### Forums > Technical Discussion > Fuel Mixes-For serious performers

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darkpoet
BRONZE Member since May 2003

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA

Total posts: 525
Posted:ok people
heres the deal
ive been working on fuel mixes for various properties-behaviors of the flame on the wick
heres what ive come up w\and it would be greatly appreaciated if you would post your mixes so that way i could find something better
all these burns have been on 4inch tubecore
monkyfists are better!

Citronella Oil (very smelly and smokey)
some people are allergic to citronella

white gas (no smoke faint smell)
3 min EXPLOSIVE light

citronella to white gas
3:1 ratio (very sooty and smells to high heaven)
about a 6-10min burn (very quick light)

Ultra Pure lamp oil
5 min (slow-med light)

ultra pure to white gas 3:1
4 min hardly any smell or smoke (very quick light)

Multi Colored fire!!
OK this looks and sounds cool but I DO NOT RECOMMEND IT!!! and people...dont try to blow w\this stuff...unless you want to DIE
no movement-standard yellow
spinning-green
isolation\stop\direction change-cloud of scarlet
laquer thinner-acetone-paint thinner- mineral spirits-1tbsp boric (ish)
4:2:2:1
hardly any smoke very very odd smell |DO NOT DO BUZZSAWS DURING OR AFTER A BURN YOU WILL GET A VERY HEAVY WIFF OF THE FUEL AND GET RATHER SICK!|
burn time : 4 min -ish it seems to be different every time i light em up

thats it for now ill keep you updated
i might be able to come up w\ a 15min burn or better!!

[ 12. November 2003, 07:59: Message edited by: darkpoet ]

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Big Andy
BRONZE Member since Apr 2003

member
Location: Dallas, Tx, USA

Total posts: 186
Posted:quote:Originally posted by MillenniuM:
I spin with White Gas, and I have burns all up and down my arms... scars of the art, I suppose. I definitely noticed that I never burned myself with Lamp Oil and when I switched to White Gas, and was constantly burning myself... you eventually just get used to the pain and used to the burns. I recommend doing wraps and what not at the middle - end of your routine rather than beginning, it cools down significantly. Yeah, I suppose plenty of tough guys, or even normal guys, would get used to it. But I am a huge weenie! I freak out and scream like a girl when a bee comes too close! I don't think I could just get used to it, lol.

But yeah, we are planning to burn primarily with lamp oil in the future, with white gas as a starter. I hate waiting for a little flame to work its way around the wick, and have to wait for it to get big enough to spin and look good. Is kero any better for this?

"We can't stop here! This is bat country!"

"Welcome to the U-S-A,
We'll treat you right, unless you're black or gay, or Cherokeeeeee!!"

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:Lamp oil is Kerro, with a few more nasty added chemicals

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:quote:Originally posted by [Nx?]:
Lamp oil is Kerro, with a few more nasty added chemicals Other way around sweetie. Lamp Oil is purified from kero (unless it is a paraffin derrivitive, which still then has refined Kero added).
Aviation grade Kero is even more refined than lamp oil and much more expensive and harder to find.

