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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Hi all. It's been a little quiet on the staff front for a while, but as there seems to be some more active staffers online I thought I would continue this long-running-saaaaga-of-a-staffer-whose-gone-to-the-dogs....

"""Here we go again in an exhaustive attempt to get some more common terms for staff moves to enable webbased sharinf of tricks.
There are three sections.

Staff Movements = What the staff does in the air regardless of how it is achieved).

Manipulation Movements = What your body and fingers etc do to make the staff behave a certain way.

Body Movements = Just what the body is doing, without referring to the staff at all.

These are split so that people who are doing certain moves in a different way with the same result get to share their ways instead of thinking they are the same. Which has been a major problem in the past.

----------Staff Movements----------------

* HELICOPTER = A horizontal spin in the same space, usually above the head.

* ROTOR = Any vertical spin that stays in one space. Same as HELICOPTER, but perpindicular to the ground.

* 1/2SPIN = Where the staff has only spun 180, this is regardless of any other motions or actions.

* FULLSPIN/DOUBLESPIN/TRIPLESPIN/ 1/4SPIN ETC
= As above, 1 spin is a complete rotation and the rest as they apply.

* FIGURE 8 = To do a 1/2SPIN on you left and right side with the path crossing directly in fron of you. A trail from the centre of the staff would make a sideways figure 8 wrapped around you.

* DOUBLE FIGURE 8 = An extension of the FIGURE 8, with two extra spins on each side.

* SIDEWAYS FIGURE 8 = A FIGURE 8 where the 1/2SPINS are in front and behind you, instead of on either side.

* POP = Simple flat throw into the air, horizontal without spinning unless otherwise stated.

* OVERHEAD POP = Flat throw from the front and caught behind or from behind and caught in front.

* CLOCKWISE = The spin of the staff in relation to the chest of the staffer

* ANTICLOCKWISE = Reverse of clockwise, or same direction but behind your back rather than in front.

----------Manipulation Movements----------

*PINWHEEL = When the staff spins in a large vertical circle made up of smaller circles. Most common pattern for a continous BTB move.

* FINGERSPIN = To roll the staff through your fingers one-by one, keeping the staff stationary and spinning in a ROTOR or HELICOPTER.

*** please note, FINGERSPINS do not need to travel along all five fingers, but the end action where the staff wraps under or over the hand to begin the motion again is seen as the end, not the beginning***

* PINKYSPIN = FINGERSPIN that begins with the pinky, and then to the ring finger, index finger and so on.

* THUMBSPIN = Same as PINKYSPIN, but starting form the thumb and then traveling along the pointing finger, index finger and so on.

* FORWARDS = To lead a movement or spin with the thumb on the leading part of the staff. As in slicing a sword down diagonally in front of you.

* BACKWARDS = Same as FORWARDS, but with the pinky on the leading part of the staff.

* FORWARDS FIGURE 8 = To lead with the thumb-half of the staff when doing a figure eight.

* Wrap = To roll the staff lengthwise around a body part.

* ARMWRAP/WRISTWRAP/NECKWRAP etc...

* CATCH = To grasp the staff in one or both hands that were not holding it earlier ( )

* PINCH = To grip the staff between non-hand body parts, such as the shoulder and neck or the forearm and bicep. The staff continues to move or spin to be a pinch, otherwise it is a STALL.

* NECKPINCH = To grip the staff between the neck and back or neck and chest while keeping it moving.

* HANDWRAP = To release the staff while spinning it so that it rolls over or under your hand and then cathing it again. Often used during FINGERSPINS to keep the staff centred.

* STALL = Any move that stops the spin completely for at least one milliheartbeat.

* FOOTSTALL = Horizontal catch or movement with the staff stationary and horizontal on your foot for at least one milliheartbeat.

* BALANCE = Balancing the staff on one end (preferably without fire) on a bodypart for at least one milliheartbeat.

* TOOTHGRAB = Any STALL or move where the staff is held by the mouth/teeth/TONGUE!!! etc. People like myself who experiment with moves like this should prepare themselves for ridicule...

* TUCK = Like an underarm roll. To swing the staff under your armpit, either to catch it there or as part of another move.

* PALMSPIN = To spin the staff in a flat palm, without using the fingers.

* "insert body part here"SPIN = To spin the staff on your "IBPH" without using hands or arms.

-----------Body Movements------------------

* 180 = Half-rotation of entire body (usually using feet)

* PIROUETTE = Full-rotation of body

* 45,90,270 = Well, you get the idea, aye?

* LEFT-TWIST = swiveling at the waist 90 degrees to your left

* RIGHT-TWIST = swiveling at the waist 90 degrees to your right

* LEFT-TWIST[45][20][180!] etc = Swiveling the appropriate number of degrees, also includes RIGHT-TWISTS.

***Any move calling for 180 or more should put an "!" after it, coz its very hard to do!***

Miscellaneous

*BURNOFF = To spin off excess fuel by spinning the staff horizontally on its own axis, sometimes producing two fireballs.

