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Kaos


member
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Total posts: 11
Posted:G'day all!I'm new to HomeOfPoi and twirling in general though I've picked up the basics pretty quickly I'm happy to say. Anyhoo I noticed mention a couple of times from people about martial arts origins of staff (and poi) moves, which is only logical.My question to you people is which martial arts incorporate staff moves and techniques? I've been interested in taking some martial arts for a while and if I can combine two interests/hobbies of mine I'd be one happy flaming kung-fu twirler.Cheers!========================- K.A.O.S.

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Posted:hey there Kaos
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Most of the martial arts that I know of teach unarmed techniques first, and then you start with the weapons. This is basically to ensure that people picking up weapons will have already demonstrated the ability to learn control and things like that before picking up the potentially more dangerous weapons.that said there are a few Martial Arts systems that teach weapons right from the word go - however I honestly couldnt help you with the specifics, as I dont know what your local area is like for weapons martial arts.Your best bet is ringing round a few reputable looking schools, and asking. There is no harm in being upfront with what you want out of a class, and the teachers will know more about your local scene that I do.Good luck,Josh


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Antti_Pantti


member
Location: Jrvenp, Finland

Total posts: 17
Posted:My firetroupe has a great martial arts scene in one of our performances. It's done with two 6 foot staffs and it's based on kung fu. There's a huge difference between a basic theatre style fight and a coreographed kung-fu fight. Looks really great and we hit with the staffs as hard as we can so the audience hears the sounds of staffs hitting to each other even over the music.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yo,there is a specific staff-form called bo-jitsu (not the right spelling I think) and the staff or 'bo' is meant to be the same height as you plus your fist (ontop of your head). thease things are very heavy and could lead to serious injury of gung-ho twirlers. The techinque itself is very stop start, dosnt have the same flow as twirling but uses a lot of usfull stalls and pretty stances. I know someone who learned from a book, but its not the best way. I been getting into hybrid bo (more for performance) and its really fun, but next Im gonna have a look at gracefull stick, not so agressive.anyway, thats my infoLoveN
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This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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phuzzz


member
Location: saltspring island, bc , kanada

Total posts: 160
Posted:i found two books: one stick figting- a self defence guideand the zen of akido.i find the book on akido verry gratifying. i'll post pix soon if i can. uses staff up to armpit or to your naval. plilipino stick figting uses two 2foot peices of bamboolike clubs. i encorporate/adapt alot of swordfighting/form into my staff routine... im learning to encorporate capoera(sp?) intomy dancing as well

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Learning a martial art will definitely help you define a different style over time.A friend of mine is a Judo black belt and through Judo had used a Bo staff. He picked up my staff one day and was spinning away happily. Apparently a big difference in style is that most martial arts with staff are stop/start, opposed to keeping it spinning constantly.There was also somebody a while ago who posted about how he thought his Tai Chi skills helped his poi. As soon as I get round to it I'll be enroling in a Tai Chi class as it sounds good (and apparently will help stop me being so clumsy!).

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glowshow


member
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Total posts: 406
Posted:Ken-Po. Kicks and sticks. I have a couple of friends who took a good bit of this as part of a comprehensive style (can't remember what it is called) Both use the pilipino sticks with amazing skill, both use a bo, and one specialized in kitana. They are certified instructors as well. A lot of the style translates into poi and staff. For instance, one of the more basic moves for the pilipino's and double swords is the "rotunda" which is simply a forward and reverse weave pattern, but with sticks. Just bear in mind that it is intended as a weapon, so you won't get a lot of the flowier stuff out of it, but I'm sure it will give you a better awareness of what your body needs to do to achieve certain things.------------------I feel more like I do now than I did when I got here.~~~Dance as if noone is watching!~~~PLUR(RE) ---J---

FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)What do you want to be when you grow up?I want to be a kid again!I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.~~~J~~~

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TheGrynygogg


member
Location: England, just north of London

Total posts: 47
Posted:How about plain olde English Quarter-Staff fighting. Maybe not much use to you but apparently they teach it in Hydepark on sat or sunday mornings. Perhaps this is true and maybe someone should correct me if I'm wrong. Please!!