It's like ghetto fuel, blue collar fuel and white collar fuel! lol

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

darkpoet
BRONZE Member since May 2003

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA

Total posts: 525

theres a fuel additive called heet..(sp?) some catchy name like that
its almost 100% isopropyl mix that w\boric and you get green, and the fumes arent AS bad as my multi colored mix, but this stuff is expensive at around 4$for a 6oz bottle also its burns very hot and i havnt timed it so i cant give any data on that Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and prizes Co-Founder of Keepers of Light Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE! [Nx?] BRONZE Member since Nov 2001 Carpal \'Tunnel Location: Europe,Scotland,Both Total posts: 3749 Posted:humm, a poitless argument but this is how I understand it. Aiviation fuel is also called Kerrosene, and its a petrochemical, ie, its refined from oil at a certain temprature, everything you get at that temprature is kerrosene. Commercial kerro, for heaters and such has a certain set of addiatives and lamp oil has other set, to reduce smell and smoke. Aviation fuel as you correctly point out is pure, and only really available by the barrel. t This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate -><- Kallisti Cody SILVER Member since Sep 2003 That guy from Reno Location: Reno, Nevada USA Total posts: 556 Posted:Sooooo all these chemical metal satls need to be polar to disolve right, but they still produce color when burned dry. A posibility is to super saturate some of these chemicals in water (boil) and soak your wicks. Then let them dry. Then use any sort of fuel you prefer. White gas has a very bright flame which overpowers the color untill the end of the burn. Lamp or kero can do that too. I say if you want colors use denatured as fuel. If you want more colored flame, use bigger wicks. Cody Canon Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada darkpoet BRONZE Member since May 2003 Irish Location: Dallas.........ish, USA Total posts: 525 Posted:first off the metal salts as you call them are polar as is, so they wont dissociate into a non-polar fuel, but they do stay on your wicks the supersaturating water is a good idea, but theres a problem with it that methinks your not seeing most of the fuels you use have sodium additives to make them burn hotter, and more yellow like a "good little flame" should the sodium will overpower just about any chem you put together except for strontium, as far as i know..... get all the metal salts and a bunsen burner record the colors, then put in some sodium (table salt has elemental sodium in it hence NaCl) to represent the sodium additives in the fuel record which colors arent overpowered by the sodium and post it...if anybody would try this the data would be most appreciated [ 31. October 2003, 07:12: Message edited by: darkpoet ] Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and prizes Co-Founder of Keepers of Light Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE! ...dreamer... member Location: Newcastle Total posts: 36 Posted:sorry for no doubt sounding stupid but am new to this. read this page ummm... could someone tell me whats wrong with just good old petroleum -seems to work ok Be a dreamer..... .....dreams can change the world. vanize SILVER Member since Aug 2001 Carpal \'Tunnel Location: Austin, Texas, USA Total posts: 3899 Posted: ...Dreamer... please read this article that malcom has posted about fuels. and please cease and desist with the petrol/gasoline, if that is indeed what you meant. it is an accident waiting to happen, and we love you too much! -v- Wiederstand ist Zwecklos! ...dreamer... member Location: Newcastle Total posts: 36 Posted:hehe thanks that could explain the dreams its just so easy to get hold of and looks so pretty....grrrrrr.... i think ive got an idea, shall break into RAF base and syphon off some jet fuel. Be a dreamer..... .....dreams can change the world. darkpoet BRONZE Member since May 2003 Irish Location: Dallas.........ish, USA Total posts: 525 Posted:yeah....you do that... while the rest of us get back on topic about the mixes themselves.....come on ppl lets see what your recommendations for fuel mixes are and what you have found to be good to use when you cant find\afford aviation grade kero .......like the original idea of this post Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and prizes Co-Founder of Keepers of Light Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE! darkpoet BRONZE Member since May 2003 Irish Location: Dallas.........ish, USA Total posts: 525 Posted:Green Alternative i found this fuel additive called HEET, well guess what, its almost 100%isopropyl!!! for those who dont know isopropyl alcohol is polar and will dissolve your boric acid so my results (btw its like 2$ for an 8oz bottle)

HEET:Boric
litre: 6tbsp
light: rather quick
burns rather hot
burn time: around 4 min depending on the wick, and weather conditions
as a further note, isopropyl absorbs water from the air around it so after you do a burn w\it you might want to wait a while before lighting that pair of wicks again, if you do it enough you will have a pair of really really wet wicks
another thing is to cap your fuel or it will become saturated w\water which is also a bad thing

Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

todd

member
Location: Tasmania

Total posts: 3
Posted:My criteria for fuel are (most to least important):

1) Safe!
2) Safe!!!
3) Not smelly!

and to a lesser extent:

4) Decent burning time
5) Not too dirty (I don't really care so much about this one, but it would be nice)

I usually use Kerosene because its cheap, but it stinks and half of my clothes have black stains on them from using it.

I'm not sure about this, but apparently kero in Australia is different to kero in other countries. Apparently stuff is added to it to make it look blue, and smell and taste really bad - all so that people don't mistake it for a tasty beverage!

