Forums > Beginner Staff Moves > Naming Staff Moves II (Every staffer please help)

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Lets have some more discussions and suggestions moving along because I've been a bit slack getting online lately, mainly due to summer coming up and having lots more gigs (three seperate gigs just last week!).So I have been neglecting the staff moves project and I'd like some more input form everyone like last time...***Please note, this attempt to name moves is to help the articulation of text-based staff moves which is one of the reasons staff is having trouble getting discussed regularly on HoP.This is to (hopefully) start the building blocks of a common language to try to make staffing easier to learn and discuss in a textbased format.If you don't like the name of a move but understand what it is, please let it lie, otherwise this will just become a series of in-fights, and will not be constructive at all. Thanking you in advance... ***The following moves have been discussed and suggested on http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000322.html
with some history too. Please read through if you haven't already.----------Staff Movements----------------* HELICOPTER = A horizontal spin in the same space, usually above the head.* ROTOR = Any vertical spin that stays in one space. Same as HELICOPTER, but perpindicular to the ground.* 1/2SPIN = Where the staff has only spun 180, this is regardless of any other motions or actions.* FULLSPIN/DOUBLESPIN/TRIPLESPIN/ 1/4SPIN ETC= As above, 1 spin is a complete rotation and the rest as they apply.* FIGURE 8 = To do a 1/2SPIN on you left and right side with the path crossing directly in fron of you. A trail from the centre of the staff would make a sideways figure 8 wrapped around you.* SIDEWAYS FIGURE 8 = A FIGURE 8 where the 1/2SPINS are in front and behind you, instead of on either side.* POP = Simple flat throw into the air, horizontal without spinning unless otherwise stated.* OVERHEAD POP = Flat throw from the front and caught behind or from behind and caught in front.* CLOCKWISE = The spin of the staff in relation to the front of the staffer* ANTICLOCKWISE = Reverse of clockwise, or same direction but behind your back rather than in front.----------Manipulation Movements----------* FINGERSPIN = To roll the staff through your fingers one-by one, keeping the staff stationary and spinning in a ROTOR or HELICOPTER.*** please note, FINGERSPINS do not need to travel along all five fingers, but the end action where the staff wraps under or over the hand to begin the motion again is seen as the end, not the beginning**** PINKYSPIN = FINGERSPIN that begins with the pinky, and then to the ring finger, index finger and so on. * THUMBSPIN = Same as PINKYSPIN, but starting form the thumb and then traveling along the pointing finger, index finger and so on.* FORWARDS = To lead a movement or spin with the thumb on the leading part of the staff. As in slicing a sword down diagonally in front of you.* BACKWARDS = Same as FORWARDS, but with the pinky on the leading part of the staff.* FORWARDS FIGURE 8 = To lead with the thumb-half of the staff when doing a figure eight.* HANDWRAP = To release the staff while spinning it so that it rolls over or under your hand and then cathing it again. Often used during FINGERSPINS to keep the staff centred.* STALL = I'd like some more feedback on this, but would prefer a stall to be any move that stops the spin completely.* FOOTSTALL = Horizontal catch or movement with the staff stationary and horizontal on your foot for at least one milliheartbeat.* FOOTBALANCE = Balancing the staff on one end (preferably without fire) on your foot for at least one milliheartbeat* TOOTHGRAB = Any STALL or move where the staff is held by the mouth/teeth/TONGUE!!! etc. People like myself who experiment with moves like this should prepare themselves for ridicule...* TUCK = Like an underarm roll. To swing the staff under your armpit, either to catch it there or as part of another move.* PALMSPIN = To spin the staff in a flat palm, without using the fingers.* BACKSPIN = To spin the staff on the hollow of your back without using hands or arms.* "insert body part here"SPIN = To spin the staff on your "IBPH" without using hands or arms.-----------Body Movements------------------* 180 = Half-rotation of entire body (usually using feet)* 360 = Full-rotation of body * 45,90,270 = Well, you get the idea, aye?* LEFT-TWIST = swiveling at the waist 90 degrees to your left* RIGHT-TWIST = swiveling at the waist 90 degrees to your right* LEFT-TWIST[45][20][180!] etc = Swiveling the appropriate number of degrees, also includes RIGHT-TWISTS.***Any move calling for 180 or more should put an "!" after it, coz its very hard to do!***That's most of them so far, could a couple of peeps see if they can use the terms to describe some of the movies in the Video-Section.Cheers------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 08 October 2001).][This message has been edited by Charles (edited 09 October 2001).]


