Forums > Beginner Staff Moves > Double staff starter, full trick list ect...

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[Nx?]BRONZE Member
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Location: Europe,Scotland,Both


Posted:
Yo peeps,Well I finally got a nameI smacked myself in the wrist yesterday and although its nice out side I cant play :-) So, instead I thought id list all the staff moves I know for you. This should get the basics down and then the list can be added to as people develop more tricks. Cool?First of course is figure eights these can be done in sync (one hand making forward 8s whilst the other goes backward) and counter-flow (cant think of a good term) where both hands are doing the same thing either alternate sides of the body or together, like a butterfly.I cannot transition directly from sync to counter-flow but within those two categories there are a heap of stuff. Also, with both its very easy to pirouette and feels great!In sync:1 learn the extra half-twist on the forward figure8, then you can (with one stick) spin backwards from hand side to opposite back to hand and then behind you for 1.5 spins bringing back up to backwards and repeat. (if all else fails just move around with the stick for a while putting the half-twist in where you can)In sync time you can do this with both hands alternately, so that the sticks follow each other round the body, reverse and go back and can be turned into a pirouette too.2. Continuous aerials. The backward spinning staff is thrown whilst the forward is swapped behind the back and repeat. Easier than it sounds, a full description can be found on the double staff aerials thread.3. windmills and corkscrews, round the world. All basically the same trick and all come from poi, there is a crazy double corkscrew post but I cant figure it out.In counter flow:Pirouettes: bit more scary in counter flow, staves recommended. Cant actually pirouette when the sticks are spinning on the same side of my body but you can turn butterflies cant you? so it must be possible I guess1: the half twist comes in useful here too, in counter flow, facing one way is always forwards and the other is backwards, and when facing forwards the twist can either be used alternatively, which feels great or to make a 3 beat butterfly, which is tiring. 2: the only aerials I have for counter flow is the straight vertical swap mentioned in the previous thread where backwards running staffs are passed in front of each other simultaneously to opposite hands. (this makes them transition to forward spinning staff btw)3: In Backwards Alternate counter-flow (humm, getting a terminology? Still dont like counter-flow) you can horosontalize the staffs for a nice feeling cross corkscrew type thingTransitions!So, how do we get between all of these little trick and places. Obviously from forward to backward alternate is just a turn but what about from alternate to simultaneous? When going forwards alternate the trick is to slip a two finger spin into the action with one hand whilst the other moves normally. I think there are quicker or more complicated finger spins to do it but I aint worked them out yet (woulda but for this hand, humm) and anyway, finger spins are a whole other thing.From the top of a forward butterfly you can make half turn and arrive in sync, similarly you can do a half turn in sync and with a little angling be in backwards simultaneous counter-flow. This is made easier if you can finger spin, so I move on.Finger spins!Really really really useful to know with staffs as it can instantly double up almost all of your tricks. Especially to learn to go between forward and reverse finger spinning continuously (720 degrees on each side) I find it especially fun with the butterfly, reverse finger spinning in the butterfly and forward at the top, high in the air.The end! Thanks for reading it, sorry if its too long or garbled, ask for clarification if you want. The aim here is not to blow my own trumpet but learn more, so I you have anything to add, please do.Cya!Nix

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


CantusSILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,965 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom


Posted:
Right double corkscrew. It seems only Josh and I can do these. Have you seen the corkscrew move in the staff lessons section? It's that. Simple.
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As to the rest of your post I suggest you read the naming staff moves thread (I'll bump it for you) and then redefine some of the trickier bits in the terms listed therein. I'm not being nasty but if you go shifting the goalposts now how are we going to keep playing?Try not to use poi terms when describing stuff either we are trying to form our own art here not borrow off what has gone before
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Thanx------------------C@ntus

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean


[Nx?]BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both


Posted:
Oh, one more thingJust worked out that you can transition between sync and cross flow just by turning by 90 degrees and angling out/in to arrive a simultainious cross flow. That helps. Humm..NIx

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


CharlesBRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand


Posted:
Hi Nix. Looks like we are on a similar wavelength, as Cantus has already alluded to (thanks Cantus) although my thread is just a basic breakdown of the moves (read all the disclaimers about me trying to help staffers and not look like a Nazi) and should be able to describe doubles just as much as singles (fingers crossed).The PIROUETTE with doubles I find very easy, I merely hold my arms out straight and do tiny tiny FIGURE-8'S by swivelling my wrist up and down. This is a great way to speed up the staffs and usually how I put the flames out after a burn with doubles...Thanks for getting all this down and please keep the list going. It looks like staff is going to be a mainstay on the BB for a while again!
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------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz

HoP Posting Guidelines
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CantusSILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,965 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom


Posted:
So the fact that you really look like a Nazi is just a coincidence then is it Charles?
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"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean


AnonymousPLATINUM Member


Posted:
Id like to point out, that doubles can be treated exactly like poi when doing some tricks - think low turn, high turn, butterfly, figure eight, corkscrew etc. You just have to pick an end and then push those ends along the path you would to do the poi move and you've got it.
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Josh

CharlesBRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand


Posted:
Hmm, Hanz the Nazi clown...(looks thoughtful)Thank you Cantus. You've just inspired a new persona for me.I could, like, make swastikas out of balloons, juggle with truncheons and teach all the children to goosestep...(gets lost in a disturbing world of some sort)...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nzPS Josh, how do you do a butterfly with staffs, surely the rotation of the string is what makes a butterfly work? I can do simultaneous FIGURE 8's that have one short 1/2 spin in front hat looks like a butterfly, but surely it can't (oops) surely it VERY HARD to do...[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 05 November 2001).]