-----

Right, come on guys there must be lots more basic ones I've missed...


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Spyke
member
Location: Wageningen
Member Since: 22nd Feb 2002
Total posts: 28
Posted:(Insert body part here) ROLL: Any move where the staff rolls along a body part?

Overhead Figure 8: A figure 8 executed above shoulder height?

Any of them help?

Spyke


'At this moment, you should be with us, feeling like we do, like you loved to, but never will again.'

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Yep...I'll add the rolls in shortly...Cheers.

Unfortunately, I'm still not certain of what an overhead figure8 is. As if it goes above the arm for one sweep and hooks beneath it, then it seems to be a different move to what I know as a figure8.

With my understanding (which is often wrong), and overhead figure8 would hit the arm on ever downswing...

Could you help me out a bit more please Spike?


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Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:I know it is just flattery, but that was really helpful Charles, so thanks

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:what about flatspin, for when the staff is spinning resting on the palm of the body, like a palmspin but freakier.

N


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Spyke
member
Location: Wageningen
Member Since: 22nd Feb 2002
Total posts: 28
Posted:Sorry Charles i was thinking that an overhead figure 8 should be termed more correctly as a sidewards overhead figure 8. the staff goes either side of the head rather than the chest and back. Looks really cool backwards.

Does that qualify as a new 'move' or just a variation? It can be done with doubles too i think, at least one more spin any way, maybe not two.

I'd love to get the in front of body one but it is beyond my grasp.

Spyke


'At this moment, you should be with us, feeling like we do, like you loved to, but never will again.'

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:thats funny, Id call that figure eight in front, chest and back would be sideways figure eight.

The things we think!

N


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Spyke
member
Location: Wageningen
Member Since: 22nd Feb 2002
Total posts: 28
Posted:I'm still not getting this clear, here goes:

It is a overhead sidewards figure 8 because it goes past your face (spinning parallel to your body) and then past the back of your head (also parallel)

it is the same as a sidewards figure eight but instead of your arm being straightish out to the side, it is bent at the elbow towards your headso that it is above shoulder height.

Does that make sense?

Nix - flatspin - like palmspin but on a different part of the body? Like headspin for instance?

Spyke

PS I should have said this earlier but top work Charles, very comprehensive list so far.


'At this moment, you should be with us, feeling like we do, like you loved to, but never will again.'

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Thanks Rozi...flattery is always good, but airmailed chocolate is even better
Can you tell me how it was helpful, then some other lurkers might benfit too?

And thanks Spyke, now I get it!!

Yeah, you can call it that if you like, same for a waist figure8 or an ankle figure8.

This thread isn't really here to to list every staff move ever, its trying to get a standard for the common moves that re the building blocks for a lot of staff.

Reading your posta again, that was a perfect description, and most people should get that (for some reaosn I didn't).

As long as the basic motion is the same, to prevent confusion, then that's cool.



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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:---(sneaks in, feeds the fish, sneaks out again)---

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:--(sneaks in, eats the fish, sneaks out again)--

[ 13 July 2002, 01:34: Message edited by: Nix? ]


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:I suspect a sideways overhead fig 8, could also be described as a horizontal fig 8.

Would a definition of a staff flourish be useful in manipulation movements? And, could someone please enlighten me on this fish tail move.

Cheers


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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pozee
old hand
Location: san diego
Member Since: 27th Jul 2001
Total posts: 886
Posted:those were not really fish anymore charles...

anyone got a light?

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ShadowV
member
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 8th May 2003
Total posts: 6
Posted:Thought u might bump this up for everyone though mainly 4 me so its easier 2 get to.

Fairly new to this all but think im going along well. Got'n in ta breathing fire too, and can do dat fairly well and im aware of all the risks. Though im wondering what would be the best chem to breathe.... I have had a customer at work who's brother apparently does it suggest metho and cordial but the cordial would bugger up me staff so i dont quite belive dat. ne who. im off to twirl


-I dont know if Im alive and dreaming or dead and remembering-

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:So who's this Charles chap that started the thread?

And whatever happened to him......


"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:No idea who he is...Stone, the fishtail isn't on here yet but I think it is like a horizontal figure 8 in one hand?

Can some other staffers please help to clarify this or to tellm eI've got it wrong completely?


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fusion
member
Location: Melbourne, Australia (Eastern ...
Member Since: 10th May 2003
Total posts: 4
Posted:how bout the corkscrew or was that already mentioned? and the windmill too?

peace


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MTM Monster
MTM Monster

Moat monster
Location: someplace murky
Member Since: 21st Jun 2002
Total posts: 208
Posted:Windmill? With a staff? Isn't that just a fig 8 over your head?


If so then it'll be covered by fig 8.


A good deal of growr, some grr and quite a bit of snarl, spit and some biting. just a regular day at the office.

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Thanks Charles, good to see some action. Did you notice that this thread was started nearly 12-months ago?

Now for my next move request, wots is a shot-gun? Its gotta be more than a double figure 8.