Just ignore me. Everyone else does.

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SickpuPpy


SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.

Total posts: 1100
Posted:Firstly, Nix, Bo-jutsu isn't a staff "form". It is a genaric Japanese term used for staff techniques. Bo = staff, Jutsu = way/path.Kaos, If you're looking for a staff combat style that will flow with your twirling, Kung-fu is probobly your best bet. It focuses more on spinning and circular motions with flashy and intricate staff/body movements. As opposed to many of the Japanese styles that are very linear and stiff, focusing more on direct strikes and grappling. Unfortunately I don't know much about Korean martial arts or styles from other Asian countries besides China and Japan, so I can't knowingly say what they would have to offer, but you might also want to look at some of the Brizillian styles that tend to be really dancy.I would look into a Kung-fu school that teaches the Shao-lin style, as it is an incorperation of most of the Kung-fu styles so you will get a more rounded and complete collection of forms to work with.Good luck. I have been in diffirent martial arts for many years and I've never once been sorry that I've spent so much time and effort with it.------------------If you love something, set it on fire.

Jesus helps me trick people.

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JeStEr
SILVER Member since Jul 2001

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne Australia

Total posts: 214
Posted:I did a fire twirling demonstration for a Tai Chi class and at the end picked up a couple of the swords and started spinning them round as if they were poi and the moves certainly traslated as far as rythmic swinging, although I also got taught the basic traditional way they use a sword and it only comprises of a few movments which flow but not in the twirling sense.Ninja use a lot of weapons such as staff/bo, sword, nunchukas etc so maybe that would be something to look into.

Trying to play the Akashic records,
but my turntables not compatible.

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SickpuPpy


SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.

Total posts: 1100
Posted:I took Ninjutsu for several years, and the staff style doesn't really translate well into fire twirling. Almost all the ninjutsu schools teach Kukishin-ryu bojutsu or something very similar, at least the major schools do, i.e.: Bujinkan, Gimbukan, Jeninkan. It is very linier and to the point, it focuses as much on grappling as on striking and the basic spins are really only taught as a warm up exercise and not really used much in the actual techniques. I think King-fu is the way to go for melding combat staff and fire staff.------------------If you love something, set it on fire.

Jesus helps me trick people.

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Mars


member
Location: San Jose, Ca USA

Total posts: 6
Posted:That style with the Filipino Sticks is called Escrima, i'm sure you could find lots of interesting links to it online. It's basically a style of paired weapons fighting... i once saw some guys practicing escrima in a park with machete's instead of sticks.. looks pretty damned cool... sounds awesome too...

~Mars The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate its contents. -- H.P. Lovecraft, The Call of Cthulhu

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eyemonkey


member
Location: london, UK

Total posts: 22
Posted:Just to say, when looking for a kung fu school for staff work, you would be better off trying to find one which teaches modern wu shu as opposed to more traditional kng fu styles because it is more perfomance-y in its style.

peace out,EyEMonKeY

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Tempest


addict
Location: Sheffield

Total posts: 522
Posted:Phuzz, Any chance of some of those akido pics? Please could you tell me the author and publisher too?Cheers,TEMPEST

