Forums > Beginner Staff Moves > Helicopter staff moves (horizontal spins)...

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:I've finally admitted a big gap in my repoitre which is that of using HELICOPTER spins more often. Normally, I need to be thinking about HELICOPTERS to put them into a routine, as when on autopilot, I regress back to ROTORS (vertical spins) and find it hard to break out of them again.I have a couple of helicopter moves, one is like the CORKSCREW. By HELICOPTERING above my head, then bring it down in front of me and lift up over my head again. I exaggerate how dangerous it is by pulling my abs in (well, stomach really) and jumping backwards when it spins in front of me. Tends to get a few gasps and murmurs from the crowd, coz they think I almost burnt myself (hee hee). Been working on the HEADSPIN for a long time now and can still only do three spins max, one on average.Does anyone have any HELICOPTER moves they would like to share, or hints on learning new ones (especially headspins)?
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------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz


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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:yeah, its nice and slow for a beat, and easy to spin fast off.About this 4 beat corkscrew. I can get the extra turn at the bottom (weedwhaker stylee)but not another at the top, my thumb gets in the way. should I tuck it under or what?Its all about sharing and learning. gift economy. s'cool.
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This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:I have to admit *blush*, that I don't know what a weedwhacker move is, although I've got a fairly good idea...--<maybe>--As for your thumb getting in the way, can you do a thumb roll? That would be the simplest fix, I.E if it's getting in the way, use it!I'll wait til I undertand a bit more before I continue my waffling though (mmm waffles...)------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz

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Posted:weedwacker is actually in Xaeda's staff mvoes videos.its an inverted heli in front of the body.ie your hands go down to it from above the staff which is spinning in front of your body. I think its a relatively important move for heli stuff.Josh

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:Ooh, ooh. That's the basis for one of my throws:I do a weedwhacker (although i don't like that word) then take it round my legs (CW if I'm doing it righthanded, CCW if left). When it's round the back, a flick of the wrist sends it through my legs to the front where I catch it with my other hand. On into a figure 8 (or whatever)

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:yo,thumbspin? hummmmmmmmmmmI can do it using a palm spin but how do you get it yound your thumb without it running off down your arm and hittin you inna head?Nix?

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:In Front waist pass (sorry, this is a bit of a cluncky descripting, but well worth deciphering...)lets say you start by coming out of a behind the neck pass (number 7 in [Josh]'s list above), spinning CW heli, so your taking the staff off your right shoulder with your left hand.(the middle is a few inches up from your thumb)now start reaching, left hand goes out to the left, then round BEHIND THE BACK, so that it ends up at the right side of the body touching the side of your waist. Its done one full turn to get down there.when it gets there, let the staff go with a bit of a push, so it wraps around your belly (don't be tubby). the middle of the staff will pass pretty close to your belly button.meantime right hand has gone beind the back to the same position on the left side, ready for the catch. right hand mirrors the way the left had came in, to carry the staff with one turn out to the right, then the front. {you got to have been a poi waistwrapper to come up with this baby, wasn't me, I just play it}After, can go for another neck wrap, or above the head stuff.remember keep it smooth, or as [josh] puts it efficiency of groovement. (that is a phat expression, nice one J)christ I've got to get a digi cam before I decide to write another one of these.lots of gloves GlassWarm up first...

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Posted:That is one nice move Glass!Wish I had my staff here at work
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So to clarify...This move is a bit like a partly thrown 'full nelson' pass (ala http://www.homeofpoi.com/xaeda/staff16.htm)
around the waist?Josh


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Vik
member
Location: Queensland, Australia
Member Since: 12th Nov 2001
Total posts: 21
Posted:I'm not sure if these will b of use Charles cuz i use really short staffs, hip bone height (what do you guys refer to them as?)..Im pretty new to HOP so i havn't got the jargon down but i'll do my best to explain..SPINNING BODY HELPS ALOT
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Helicoptering above your head can b made easier if you turn your body at the same time (running it through your fingers or hand over hand).. once practiced enuff if gets really really smooth and when you feel you're running out of momentum you spin your body in the other direction (but keep the stick spinning the same way) It feels awsomely smooth and keeps the stick goin really fast. To pratice the above your head move without the risk of dropping it on your head, doing a horizontal near your feet (through fingers or hand over hand) Once that moves feels fluent you can drop it level withyour head on one side back to top then drop it to the other side- if you're spinning your body it will start to feel really good. with two sticks doing double helicopter while running in a really small circle looks nuts (keep palms up the whole time and alternate between above and below your head)- this one might even work with 2 long staffs not sure) a freind can do this extremely fast with one staff, one hand ends up on the ground as the pivot point and it's a crazy blurr for the onlookers
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Im trying to master the double horizontal throw and catch, i tell you it's alot harder than just one (and why is it horizontal throws are so scary to get under?!?!) any advice with this one?Cheerz Vik


