Forums > Beginner Staff Moves > need help with 5 beat weave (doubles staffs)

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Blu'Firemember
17 posts
Location: Country NSW


Posted:
I'm still trying to understand the beat system, but if I do an extra half-turn on each side,,,, I get a 5 beat weave.. yes??well no, sorry about editing this, but now, when I read what I wrote, I even confuse myself, but keep reading, this thread really helps when it comes to learning how to do the two-beat and three-beat weave.[This message has been edited by Blu'Fire (edited 16 March 2002).]

Tempestaddict
522 posts
Location: Sheffield


Posted:
Hey Blu fire,I live in England, not too far away from Liverpool at the moment.On the exit of the two beat weave, try dropping the left staff low and do one extra beat with your right before continuing the two parralel staffs move. Is that two or three beat?Tempest

[Nx?]BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both


Posted:
yo,nice one blue,Reserch, how to turn between backwards and forwards fingerspinnin weave without slipping a two beat in?Love,N

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


funkenflugmember
7 posts
Location: Vienna, Austria


Posted:
Hi everybodyive just come across this thread by accident and would like to put in my two bits worth - hope it helps. 5-beat weave with doubles?? Sorry folks, i dont think this is possible at all - and even if someone should manage it, im afraid it wouldnt look smooth, so why bother? .....I know, i know - dont we all love a challenge.As for the 3-beat weave, this is another matter entirely. This can be done quite smoothly and IMHO looks really impressive.The learning process is rather simple, too!(but not easy, im afraid, and it takes some time). As Stone already said elsewhere in this thread, start by gripping your staffs at the end and do the weave.(Do yourself a favour and use rather short staffs when first trying this). This shouldnt present too much of a problem for experienced twirlers (yes, good poi-technique helps a lot here, even better yet if you have some club-swinging experience). Now while doing the weave, slowly change your grip by allowing your fingers to slip towards the center of the staffs for a few inches. Concentrate on keeping up the weaving motion you started out with pretty much undisturbed by this subtle grip-change. This is not easy at first. You will notice that the "short end" of the staffs is very much in the way, but persist and the move will get smoother rather quickly. Now when you have the basic technique down your aim is to increase little by little the "short end" of the staffs while at the same time keeping the move fluid and avoid collisions of the staffs and body hits-ouch
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(Its all in the wrists!!) When you manage to grip the staffs dead center and still weave them - success! Take a time out to pat yourself on the shoulder and then graduate to longer staffs.Speaking from experience, weaving 1.2 m doubles is perfectly possible and looks quite smooth. Im still practicing on my 1.5m performance staffs and im quite convinced ill get it to work eventually, its just a matter of time and persistent practice.Have fun trying the move!

Tempestaddict
522 posts
Location: Sheffield


Posted:
hey funken, nice to see some posts from more double staffers.I change to the end of my staffs to do weave moves quite often (usually glow not fire) but if you grip your staffs in the middle I can not see how a 3 beat weave can be achieved with doubles, without fingerspins of course. If you hold the staffs in the centre with a 1.5 metre staff you have two lengths of 0.75 metres to deal with. I am not a club swinger but I understand basic swordform. I can do 2 beat weave forwards and backwards with doubles and 3,4,5 and a dodgy 6 beat with poi but I still don't understand. ???Sorry if i'm not quite getting it but my point is - 3 beat weave is possible with poi cos you only have one end and also with clubs because you use swordform. ie you can spin the object at your side while maintaining full contact.Unless i'm mistaken, this just isnt possible with a staff (grabbed in the centre) unless you fingerspin.The two beat weave with poi and staffs look different from the side too, Poi look like they could be a staff in the dark with the ends dead opposite but staffs look like theyspin parrallel to each other - don't they?Could it be a two beat you are doing? (1 beat = 1 revolution of the staff)help?please?Can

Tempestaddict
522 posts
Location: Sheffield


Posted:
Hold on, I can do it if I change the pace of the staffs to bring each hand over on it's relative side but I mean a 3 beat with both staffs spinning consistently the same speed.Sorry,just had to clear that up.
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TEMPESTp.s. please help me - i'm so confused

JeStErSILVER Member
enthusiast
214 posts
Location: Melbourne Australia


Posted:
3 beat weaves with staffs is much easier if you have them going at the side of your body, which then means that they sin parralell to your front and back. also don't bother trying to learn the 3 beat in reverse, it's not smooth at all and requires very suple wrists.as for 5 beat weaves with staff, only possible with finger spins if put straight to the gap between pinky and ringfinger then over back of hand and back into palm and then thats only possible on one side on the body; also note: if done the same way as '5 beat' but taken from the end of a 3 beat weave it'll go up to 7 beats on 1 side of body.