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
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CantusSILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,965 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom


Posted:
Right, take your poi (and knowing what the bloody tricks are called) and stick it #######sideways up your ################## with a jar of ######## pickles and a ########### bucket of soapy frogs!------------------C@ntus

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean


CharlesBRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand


Posted:
Hmmm, I guess I'm no longer one of Cantus's inspirations (shrug) ah well.A great doubles move I have is a simple NECKROLL with one staff while doing FIGURE 8's. Its easier than it sounds and the crowds love it.(PS the Nazi clown thing was a joke, I forgot to put the
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after it, sorry Cantus.------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?


AnonymousPLATINUM Member


Posted:
oooohhh! I found Cantus' sore spot!
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hehe - you obviously dont know the joys of fire tool cross-polination...Josh

CantusSILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,965 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom


Posted:
My dearest Charles, I have no problem with Nazis (well actually i have one massive problem with Nazis. The only good Nazi etc)But I understood you were joking. Thanx for taking time to explain it to me tho.And you're still inspirational. Why did you think you weren't?
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You're all inspirational in different ways. Even
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.. . . Josh!------------------C@ntus

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,830 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Hi guys, I probably missed something in the staff naming thread/s, but I'm a bit confused by the use of the term pirouette in relation to staff/s. Could someone point me in the right direction? LMAO Cantus, I sympathise with you, and learning all that poi nomenclature. I submitted to the pressure and took up poi so I could figure out what every one on HOP was talking about. Luckily, many poi moves are transferable to staff, and just to confuse things a bit more, a lot of the transition moves a well documented in club swinging. Anyone got any tips for doing butterflies with double staffs???
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If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


AnonymousPLATINUM Member


Posted:
Butterfly with doubles..If you are talking about more than one rep, do fingerspins...I find it a bit dificult to do without a bit of clashing..and I hate clashing
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but its definitely possible.what problems have you had?Josh

AnonymousPLATINUM Member


Posted:
piroette, same as ballet (thank Charles
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) a 360 degree body spin. nufin to do with the staff(s) AFAIK.Josh

StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,830 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Thanks Josh, finger spin butterflies sound like a good idea. Pirouette = 360 degree body spin, no probs
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If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


CantusSILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,965 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom


Posted:
I tried doing poi when i first started doing double staff. As I thought i wouldn't be able to advance in doubles without it.But they poi i made were from the very bowels of hell. And they began a vengeful pursuit of my death. I like staffs. You know where you are with staffs. At no point, when you're spinning your staffs, do you look to see where one is and the other one sneaks up behind you and
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wraps itself round your neck.It's one of the plus points of staffs, no potential for strangulation.------------------C@ntus

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean


[Nx?]BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both


Posted:
Yo guys...How do you do this neckroll charles? hoisontally or vertically?Finger spinning butterflys are not too hard, secret is to keep the staffs at an angle to each other. can do it in both directions. if you dont like fingerspins when the staffs are running simultaioius forward you add a half-twist (is ist int the nomalacture? i forget) and that puts an extra 1/2 turn on the butterfly. rise it up and shoot it out, good for the shoulders.Learned some more stuff over the last couple of days. today I cracked moving from simultainious forward to backward by turning 180 degrees. Only works if you transition as the staffs are going to move front to back. You can still transition when the staffs are behind you but youll end up going the same direction when you turn round.practice going from cross-flow to sync and back, turning toward the backwards spinning hand to go into forwards cross flow and toward the forward spinning hand for backwards.humm, sounds hellishly complicated. this is just the way I learned it today. Ill have a play tomorow and try for a simpler description.Ohh yes, another move for Alternated Backwards cross flow. quite simple, as the sticks come forward infront of the body swing them in big circles of the same direction. This is simalar to round the world but is cross-flow. the effect is to make a staff-length circle above your head pinweeling at the top of a larger arm+staff length circle across your body.got that? humm not all that articulate today. Glad to see the post running off. cheers guys....nIx?

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


CantusSILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,965 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom


Posted:
Katinca has suggested i do something poi related but I have hit upon a snag with that plan. The poi i made (and that subsequently tried to do me harm) after our last struggle went bye-bye. To whit, I am unsure what i did with them.I have a strange feeling that the words "shallow" and "grave" might be apt for their location.Has any one got a shovel i can borrow?------------------C@ntus[This message has been edited by Cantus (edited 08 November 2001).]