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Posted:Hey Pele,I guess this is the post you are talking about? I'll reply to you
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I suggested two moves.1)yep its a neck wrap, but I do it with 1/2 a PIROETTE while the staff is balanced on the back of my neck (for kicks
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)2)after half a neck wrap I do a chin pinch, then use my neck muscles to reverse the direction so it spins back over the neck and back to its original position. Problem is that you can burn yourself in the neck / face / head if you stuff up the reversal chin / neck pinch.I think if I were spinning fast, I'd do it as a plain wrap to maintain the power.and yes - that neck front circle is rockin.I like the idea of the neck catch - > roll down the back -> down the back of the leg and then a soccer like kick to pop it back up over the head to the front of the body, shouldnt be too hard to do in bare feet as your heel would act as a ramp to help launch the staff.HTh,Josh


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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Friggin eck! I better get practicing before the NZ convention if you guys are all doing this stuff.(runs off desperately to grab his staffs, then realises he's at work)...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:Don't let that stop you Charles.I don't think practice is in order. I think we should just kill Josh.
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------------------C@ntus


"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Posted:B!tches.I'm not as good as it might seem like I am from my posts
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Josh


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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:now if only we lived in Japan, then we could trap him in a little ball thingee and steal all his powers...
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------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz


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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:
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Hey have you noticed how the true way (staff) has taken over the Moves board. The top several threads are all about the good stuff
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------------------C@ntus


"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:It's almost as if someone was bumping these threads in an effort to opress the evil Poi.But who would do such a thing......*looks wistful*------------------C@ntus

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Evil poi! *hit, they are virtually extinct now.Have you seen the thread saying that there are waaaaay to many staff threads and not enough poi ones?I think we need to coax them back out with food or soemthing, so we can ahve some competition...

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:I saw that yes. I also noticed that I lined up all the lovely staff threads and them someone came along and put some poi threads into the middle.------------------C@ntus

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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jedimastah
member
Location: Round Rock TX , US
Member Since: 18th Aug 2001
Total posts: 97
Posted:Hey I have some really neat moves you might like but I am going to put them on the NEW Staff Moves Forum. OK
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OH and by the way I think that the parts of the staff reletive to where you are holding them should be named. Say you are holding your staff on any part. The part steming from your thumb should be called "the front end," and the part steming from your pinky should be called "the back end." Yes? No? Maybe? I don't know? [This message has been edited by jedimastah (edited 09 November 2001).]


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jedimastah
member
Location: Round Rock TX , US
Member Since: 18th Aug 2001
Total posts: 97
Posted:Why not name the parts of the staff reletive to where you are holding.For instance where ever you hold the staff the part that stems from your thumb is "the front end." And the part that stems from your pinky is "the back end."

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:That makes sense, we'll see what others thinbk of it. EGI find NECKROLLS so much easier if I hold the staff about 2 thirds down the back end before rolling it, it travels nicely along the neck and then I can catch it in the middle when the move finishes...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nzFire is the test of gold; adversity, of strong men. *Seneca, (4 BC - 65 AD)*