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Karmic


member
Location: Cork

Total posts: 1
Posted:High there,Im also new to this site, its great, im hooked already, learning day by day.About the martial arts links to poi and staff moves...I was under the impression that the poi was used by Maori tribes as a display before battle and as a celebration afterwards.....well I think that Shaolin styles are the most similar to display twirling, using 6ft and 4ft staves, a 3 sectional staff, nunchaku, chains and more. As someone already mentioned, most styles of martial art require the practioner to first familiarise themselves with the basics for a few years before going on to learn weapons training. This normally occurrs after reaching 1st black belt. Japanese/Okinawan karate styles have many weapons applications at advanced levels. Aikido also uses staff techniques(using a bo or a jo) but as before, these are pretty basic until you have been practicing for a few years, and in fact are not really geared towards display, more towards a spiritual goal.Escrima stick fighting is also interesting from the point of view of holding the sticks and also spinning them 360 around the hand very quickly. Not so much for display twirling though.As to other styles using weapons both poi and staff related, see Hapkido at advanced level for double nunchaku moves, very similar to current poi displays. Wingchun kungfu also uses staff at advanced stages, some circular movements, but quite a lot of thrusts and slides involved.Personally, I have found that when practicing Taekwondo patterns, if I use a staff as I practice, almost all the moves will allow me to incorporate it, and some of the moves only seem to make sense when using a staff. Staff being an essential tool as well as a common means of protection all those years ago.... Also I have found that by using the nunchaku you can use mostly the same moves as the firepoi (and many of the staff moves too)and if you think about it from a defence/offence viewpoint you can see how many of these moves would indeed be useful to someone in a self defence situation, many of the front and back swings can be double blows from a staff or chains, and you can protect yourself from all sides, as well as blocking (eg. the sliding overarm motions in thread the needle or the weave).I began with bojitsu and for 3 years now I have been practicing with and without fire. Since the use of fire is mostly for display, I try to stick to the traditional methods of bojitsu so as not to pick up any bad habits and also because the weight of the staff gives strength to my arms. I think that the weight is not too important if the technique is correct, the staffs own momentum carries it through, and no injuries are inflicted. I prefer to learn the traditional basics, even if they appear very stop-start initially, This is important from a practical aspect of combat, as not all free flowing and circular movements would be applicable to self defence. when I become more confident I can link up the movements with greater speed, agility, footwork, and strength. For display only it is fine to use non practical movements if they look good. Your site here is great, there are many short cuts to finding out the moves which is fantastic as it can save a lot of time, but displays of fire are not to be confused with martial arts. The days of cracking skulls with sticks and chains are mostly over now, and thankfully a new art has developed from the old, allowing people all over to find freedom,excitement, joy, relaxation, as well as a physical and mental challenge from fire spinning. Thanks for takeing the time to read my few words. I'd love to chat some more and will be here again every other day, learning new moves. Would love to hear from y'all me being so brand new to this place!All the besht for now!'nil aon tine mar do thine fein!'Karmic

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crescent blaze


member
Location: eugene, OR USA

Total posts: 7
Posted:hey has anyone ever tried a 3-sectional fire staff?

...the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles -Kerouac

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:As far as I know, there's been a lot of talk on the board every now and then about it, but no-one who has actually done it.

PS this doesn't mean no-one anywhere hads done it, just means none of the regulars here on HoP have or that I haven't read that they have...(just to cover my butt!)

Personally, I probably wouldn't use one even if I had one, the whole concept gives me the creeps


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yah, I can feel the headache already...

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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SickpuPpy


SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.

Total posts: 1100
Posted:I've been planning to build a fire three section since November, I just haven't found the time for it yet. And besides, I think my regular one has it in for me, I'm kinda nervous about setting it on fire

[ 05 April 2002, 12:18: Message edited by: SickpuPpy ]


Jesus helps me trick people.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:heehe, you woried about comitment then?

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:hey let's get medievil for M1! we'll be using one this night!click here for previous action baby! i recommend a lighter staff material as you *will* add quite a bit of extra weighting to the ends with the wicking.

fear the dangerously silly idea.
man i haven't seen Dune for days...


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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phoenix45000


newbie


Total posts: 7
Posted:Hi there,

I study (well studied) jiu-jitsu and part of this involved training with BO's and JO's which are quarterstaffs. So I often use alot of the stuff I picked up in that training.

The moves have probably got more common names but most of them are samurai techniques. For instance one I do is a series of forward uppercuts while moving forwards, which was once a technique used for mounted samurai. Looks pretty good with fire, but the length of the staff makes it tricky to pull off (it was meant mostly for naginata's or six foot long staffs)

So in answer to your question, yeah, I use martial arts stuff when I do staff!


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