back of the hand.... rejoice in your differences and throw how you like.. #
contact stuff coming very soon(could be monday, i am showing and workshopping over the w/end), i promise, just i realise this is already very long and lots of info in it. sorry if some descriptions are hard, but i have tried to give the idea more than the actual move.... please tell me if you prefer this or serious detail.... Rob
Posted:FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS!!!!! I have been suffering bashings for sticking with my baton knowledge, but it is that that has made me the best staffer I have yet seen. Yes, open your minds to the world of baton, and many new spins will take place. I am so glad you are happy and excited with your baton video and are now aware of the serious competitve level and training that goes into it. The only reason I can staff like a whiz, is because I used to be one of those kids in that video. This is also why I refer to myself as the "Staff Master". If you can do all that stuff in the video of baton twirling, like I am capable of, then you would gladly be able to wear that nickname, because damnit, after competing against the 7-time world champ for 5 yrs in a row, I've damn well earned it.
I sure hope that this new video of yours will help you learn new tequniques and moves that make your staff spinning even greater. Good luck. And if you do have any questions in regards to your video, or baton, I am more than happy to help. quote:"...but to carve and shape the very atmosphere through which we look, that is the finest of the arts."
the 'mea lua reversao' requires me arms to sweep sideways to be able to twist my upper torso on the second half of the move. a missed catch cops ya a whack in the ribs/head cus the body is sideways. I try to concentrate less on kicks cus i have unintentionally roundahoused too many spectators I mean a shaolin butterfly kick looks mad as, but it does not agree with my outlook in firetwirling (friendly communining with fire) I go more for handsprings, tumbles and ariels.
When I get the chance, I'll show yas a firesword trick with the 'Au Sem Mao' (or in gymnastics 'side ariel') from the standard 'Ginga' (or in Tekken 'that E. Gordo thing when you don't press the buttons' ) I have to stretch for 20min every day now no more slob mornings my stoopid staves get in the way, and chains wrap me, so swords are the go with acro, IMO. I should be slapped for mixing shaolin forms and weapons without the discipline, and Capoeira movements without the music and rodas!
I am glad for you that you feel secure in your skills, Tanessa. By and large, most staffers are rather the opposite. Perhaps competition has it's place. Humility also. Who would be the second best staffer you've ever seen? are acrobatics, throws and contact your specialty? what tips you you have for converting tricks with a 3' staff to a 6'5" staff? have you seen COL II? I'm trying leg tucks with a 1.2m heavy staff, and my ankles hate me with a passion! It would be exhilirating to see footage of yer funky baton moves with the danger of fire
Terresa, I dont really want to add to the atmosphere but suffice to say I think you got the wrong idea about peeps here, irreverent, cheeky and a little close to the mark they can be but bashers they are never. However, words like 'Im the best' and 'championships' are quite out of place in what is esentially a gift comunity. Im the best person Ive ever met (ha! rob), but I know for a fact there will always be someone better and that it dosnt matter.
If you ARE the twirler you say you are you should have no kneed to bolster yourself like this infront of a lot of strangers online, you sould be able to sit back smugly and shake your head at all thoes 'how do i do the 3beat weave with doubles?' threads.
This is a comunity, bender is barky, cantus is sarky and charles keeps standing up and trying to call order. Its not to parade your skill (thats for shows) but to share our knoledge. If you sit back and say 'i amma master, ask me' it dont work, we cant ask about things of wich we have no concept yet. If you start to post a few moves, a few techniques we havent seen, questions will come and freindships will follow with respect not far behind, mind where you are.
Im sorry terresa, I dont mean to add to the general wave of criticism since you went off on one, but you did go off on one.