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Following on from Nix's thread on doubles staff moves: http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/000007.htmlI
think we need to a have a consensus on the way we move doubles around, and probably a list of synonyms as well. This may mean learning some poi or club terminology. I will start the ball rolling with a few examples: Doubles can be moved in front or behind the body. They can be twirled outwards, ribbon or marked end of the staff moves away from the body (outwards). Inwards, ribbon end of staff goes inwards, crossing in front of the body. You can do tricks at hip, shoulder and head level. In sync moves (simultaneous) both sticks move together, in front or behind the body. Like with sideways fig 8's spinning in front then behind, creating circles in front and behind. If you overlap the staffs at the front or back you get an X shape. Out of sync moves (alternative) one stick spinning in front of the body, while the other is spinning behind the body. Good resting position. Parallel moves (chase the sun) where both sticks travel in the same direction, parallel to each other. Follow moves (windmills) same as above (chase the sun) except quarter or half a circle apart. Haven't quite got this one with doubles, and Bec's single staff windmill is done behind the back. There are others moves like opposites, fountains, weaves (chase), but its a start.
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Any comments???


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Doubles: What I was trying say in my previous post was that there is some confusion (I'm confused) with doubles terminology, and a few standard descriptions would facilitate communication; so we can easily figure out what everyone is describing. Some definitions: In-sync (occurs at the same time, exactly together) both props spinning together i.e. two in front or two behind. Out of sync (occurs at the different times) one prop is swung forward, while the other prop is swung behind. Parallel movements: Both props travel in the same direction e.g. chase the sun. Parallels can be in or out of sync. Chase the sun/moon, high turns, low turns, tuck turns are all parallel movements in sync. While the chase (weave) fountain, windmill etc, are all parallel movements out of sync (i.e. quarter or half beat apart). These movements are sometimes called follow movements. Alternating movements: Both props travel in alternating directions. For example, the right prop is swung clockwise, while the left prop is swung anti-clockwise. The butterfly is an alternating movement. Alternating movements can be in and out of sync. The standard butterfly is in an in-sync movement, while the mexican wave and reel are out of sync movements. I think these movements are sometimes called opposites?I posted in this thread because its a terminology (naming moves thread) thread, and Nix's (link above) is a tricks thread. I don't know if I am 100% happy with my definition of alternating movements, but its a start. Sorry about the poi names, but they are well documented at HOP. Feel free to comment, so I know if I have missed the boat completely.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:I'm coming in a bit late, so I hope I'm not stating the obvious, but I'll take the risk and add a few comments on single staff. I may have missed something, but I think the term rotor needs clarification, especially when it is used in conjunction with finger spinning. The rotor (as described) is vertical spin that stays in one space. I gather this is the two handed spin (hand to hand), where continuous spinning creates a circle of flame. This move is difficult to learn properly, and I don't think it should be confused with finger spinning. One suggestion here, would be to change the names to a two handed rotor and a fingerspin rotor. Where rotor is used to describe a vertical spin that stays in one space (ie. circle of flame). ROTOR = Any vertical spin that stays in one space, generally used to create a circle of flame. Same as HELICOPTER, but perpendicular to the ground. TWO HANDED ROTOR (or just plain rotor, if you like. Staff passed between the hands in front or at the side of the body to create a circle of flame, as in Xaeda's staff lessons 1 (full 360 degrees rotation in each hand before passing. FINGERSPIN = To roll the staff through your fingers one-by one, keeping the staff stationary and spinning (I would omit the stationary from the description because some people move the staff up or down when they fingerspin). So, then you could use the term FINGERSPIN ROTOR to describe the action if the staff remained stationary (creating a circle of flame).I hope these comments help
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If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Posted:they made sense to me Stone.That doubles topic you pointed to, was indeed a difficult thread to get through, as I think there were about 4 competing naming / description systems...I would hope that ppl would at least TRY to use a standardised system.We need all the moves represented with videos on malcolms site, so that we can point at that as reference...<hmmmm...thinks>Josh

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:I said that. I said there should be pictures. I said it first = Always the innovatorXaeda drew some wicked pictures to describe the neck wrap. But my artistic soul cries out for more..... ever onward into the void.....