Trying to play the Akashic records,
but my turntables not compatible.


CharlesBRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand


Posted:
Jester, good advice, although I would like to recommend everyone on the site to at least try every move backwards...especially as some people's "forwards" moves are actually the reverse of our own.There may be several people who learn an entirely new move or technique when attempting (or achieving) a reverse so I'd prefer not to discourage experimentation.*** Well, experimentation WITHOUT fire ***Is that ok Jester?
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------------------Charles (AKA INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggle.co.nz/fire/fire.html

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Tempestaddict
522 posts
Location: Sheffield


Posted:
Hold on!Jester - If you do aweave at the side of your body, it aint a weave, surely. To be a weave, don't you have to have both object on the same path? And if you make it 3 beat, the leading hand swaps on either side. anyone? Also, are you counting a beat for every full rotation or every time an end points down or up ie halfspins?PleASE heLp ME.. I'm Melti n g.

funkenflugmember
7 posts
Location: Vienna, Austria


Posted:
Hey Tempest, no need to despair
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First of all, im absolutely sure its a three beat im doing, cos my pattern stays essentially the same wheter the staffs are gripped dead center or at the ends.I guess your problem is that swordform (or even clubswinging) didnt prepare you for the "spare ends" you now have to deal with.So Ill try to give you a few more pointers.First of all, try the basic pattern with each hand seperatly until you can do it in your sleep.Even this is not as trivial as it might seem, cos here too the "spare end" has to be dealt with. Now take a rather short stick (Id recommend 70 to 80 cm at first), mark one end with colored tape, hold your arm out straigt in front of you (the stick is held horizontally, center grip, the marked end is the one further away from your body). Now concentrate on the half of the stick pointing away from you and begin to weave - two full revolutions on the far side (i.e. inside of your arm) cross over to the near side (outside of your arm) and make another revolution (now back again and so on...) The problem here is that as a staffer you are probably very used to the standard pattern of circles inside/outside your arm and will therfore have a tendency to cross from near to far side one revolution to early. Step on this tentency and you are halfway there.Okay, as soon as you are comfortable with this (both hands!!) try the full pattern. One stick is leading by half a revolution, and your arms cross and uncross in the typical manner of the weave (and yes, I know with the poi weave its primarily the wrists that cross, not so here. The pattern has to be played with full arm movement, use wide swings to cross over!)Once you have nailed the basic staff weave with short sticks the fun really starts. Now you can try to experiment with longer sticks/staffs and see how far you can get.As Ive posted before, 1.2m staffs dont present too much of a problem, but your scepticism towards my 1.5m staffs might be reasonable - perhaps its not possible to really weave staffs that long, although Id like to think otherwise.Have fun twirling !

CantusSILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,965 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom


Posted:
I'm confused.

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean


JeStErSILVER Member
enthusiast
214 posts
Location: Melbourne Australia


Posted:
I thought that might happen, sometimes words just don't speak the same way as actions, oh well.I classify a weave as a figure 8 pattern on it's side that goes from 1 side of the body to another. The beat system as described to me is that each time an end passes by your feet on one side, u count a beat.Fine by me Charles, I encourage experimentation to, but I just thought I'd save people some time on a move that's very awkward, on a side note i've tried doing the 3 beat weave with doubles while spinning around in continuous 360s which means you have to do the 3 beat forwards and after 180 then backwards etc: but it was a nightmare.

Trying to play the Akashic records,
but my turntables not compatible.


JeStErSILVER Member
enthusiast
214 posts
Location: Melbourne Australia


Posted:
Just double checked and I screwed up, short finger spin as described above done and the end of a three beat goes to 6 beats not 7.

Trying to play the Akashic records,
but my turntables not compatible.