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean


CharlesBRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand


Posted:
Stone- One pirouette is the same as a 360, although in retrospect, it might be easier to call it a pirouette from now on, at least everyone will know what it means right away...Nix. I prefer the NECKROLL to be horizontal, left side of neck to right side if neck, with my right hand (good hand).I've done it vertically too, and it doesn't seem any harder. It's just a simple matter of keeping the other staff out of harms way, i.e. straightened elbow on left arm, to stop them clashing.Come to think about, thats just a general rule for doubles, methinks...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?


AnonymousPLATINUM Member


Posted:
nix,when you say cross flow do you mean something like the poi chase? when you say going from fwds to bkwds by turning 180 degrees, do you mean the Staves are going fwds and then by turning your body 180 degrees the staves are going in rvs?having reviewed your post again, I really wish I knew what you meant by cross flow...Josh

[Nx?]BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both


Posted:
yo josh,errm, cross-flow is a really bad term, and any better would be of help. what I mean is that from the outside the staffs are spinning in opposite directions(in or out hence cross-flow) but from the staffers point of veiw the sticks are actually doing the same thing, ie forward or backward figure 8's either alternate sides of the body or the front and back at the same time, both cross-flow. Like I said, terrible term.is there something like this in poi? (spode youd just call it butterfly or reverse or whatever, their much more used to thease things.) The other thing Ive been trying on the doubles and only just remembered is the weave, with the sticks crossed at 90 degrees (like an x), I dont think Ive cracked getting a full weave but its sinning either side of the body. I guessed that the normal poi weave wouldent word as the pois follow each other and youd end up moving both stacks as one. Anyone else?LoveNiX

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


[Nx?]BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both


Posted:
LOLopps, spelling....that will teach me for trying to write posts at quarter to two in the morning. ;-)X(did some fire tonight, yumyumyum)

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


AnonymousPLATINUM Member


Posted:
yeah I can do a weave with doubles...but I find it far less clunky if I use finger spins to delay the crossing over phases.Josh

AnonymousPLATINUM Member


Posted:
BTW Nix, what you describe in the last part of your long post...big circles in rvs cross flow (I know what you mean by that now) thats called a flourish in baton twirling. So really, that move is a double alternate direction rvs figure eight with flourish. I personally think it should have a combo name.Its quite a common combo - and looks great.works well with the fingerspin butterfly we were discussing earlier in this thread.Josh

CantusSILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,965 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom


Posted:
Oh for f.......*goes to look up all the poi terms------------------C@ntus

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean


AnonymousPLATINUM Member


Posted:
Sorry Cantus, but to describe how to do a 3-beat weave with doubles is a bit beyond my skills...go look at the 3-beat weave (poi) tutorial, and then imagine that each poi is a staff. I think its a technically difficult move (of the 4 or 5 decent doubles twirlers I've seen, I've not seen them do it). but with the finger spins it is significantly easier.MAN! I'm HANGINGOUT for FIRE tonight! ARGH!Josh

CantusSILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,965 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom


Posted:
I still dont understand it. I cant figure out how that would work with staffs.I'm a little shaky on how it works with balls on strings as well.It's the move my friend (a 3 year veteran of Poi) did when I let her use one of my staffs. She tried to make me do it but i just got confused. She was spinning the staff like in that little picture and then she changed direction without missing a beat. She said it was "simple".I just can't figure that out.I've decided I'm scared of poi
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------------------C@ntus

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,830 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Great thread, but I'm having a bit of trouble wading through all the terminology. So, it's back to the the practic yard tonight
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Don't sweat it Cantus you can learn the weave with sticks. As posted by Protozoa: https://www.calefaction.org/teach/weave.htmlAnother
good link for tips on poi,weaves and crossovers etc is: https://www.geocities.com/firepoi/index_css.html

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


[Nx?]BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both


Posted:
I think the thing i wanna get straight here is that when you wanna do the eweave with doubles you actually want them to form a cross right? not like with pois because they just look like one staff, as in the link above?I have begun to get the begging of the weave like this today, but I can only make it work with reverse finger spinning, which I only learned last week so still not too confident.I think the theory goes a little something like this (runns off and practices)Whoooo hooo!!!!! crackeds it!(note to self, the combination of playing and pizza produces a very greasy stick)yeah, well...lets take it from the right to the left forwards:holding the sticks in a cross the right hand is above the left and comes down (thumb first) to the left hand side followed by the left stick. Here's the inportant bit, the right hand is on the outside, the furthest from you and performs a one finger backwards finger spin (a half turn) whilst the left hand comes over the right and down to the right. repeat the process, remember the arm that has come across is the furthest out and has one fingerspin, the other simply moves over and begins the next side.is this what your onnabout?do peaple know what I mean? seems to work.ixn?[This message has been edited by Nix? (edited 09 November 2001).]

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


[Nx?]BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,749 posts
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both


Posted:
yup, thats it, tottally nailed it today, forward and back, turning between is still a problem tho...x?

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti


CantusSILVER Member
Tantamount to fatuity
15,965 posts
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom


Posted:
*BUMP*[This message has been edited by Cantus (edited 02 December 2001).]

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean


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