This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate -><- Kallisti
Posted:What I'm looking for out there if for other people to say that they are great staffers, and mean it. I'm not trying to brag and say "Oh, I'm the best", because I know I'm not. If I went and showed this one particular girl I know how to do it, she would be the best I have ever seen. Plus, I haven't sen all the spinners in the world. Wow, and you guys say I'm making ALL the assumptions? Maybe I didn't spend enough time down in Australia to finally see something fantastic. I did see some really great stuff, and some really talented performers there, but I am looking to see stuff that is not even performed on this site or has not yet been made up (or available) for advanced lessons of staffing. In no way am I criticizing this sport, no matter how you guys want to interpret my words and play them back upon me. Like I said before, I am secure. Yes, I love ariels, tumbling, cartwheels, triple spins, illusions, elbow work, finger twirls, tosses, catching behind, blind, under either leg or even backwards blind between my legs, all both vertical and horizontal. Yes, I can make the conversion from a shorter staff to a longer one (my fave 4 foot), but if my threads were read also, you would know I know how to make all the conversions and also know the restrictions of certain moves vs symetry. Weaknesses: I can't do back flips, nor will I even bother to try, I'm too paranoid of landing and breaking my neck or something. I can't breakdance (or haven't learnt yet). I think that and fire twirling would be a cool combo I would love to see. I can add to this list for a long time, but I'm stopping now. My point is thru. Sure, my lingo for staffing may not be up to snuf as you guys say this is a mostly self-learnt sport, so crucify me. Does somebody dare walk in my shoes with me for a moment? Then maybe you would understand my need that is not being satified here. I shall leave you all to your discussion board. Still, good luck to all, and congrats to those who are willing to open themselves up to new spins.
Alright, normally I lurk in this section and then go work on my staff, but thanks to a tip to follow all of this, I need to speak up.
Tanessa, I used to baton twirl as well. In fact, this discussion has been brought up several times and there have been MANY baton twirlers who have passed through here, some who have stayed. You are not the first, you are not the last. And many have had conciderable skill. From experience I know that while there are similarities the styles between staff and baton can be very different, neither one is more right than the other.
I am not bashing you, in fact, no one has been bashing you. There is miscommunication going on here to a great effect. You are trying to make a point about baton twirling forcefully, and not realising it is not for everyone. There are ***MANY*** ways and styles to staff spinning, this is but one. You say no one is listening to your point but the point is being overshadowed by ego.
You ask that everyone listen to you and pay attention to you when you come onto this board and say things like "I refer to myself as the "Staff Master" " and "after competing against the 7-time world champ for 5 yrs in a row, I've damn well earned it.". You have to understand, that has no meaning to us. You are pretty much starting over here. Congrats to you for having the guts to do it, however, I can also walk on here and say I am the King of Siam, and obviously I am not. Does that mean we don't believe you? Nope, it means there is no proof, you have not presented evidence as to your skill (the descriptions you think you put up are vague at best) and as such you are being read as any other new person in this community, with leariness and intrigue. From what I read you have come in here demanding respect in something that is revered and a passion of many. You have a distinct advantage over many that you do not talk about, to get to those competitions you are so proud of you had camps, trainers, coaches, and a knowledgable, and costly, support group in front of you to get you there. People on here primarily do this alone and deserve to be extremely proud of their accomplishments, no matter how small the step may seem to others. We support one another on here without ego and unconditionally. You say you are the "Best staffer you have seen." So are *many* of the people on here, and still others can be very loyal to the ones they think are the best. It is easy to get lost in the me,me,me aspect of anonymity on the web, but in a community like this we share, listen and try to communicate as best as this medium will allow us at the same time trying to appreciate and respect the differences we share so that we can grow together.
Nix?'s suggestions for how to approach this board are spot on. Drop the ego and the baton superiority and simply flow. Post up some of your knowledge and see where it leads you. Your ideas are strong, as I am sure so is your talent...so is the talent of many here. You are **very** welcome to be here and post and give us your valuable input, however as much as you have been begging people to listen to you, you need to stop and concider their points, and feelings, as well. The road to earning respect is a two way street. Please concider this when posting in the future.
Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir "Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall "And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Posted:Miniero, Congrats on your discovery. Somethings to keep in mind, batons are way lighter and thinner than most staves out there, not to mention shorter. Adjustments will prolly need to be made to the moves. Also, for throwing, a trick with the wicks, (I picked up from Polynesian spinners), have a little more wick on one side than the other. It weighs the staff differently and so the throws go higher (toss up heavier end first) and it also helps guage how it will come back down (heavier end first). I it is very possible to do "normal" routines with this and to do helicopter moves. The shift of weight does cause the center of gravity to shift a bit, so experiment with it! Have fun!
Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir "Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall "And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
You're comments to Tanessa were thoughtful, diplomatic and appreciated.
Please take heed of these words and relax into this site where we can all happily exchange our skills and new techniques and better the future of our art. You may be very accomplished, but to think that you have nothing to learn from us is ignorant. You may wish to know that the spinners on this site range from absolute novice to expert, and some of our spinners are highly regarded and renowned worldwide.
Again, may I ask for your input and advice on staff? I value your opinion as much as any other, for this is a forum for comment and debate, and no one persons views are more important than the next.
A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words...
Fab weekend in skye, much beautiful twirling, some interesting technical (music) problems....and lots of very nice and happy people.
tanessa, maybe i should hand over to you for technical descriptions of the moves i was going to post here..? that is i have only a really basic knowledge of even the moves i have managed since last week, so......
so....i will try basic ones tho.
only one contact one i have really mastered(tho there are lots to do, most have been covered in some way on other htreads, only really variations, if at high speed and smoothity...)
first thing to get is a trap. put your right arm out to the side with it fully bent at the elbow, then bend your wrist back (like a sideways duck? someone has just suggested). the staff sits between arm and hand. press down with your hand and the back end of the staff comes up. bring up your other hand and roll from one wrist to the other, then down into the same trap in the other arm. the staff can then be allowed its own momentumto move to the left side of the body....and repeat to endless joy.
looking back this is not stunningly clear so obviously a good idea(see top!!! )
this move can be continued all round you by turning a little more as the staff comes round to either side, and popped over into a back roll....then as it comes out straight back onto the wrists(believe me i will get this in a day or two.... !)
nix you cheeky monkey, we both know steve is much better!!!!!!!!!! )
should point out there are loads of things to do on a practise staff, only not really fire oriented....catching one end with your neck(ps got normal neck catches tho. and nasty bruises and sore back. not recommended with your heaviest staff )
and loads more. I JUST CAN'T FIT IT ALL INTO ONE POST!!!!!!!!
Like I have said before, I participate in both, having way more experience in baton than staff, but staff becoming my fave by far. I would love to be available to help with any transitions from baton to staff (or vice versa more likely). I will be going on tour with my staff across Western Canada for the next 2 to 2-1/2 months, and I know my access to the internet during this time will be really limited, due to all the locations I will travel (I have yet to invest in a lap top). I will make an effort to try and make it to the boards here, and help only if asked. So, I guess I will just post a thread under "need help with baton?". So if anyone does require assistance in any way, I will check it there, and do my best to reply.
Posted:Pele, let me just say you are one of the most, if not the most, well spoken and coherent person i have ever had the honor of listening to, or reading, and i know its off topic, but the boards are lucky to have you...
and on subject, i do find the subject of baton very interesting, as i have started to discover how versatile shorter staffs truly are, i would be very intrigued to learn some of the idfferent styles and types of moves associated with baton...
and Taneesa, thank you very much for the revised attitude, it makes you much more accesible, i know feel like i dont have to climb Olympus to talk to you
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
Posted:bender you extremely talented small animated person(is that really you doing those things? )
lots and lots of capoeira with staff stufff to be done, i have been working at it for a little while(ever since i got back from brazil!) but a new topic seems more suitable than cxarrying on here. know what you mean about the stretching tho miserable backness. not helped by 2 hours contact staff every day with big toys.
nix i will have you upside down spinning in a day if only you would get your talented behind onto a train seat and up here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
sorry for no new stuff but next viewing session starts in a few hours....aaaaahh the suspense must be killing you all....... Love M
Posted:ok… one more(ok maybe 2) contact bit before this thread goes the way of many others it would seem.
horizontal round the shoulder wrap thingy.
horizontal spin, anticlockwise, hold staff in centre(right hand) place staff on left shoulder, and lift left arm up) and round whilst giving the staff a little push. the staff should roll round back to its starting place on the shoulder provided you get your head out of the way. most important thing as with most contact is that your body must move round the staff as much if not more than the staff moves round your body.
this goes into much more flatspin contact stuff as described by mr nix in ‘look mum no hands’
sorry only time for one(must go out for more practise
ps nix you sick boy have you been practising more than me?!?!?!?!?!?