vik... dreaming with 2 stars **

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:hi,doing spinning jumps with the staff aternating between over the head and below are really good fun
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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:[josh]ow booger This is not easy. Right, I'm assuming that your behind the neck pass above, is the same as Xaeda's full nelson lesson video pass.Watch the neck nelson vid, but instead of doing the move reaching from the front behind your neck, do it reaching from the back so that you pass across your belly.and its not thrown, its rolled, this is the wonderful world of contact staff.or This won't help.... If the staff and the arms were doing the same neck move, in the same place, relative to an absolute frame of refence but you were levitating upside down with your feet pointing vertically, and facing in the opposite direction. that would be the huckleberry. (arse 3D spacial awareness arse, I seen to have clearly demonstrated that some moves are difficult to write. arse.) Ok this isn't clear, I'm going to try to borrow a digi cam, and try to film this tomorrow, But how do I post it so that you can watch it???Cheers Glass[This message has been edited by glass (edited 20 November 2001).]

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Vik
member
Location: Queensland, Australia
Member Since: 12th Nov 2001
Total posts: 21
Posted:Nix, is that jumping over the staff when you go below? so far i'm only game to try that with a pool noodle :PVik

vik... dreaming with 2 stars **

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:LOLLord No!leave that sorta stuff to xeadia
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not, you jump as the staff comes over your head, feels really nice..... <ummmmmmmm, staaaaaaaaafffffff>x


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Vik
member
Location: Queensland, Australia
Member Since: 12th Nov 2001
Total posts: 21
Posted:ahmkay.. now ya tell me *rubbing bruised shins*.. hehewhen you land the jump crouch down and pull the staff around your back and come out of it kinda like the motion in xeda's last demonstration (the one wit' da cool long name i can never remember)Vik

vik... dreaming with 2 stars **

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:cool,I normally let it fly off into the left hand and out.x

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Hitokage
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Location: New York, NY, USA
Member Since: 20th Oct 2001
Total posts: 70
Posted:I assume everyone already knows this one...or at least I did assume it, because I noticed that I haven't seen it anywhere on HoP. I guess it's just because this was one of the first "helicoptor" / horizontal moves I learned. Well, we all know what happens when one assumes! Oh, and so you know...this is always the crowd's favorite for me (except for fireballs, of course). Well...here it goes: Start with a one-handed (right hand) helicopter / weedwhacker. If looking at the staff from above, it is spinning in a clockwise direction. during one of the "weedwhacker" parts, bend over/squat (make sure you bend your knees). Keep doing the one handed helicopter / weedwhacker, but this time, instead of bringing the head of the staff down (back into the weedwhacker), let it spin on top again. While it is doing this, swing your arm out to the right, and the behind you (you really have to bend over/squat for this one). Exchange hands behind your back, at your butt. This sounds strange, but imagine the exchange as your butt looking at the top side of your wrists (to compare the time...because you have a watch on each wrist...I dunno!). Continue the movement, just with your left hand. Because you exchanged hands, the tail of the staff will now lead. Continue bringing your arm around front, and you can do a one-handed (left hand) helicopter / weedwhacker combo like before. I usually exchange my hands again while in front, and I repeat the whole thing over and over again.This move is actually a horizontal adaptation of what was taught to me as the "around the world". I believe it is Xaeda's #4 video in the instructional section of HoP.Now--practice it, and try to make it look good. I usually shift my balance (very exaggerated) away from where the staff is, which I think looks best. I lean (a lot) to the left at the beginning, then smoothly switch my weight to the right during the move. Oh, and keep in mind that it takes a lot of practice to really get the staff horizontal. It's a fairly easy move to do, and it doesn't require much flexibility at all. Getting the staff to always spin horizontal is another story, however. I've seen many people ruin the full effect of this move because they let the staff spin at a 45 angle instead of a 0/180 angle (horizontal).One more thing--this move can also be adapted to be completely behind the back. It's like doing a pinwheel, just horizontal. This one's really hard to keep horizontal.------------------"Burning--the process of breaking things down into a simpler form." -Hitokage---FireStorm---(jimidawg@snet.net)

Live as if you were to die tomorrow, learn as if you were to live forever -Mahatma Ghandi

Burning--the process of breaking things down into a simpler form. -Hitokage-

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:So, Hitokage, what your basically saying is do a BTB Helicopter Pass.
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------------------C@ntusDance beneath the stars, we sound system, we the collective, with a open heart, we the solution - should be respected![This message has been edited by Cantus (edited 22 November 2001).]