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Shotgun? Windmill? Corkscrew? I guess maybe it is time to resurrect this thread, especially as everyone seems ot have gone leaps and bounds ahead of me...(like they weren't already!!!)

As to the age of this thread, Stone...Have you thought about it's name? quote: Naming staff moves IV kinda implies a 3rd, 2nd and 1st thread doesn't it? I'll let you guys in on a little secret that I hinted at in the first one, which was the REAL reason for these threads.

The naming issue was and is useful, but there was a very sneaky side-issue which was why i decided to start all of these so long ago...


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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:charlie, you got it wrong again,

fishtail is a vertical trick, the staff never does a full figure eight, isted its broken down with the end spinning circles on either side of the hand. a 1 beat, if you like. your right about the back of the hand tho.




N


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:code:please,
if (shotgun=double_figure_of_8) {
Then
I'll(Be_darned);
} else {
just_tell(me, what it is!!)
}


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:if shotgun(forward) = 1 then
beats_behind = 3
beats_infront = 2
else
beats_infront = 3
beats_behind = 2
end if


N


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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bulldozer
member
Location: Presently in So Paulo, Brazil
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 38
Posted:You guys are such nerds...errrrrr....geeks...hmmmmm....programmers!

Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. --Mark Twain

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Beats...beats beats, all this poi talk is driving me nuts (maybe I should try poi more often)

Anyway...Nix? or +), I still don't get this fistail thing, is it like a vertical figure 8 where oyu don't move your arms?

I have a move like that that I call a mini figure*, the arm is full extended and the motion of the staff is just provided by fingers and wrist, no arm movement at all.

Somhow, a fishtail seems to indicate more motion that that...


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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:Shotgun - Staff does extra rotation before taken to other side/rear.

We worked out someplace (in a staff thread) that a half rotation in staff is the same as 1 rotation (or beat) in poi.


So I would say Shotgun is something like your double fig 8 as described above.


Some people seem to call the move a "cradle" as well and also too.....


"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Tempest
addict
Location: Sheffield
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 522
Posted:erm, I know its late and I might not be thinking straight but how can a half revolution with a staff be the equivalent to a full revolution with poi?


Can anyone direct me to a thread with the shotgun explanation please. If a figure eight (2 beat or two revolution of a staff has extra beats why not just call it a 3 beat or 4 beat?

Isnt this just a name for the sake of it? I fin it much simpler to describe it as extra low or high beats to a froward or reverse fig 8 (2 beat) as you look at it.

So a forward 2 beat can have an extra beat low where you drop it behind you or one infront where I think the cradling term came from - very similar to a half a snake when talking about swinging clubs.


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Tempest
addict
Location: Sheffield
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 522
Posted:Oh yeah, this 'half snake' or cradle (cradled on the forearm in front the chest) would have an off centre pivot point.

This extra beat can be achieved with a a central pivot point by doing a thumb extension where the staff is 'trapped' between the thumb and the back of the hand for half a beat.

I could be wrong in what I am refering to as a cradle but I don't like that term or the shotgun one when simpler terms can describe the same thing.

Also Charles, I believe the fishtail to be like your mini figure 8 but on the back of the hand, not in the palm like a normal figure 8.

[ 15. May 2003, 16:19: Message edited by: TEMPEST ]


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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:The back of the hand??????

um.... i have NO idea how that works

um.... ---<help>---


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bulldozer
member
Location: Presently in So Paulo, Brazil
Member Since: 21st Aug 2001
Total posts: 38
Posted:Charles, a rescent discussion talked about an online Japanese baton site that had a whole bunch of videos. There were two videos of "fishtale". The URL's have changed somewhat but I believe that these two will work:

http://www.interq.or.jp/mars/tom0503/taiikukan/adbyce/vtr/fish.rm
br>
http://www.interq.or.jp/mars/tom0503/taiikukan/adbyce/vtr/r-fishtale.rm
br>
It can be a bit tricky to do this moves, especially with a large staff that carries some momentum but it certainly can be done


Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. --Mark Twain

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:yo,

i was talking about beats as head passing, ie tree heads pass behind before you bring the staff to the front, the shotgun is just a name for the extra beat without the 'cradle' or thumb-extansion, its the one that happens in the shoulder and wrist rather than laying against the arm. its just a name (this is to the best of my info.)

Bulldoser, i actually find fishtails easier with big heavy staff.

Charles, a figure eight normally has one leading head that does a compleat circle, followed by the other head on each side of the body.

Fishtail runs on what i call a one beat, so that one head makes a circle on one side and the other on the other, its even less than a figure eight

one beat = one head circles on each side
figure 8 = two head circle both sides
shotgun = three heads pass on each side (sort of)

the fishtail is a one-beat circle on the back of the hand, the hand swiches side to support whatever end is decending. Months of mental torture.

as Bender once said concerning fishtails

'Is this going to be in the test?'

and the answer is YES, if your taking the supper hardcore contact test, that is.

I only learnt thease properly at the bjc and theyre still not smooth. once you get it on the hand it can be done on forarm, elbow and shoulder. tho dont askd for a demo.


L8r

N


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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