I'm sick of smelling so bad after having a twirl. Any suggestions?

darkpoet
BRONZE Member since May 2003

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA

Total posts: 525
Posted:this is why your supposed to use aviation grade kero, because its basically 100% pure and u dont get these issues
the next best thing is ultra pure lamp oil
they make ultra pure
dont rightly know about gettin some to u aussies though because of trade restrictions on combustibles (sp? its 3 12 am...grammar is bad gimme a break)

Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

GeckoX
BRONZE Member since Aug 2003

member

Total posts: 18
Posted:I've been searching high and low for aviation-grade kerosene, but with no luck. I've avoided regular store-bought kerosene because of the additives which are rather random and ill-proportioned. (What I mean by this is that two brands of kerosene could have different ratos).

For now I stick to white gas (via coleman). Although it's more volatile, I can at least depend on its consistency.

Does anyone know where I can get pure kerosene in Canada? Things seem to be tighter here than in the U.S.

T&B
BRONZE Member since Aug 2003

Me
Location: London/Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 607
Posted:Here abit of info on the subject.

http://www.jugglingdb.com/articles/index.php?id=23#colour
br>
the broic acid and meths works nicely but i've yet to try Lithium chloride (red flame) let me know how it goes if you decided to use it.

Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ct

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:A pilot/firedancing friend got his mitts on some Jet-A kerosene. My verdict: at least as smelly and sooty as the garden-variety kerosene. Truly awful. It may have no additives, but hey, hemlock is all-natural and will kill you.

I'll stick with my impure lamp oil, thank you.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

darkpoet
BRONZE Member since May 2003

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA

Total posts: 525
Posted:got another one for you

6:1
citronella oil to white gas
decent-fast light depending on weather
around a 5-8min burn yet again depending on your style of spinning and the wicks your using
very smoky, very sooty, but it keeps the bugs away when you finish

Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

darkpoet
BRONZE Member since May 2003

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA

Total posts: 525
Posted:if you can tell me where to get the lithium chloride, then ill def. try it out
but i dont know where to get any of the metal salts in bulk (1lb or 2.2kilos)
if you know anything, id be much abliged, and ill post all of my results

Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Big Andy
BRONZE Member since Apr 2003

member
Location: Dallas, Tx, USA

Total posts: 186
Posted:I'm considering trying just nasty ole citronella oil. I went to World Market to stock up on Ultra Pure the other day and noticed that a half gallon bottle of citronella costs 4 bucks while 3 - 22oz. bottles of ultra pure (66oz's ~ half gallon) cost more than twice that!!

What about mixing citronella and ultra pure 1:1 or something like that? I bet it would still have the same burn time, temp, and start up charateristics as straight lamp oil, But hopefully would only be half as smoky and dirty, while not as expensive as straight Ultra Pure. They would mix just fine, I'm assuming, being similar chemicals.

Kinda seems silly to mix oil and oil, lol. I was just thinking it would help if the smoke and soot really bothered a person, but they didn't like coughing up damn near 20 dollars a gallon for lamp oil.

On the discussion of what is what with regards to the lamp oil... I don't know about what is refined into what or anything like that, but Ultra Pure says on the bottle "99% pure liquid wax parrafin."

EDITED_BY: Big Andy (1070585995)

"We can't stop here! This is bat country!"

"Welcome to the U-S-A,
We'll treat you right, unless you're black or gay, or Cherokeeeeee!!"

-Brian Griffin from "Family Guy" (the dog)

Heath

member

Total posts: 36
Posted:Quote:
Aviation grade Kero is even more refined than lamp oil and much more expensive and harder to find.

I'm afraid you're mistaken. "Aviation grade Kero" is known as Jet-A and typically runs for about $2/gallon. The last time I checked ultra-pure lamp oil was about$20/gallon. It's not difficult to get Jet-A, you just need to find an airport that has self-service. One can look up a local airport at airnav.com which gives the information about fuel prices and whether self-service is available. Note that my local airport has Jet-A self-service available for \$1.87/gallon.

GeckoX
BRONZE Member since Aug 2003

member

Total posts: 18
Posted:I'm sorry to interject with such a mundane question, but after reading this entire thread I feel compelled to ask...

White gas by itself isn't that great, in my opinion. It has an awesome light but burns too quickly. If I mix kerosene and white gas at a ratio of 1:1, will the burn last longer and still be as bright?

I read this thread for info but find myself more confused now that I've done so.

Thanks.