"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Durbs
Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 5688
Posted:Sorry to be thick - i'm just starting this - but are Staffs and Staves the same thing spelt differently?------------------http://welcome.to/thehugbubble I have only one burning desire....let me stand next to your fire

Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
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Posted:As far as I know staves are short staffs. Alhough everyone has their own names for stuff.

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Posted:I always thought staves was plural for staff
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eh.ummm...and about the heliBTBpass->heliBTHpass move..I find its nice to do it with palm spins in there to slow it down - you get more spins per pinwheel that way.It also looks nicest when you pay attention to the rest of your body while doing it...ie dont just let your other arm dangle all over the place...watch your foot/leg position etc etc
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Josh


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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:YoI just want to say that because of this board I have at last got the hele/waistwrap smooth, twas a trick I had all but abandoned. Also, in the circles II preview, xeadia does a really hice transition roter to helle around the back, I can get it going but she sort of leans the staff out first and I cant seem to figure this out.I can see Im going to have to start streaching thoes hamstrings.Np.s. there is a singular 'stave' and its a short one, I always thought, but I cant actually be bothered to look it up. xx

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:Is the plural of staff not staffs? Staves would surely be the plural of stave.

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Posted:http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=stavesseems
to imply the two are interchangable.a short staff is a short staff...<shrugs>Dictionary.com doesnt seem to differentiate.Josh


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Charles
Charles

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Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:I say, in short to stave off saying staves unless they are short...Or something like that
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------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz


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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
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Posted:Oops, Charles has been skipping his medication again....

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:That means, if they are short, they are staves, if they are long, they are staffs, in my own opinion.for the record, have a look at rave, poi and doof on dictonary.com and tel me how correct they are in your own uses of the words...
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(And I take my medication every month, thank you very much, even if the doctor keeps telling me I'm supposed to take it daily...)
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------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz


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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Stave. I was also wondering about this one, because to my mind a stave sounds like something you would use to hold up a fence. So, its Friday arvo and I looked it up. Staff (plural staffs, staves) a stick, pole, rod or wand used for a walking aid (LOL), also used for climbing or martial arts. Stave a stick, pole, rod, or the like. Incidentally, "Stave-off" means to "keep-off " by force (synonym "F-off", not in dictionary).So, Charles was that an executive policy decision on size? I'm happy to use stave = short staff, and staffs as the plural for long staffs. We just have to agree. Err, but what's short? One metre? AliG thinks 14" is short
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If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
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Posted:Thanks for clarifying that for us thick ones Charles. I never would've decifered your words to mean what you meant simply by reading them....Every Roman soldier carried a single stave with him. When they made camp they hammered these into the ground in a x pattern to form a fence.100,000 soldiers = 50,000 x's = one big, nasty, pointy fence.

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Hitokage
member
Location: New York, NY, USA
Member Since: 20th Oct 2001
Total posts: 70
Posted:Yes, that is the second thing I described. It's just like a pinwheel, only horizontal. My favorite move, however is the first one, the BTB helicopter pass to the weedwhacker and back again.------------------"Burning--the process of breaking things down into a simpler form." -Hitokage---FireStorm---(jimidawg@snet.net)

Live as if you were to die tomorrow, learn as if you were to live forever -Mahatma Ghandi

Burning--the process of breaking things down into a simpler form. -Hitokage-

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:Being a muppet I checked out this pice of tedious semantics recently...Staff for which the plural is StaffsStave has the plural StavesTheres nothing about length in the Oxford English Dictionary. simply it is that one of the meanings of stave is staff.Theres no diffence (according to OED) in length or anything else.But it implys that if you call it a staff, you would probably call lots of them staffs (and staves for stave).Cricky, I thought this was a technical discussion about movesNow quit yakking and get back to playing with your sticks.yours boringlyGlass

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
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Posted:Well done in turning it seemlessly back to a moves discussion there Glass. A lesser person would simply have changed the subject back but you added to the aimless wonderings. Before complaining at us. Nice touch.Anyway, if we hadn't wasted our time with the discussion, poor Durbs would still be out there, lonely, lost and alone. Not knowing what staves are. Whereas, now, he can rest. Safe in the knowledge that we're not entirely sure either. But we think it has something to do with sticks.....
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------------------C@ntusDance beneath the stars, we sound system, we the collective, with a open heart, we the solution - should be respected![This message has been edited by Cantus (edited 25 November 2001).]


"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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