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Stone - "* ROTOR = Any vertical spin that stays in one space. Same as HELICOPTER, but perpindicular to the ground."As it's under the ------Staff Movements------ section, this is not aluding to how this is achieved, it's merely what the staff itself is doing on it's own, say if an invisible man/woman were spinning it.So, as you correctly point out, for specific descriptions ROTORS should have another term to describe how it is achieved, I.E FINGERSPIN ROTOR or HANDWRAP ROTOR.I seperated the moves so we can describe the path the staff takes and/or its manipulation so that if the manipulation is correct but the staff isn't doing the same thing, people will know its the move being described.Does that make sense?------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz

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Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Fair enough Charles, I should have read the staff movements section more closely. So, a HANDWRAP ROTOR is doing a full hand (360 degrees) rotation in each hand before passing. Now, I know I'm being a bit pedantic here, but rotors are a bread and butter move. Personally, I would use the term TWO HANDED ROTOR instead of HANDEDWRAP ROTOR, because a handwrap rotor implies a rotor made by wrapping the staff around the back of the hand, and not passing from hand to hand. I see the HANDWRAP ROTOR as another move. Like, I sometimes do handrap rotors (usually in conjunction with handwrap Fig 8's) where I get a few extra spins in front of the body, by wrapping the staff a few times around the back, of say my right hand. It may sound like I'm being picky, but the two handed rotor is a key move that's incorporated into many combinations. Unfortunately, it's all some people do!!!! Cheers
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If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:I know how fixed Charles is in his definitions
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But i have to agree with Stone on the Two Handed versus Handwrap.....my .02------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Pele and Stone, you are completely right, I was only using HANDWRAP and FINGERSPIN as examples of how a ROTOR can be done. TWO HANDED is exactly how you are meant to describe it when using two hands.HANDWRAP is to wrap the staff over the back of your hand or through your palm before cathing it again (or whatever). i'm currently working on a continous ONE HANDED HANDWRAP, but tend to lose it after the tenth rep...So, no, Stone, you aren't being pedantic at all. Even if I am a bit "fixed" ( @ Pele) in my definitions.I'll tell you all about the 'real' reason why I'm doing th... oops nothing, forget I said I said. NO ULTERIOR MOTIVES HERE AT AL!!!! (stomps off looking all nervous)...and C@ntus, ***it put a what?!? in your what?!?
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------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz


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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:*trying to work out what Charles' ulterior motives could be*

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:*far-away, muffled, maniacal laugh from nowhere in particular*---<Ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaarr, aha ha ha haaaaaarr....>---------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:Oh no, grandfather's locked himself out on the roof again....

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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.draevon
.draevon

member
Location: Androgen
Member Since: 12th Dec 2000
Total posts: 92
Posted:What's going on here ... am I going to have to separate you two?raevonNote special '', contrary to what the 'registered' name might have you believe.No website still by the way ....

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:There's no problem here ocifer. Just had a little drinkie thash all.* begins to sing a song about a pixie*

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Hey Dravon (don't know how to do the funny D
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), good to hear from you again.Maybe you can help me get this thread back on topic, even though it was my fault it moved off in the first place.do you mind putting in some constructive critiscism for some of the rms here, or suggestions for moves not yet covered?Thanks heaps...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz


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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:I finally watched the COL vid this morning. And duly inspired went out and did about 5 hours intensive staff training.Broken in the middle by an impromptu sword fighting lesson from my brother's girlfriend.I've decided that the helicopter move that i was previously debating the name for is a PINWHEEL HELICOPTER.What i did notice that was missing from the video is throws, of which I do many. The only throw i did see was by Xaeda. I'll come up with a list of the throws I do do for you at a later date (if anyone is interested).Cheers------------------C@ntusWe are old, we are young, we are in this together, vagabonds and children, we're prisoners forever, with pulses raging and eyes full of wonder, Kicking out behind us again.

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Posted:I would be very interested in a listing of all the throws and catchs you do, Cantus. Maybe put it on a new thread?Josh

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Cantus
Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road
Member Since: 30th Jul 2001
Total posts: 15965
Posted:Yeah maybe. Now I've got the hang of this posting new threads malarky.

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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