Big Andy
BRONZE Member since Apr 2003

member
Location: Dallas, Tx, USA

Total posts: 186
Posted:Quote:
Originally posted by GeckoX
I'm sorry to interject with such a mundane question, but after reading this entire thread I feel compelled to ask...

White gas by itself isn't that great, in my opinion. It has an awesome light but burns too quickly. If I mix kerosene and white gas at a ratio of 1:1, will the burn last longer and still be as bright?

I read this thread for info but find myself more confused now that I've done so.

Thanks.

I understand, believe me, lol. I haven't actually tried mixing them. What I have been doing recently that I like, is soaking them ultra pure lamp oil, spinning off the excess, then just quickly dunking them in white gas, and spinning off again. They light up quickly and have that bright coleman flame, this lasts for about 1.5 to 2 minutes, then the flame starts looking more like lamp oil. It seems like a consistnet burn though. Not a significant or sudden change, much like a lamp oil burn just starts out a little bigger and brighter. Burn time doing this is just as long as lamp oil if not longer. It seems like the quick light up gives you a little extra time.

Don't know this for sure, but that's what it *seems* like to me, from the handle end of things. The white gas sparks up and you're spinning before a significant amount of lamp oil is even burning. This will vary of course on how much white gas you use. If it's a tiny little dip on the corner, than it won't be any diferent, but if you dunk them 2/3 of the way in , then you will get a nice layer of colemans to burn off.

"We can't stop here! This is bat country!"

"Welcome to the U-S-A,
We'll treat you right, unless you're black or gay, or Cherokeeeeee!!"

-Brian Griffin from "Family Guy" (the dog)

TeeJay

member
Location: Malaeimi, Am. Samoa

Total posts: 75
Posted:We use plain white gas for our Samoan Fireknives and it lasts at least 4 to 5 minutes.
Could be because we use cotton towels for wicks ?
When we have Kevlar wicks, we still use the towels underneath it .

TeeJay

darkpoet
BRONZE Member since May 2003

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA

Total posts: 525
Posted:it might be the weave pattern of the cotton, but ive got no clue
on the fuel part
try mixing around a 1:4 colemans to kero or a 1:5 or 2:7
that mihgt work really really well but i dont know i dont have any kero to use

Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

mekaj
SILVER Member since Dec 2003

member
Location: , USA

Total posts: 3
Posted:First of all let me make it clear that last night was my first time at spinning fire poi and I used a fuel that was already mixed by my friend so be understanding if this is a stupid question. I've looked through this thread and it's pretty interesting. I know that people use parrafin sometimes but it doesn't seem that there have been any specific mixtures involving it. Is it good on it's own? Can it be mixed with white gas? I just want to know how people actually do use it because considering how inexperienced I am with the actual idea of fire. If any of you do use it can you let me know how? Thanks a lot everyone

MillenniuM
PLATINUM Member since Jul 2003

Hyperloops suck
Location: , USA

Total posts: 595
Posted:People that mix white gas and paraffin usually use mostly paraffin and do a quick dip in to white gas for the quick light and the long lasting burn. I'd recommend not even mixing them, just simply soaking in paraffin and literally dunking it in white gas for 2 or 3 seconds.

Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:JUst a little note to those reading this that "quick-lighting" is another term "more dangerous".

There have been several incidents where white gas/colemans fuels have been lit accidentally from hot wicks, bystanders cigarettes and people playing with lighters, in some cases metres away form the fuel dump!

Lot's of people use white gas, but if you do, make sure it is not accessable to anyone but yourself and that you are aware of it's low flashpoint (meaning the gas coming off it is combustable, not just the liquid fuel).

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mekaj
SILVER Member since Dec 2003

member
Location: , USA

Total posts: 3
Posted:Now considering you have mentioned the low flash point of white gas do you think I should mix it with anything to dilute its strength? If so what? It would be kind of cool if you knew of something that I could mix it with that made it last a little longer... I just bought some and tried it out today and it does go out pretty quick. I couldn't even finish a routine I had for a song. Thanks a lot

darkpoet
BRONZE Member since May 2003

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish, USA

Total posts: 525
Posted:you definately dont want to dilute the gas, but you do want to be safe, mix your fuels before going to the event, or if you have to mix more go out behind something like a wall and ALWAYS have your fuels capped and roped off or at least have people making it clear to not be near the fuel w\fire!!

Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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