Tempestaddict
522 posts
Location: Sheffield


Posted:
O.K Jester, thank you for the explanation.I understand the movement needed to execute this move but if this is gonna stay even slightly parrallel like poi stuff (or is it really different with large arm swoops), I have to pivot 180 every time I bring the other arm over.My dilema is, to execute the extra beat with my, er , lets say left hand, I have to turn my body 90 deg to the right so the staff spins almost parrallel to my chest. While I am doing this, my right hand comes up and back over to my left side again. Now, this second beat with the left hand, I must control it by pivoting at the elbow to move the staff over to the left, but because my right hand is across my body and on my left side I can't get the shoulder movement I need. Do you have to keep that extra beat close to your chest or do you push the move out so it's more organic? If I pivot with this - I can repeat with the right and gather some kind of flow but it definatley opened upa couple of new ideas.I experiment with poi and staff when I wanna work some things out so I went down this route. I stillgotta do quite extreme pivoting to get any flow whichever hand the staff is in - is this what you mean or will it straighten up eventually?At the moment the reverse weave flows a little better then the forward for me, guess i'm just more familiar with the extra beat on the other side but apart from aiming the staff up a little.Cantus, you still confused?I hope not cos I might just need your cranium as well for this one.TEMPESTP.S. cheers jester - i smacked my keyboard and now my bloody space bar is playing up.
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Tempestaddict
522 posts
Location: Sheffield


Posted:
Jester,you still there?TEMPEST

JeStErSILVER Member
enthusiast
214 posts
Location: Melbourne Australia


Posted:
Not quite sure if I understand quite what your getting at, Maybe you could rephrase?But if it's how to get the 3 beat weave then start with forwards 2 beat weave, as in having the thumb end of the staff leading? When the staff is behind your back allow an extra half rotation which means that it is now the pinky finger end which 1st crosses back over to the front of your body. This will automatically create the extra half beat in front before your go behind your back again.Did that help?
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on all sides------------------Everyday life is only an illusion, behind which lies the reality of dreams.

Trying to play the Akashic records,
but my turntables not compatible.


Tempestaddict
522 posts
Location: Sheffield


Posted:
Jester, I think we have our wires crossed, I am trying to execute a 3 beat weave with staffs, identical to the poi equivalent. This means that no staffs should move behind me, but should be kept infront of my body at all times during this move.Just to clear this up- 2 beat weave - both staffs on the same path like 2 scalectric cars on the same track! This can be done with either hand on top/leading3 beat weave - a constant flow between both 2 beat weaves. Left hand does one beat (or revolution) on the left and two beats on the right, right hand does one beat on the right and two on the left. Each hand takes the lead when on its respective side and at no point are the staffs seperated.Sorry, my last post was supposed to be directed at FUNKENPLUG (from the previous page) although I would appreciate help from anyone. pretty please.
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I can manage a fairly smooth 3 beat weave with one poi and one staff but am having great trouble with two staffs.
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IS THIS POSSIBLE?
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Where are you cantus, I need your brain too.TEMPEST

funkenflugmember
7 posts
Location: Vienna, Austria


Posted:
Hi Tempest,yeah, Im still there. But by now I must tell you Im pretty confused myself. According to your description of the 3-beat weave in your latest post we seem to be doing the same thing (Ive had my doubts, I confess!). Now Im trying to figure out where your problems come from, since the move works fine for me. For one thing, why do you think any pivoting is necessary?? I watched myself doing the move and I found I dont really pivot at all. There is a pronounced and constant up and down movement of the shoulders and Ive found I lean forwards a bit to give the staffs more clearance and reduce the risk of bodyhits. When done right, the staffs miss each other and my body by mere inches, but the move works - I can assure you TEMPEST. You tell me the move works for you when using one staff and one poi, so I gather you must be doing something right. So what is different when you try it with two staffs? Do your staffends collide - or do you experience frequent bodyhits? Or is it something else altogether? Maybe I would be better able to help you out if I knew the exact nature of your problems. Best regards Funkenflug

Tempestaddict
522 posts
Location: Sheffield


Posted:
Hey funken,I explained the problem in my post on 8 march. I can't get the shoulder movement with the hand that is doing the second beat because my other hand has to come over it and across my body. Do I have to make a larger swooping movement when I bring the leading edge over my hand doing the extra beat because that hand pivots from the elbow and not the wrist.I will keep trying different things, I just had to make sure that it was possible before I go too mad trying something that ain't.Thank you funkenflug.

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