• All Purchases made this month instantly go into the draw to win a USD $ 200.00 credit to your HoP account.
 
Page: 12
darkpoet
darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish
Member Since: 14th May 2003
Total posts: 525
Posted:ok....recently i got meself about a pound of boric acid and was wondering what fuel i should mix it in to get the green flame......that and what ratios of acid to fuel should i use?????
help would be greatly appreciated......


Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete Topic

poirob2
member
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire, England
Member Since: 8th Jan 2003
Total posts: 43
Posted:pure ethanol (not meth spirits, the damage your wicks), with a table spoon to every litre. Hope that helps!!

Is this were Im supposed to write something interesting.....errmm.........AVOCARDO!!!!!!

Delete

Tamim
member
Location: California
Member Since: 27th Jul 2003
Total posts: 28
Posted:What the heck? You can get green flames???

Your only one drug away from liking techno.

Delete

darkpoet
darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish
Member Since: 14th May 2003
Total posts: 525
Posted:ok.....3 things
one
isnt ethanal explosive???? like extremely and doesnt it have harmful vapor??
and 2
where do u get it??
and 3
is there any other fuels that work well w\the boric acid?????


Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

Matthew_Ne
Matthew_Ne

Northeast USA Firespinner
Location: Connecticut, USA
Member Since: 30th Dec 2002
Total posts: 122
Posted:I was wondering about this too.. could I just use Coleman White Gas with this boric acid? Where could I obtain other chemicals like this? Methinks local drugstore.. but maybe not. thanks ^_^

Delete

Zoltar
Zoltar

Beginner
Location: Beyond Time, South of Melbourn...
Member Since: 6th Nov 2002
Total posts: 282
Posted:Try a search on 'colored fire', or 'coloring flames', or something like that.

This has been discussed many a time here.


So much fire, so little body hair...

Delete

MillenniuM
MillenniuM

Hyperloops suck

Member Since: 10th Jul 2003
Total posts: 595
Posted:I could be completely incorrect, but I think I remember from my days in chemistry that the substance you mix with boric acid must be polar, or else they will not form hydrogen bonds and mix together, resulting in an "oil and water" effect. It should work with any polar fuel (a fuel who's chemical structure gives it a positive and negative end), and all my attempts at pinning each kind of fuel to it's polarity have failed.

I could most likely figure it out if someone could point me to the chemical structures of common fuels, but so far I've been unsuccessful at finding any websites on the matter


Delete

darkpoet
darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish
Member Since: 14th May 2003
Total posts: 525
Posted:...almost every fuel your going to find...including solvents...are going to be non polar...as far as i know the only polar solvent is water......so i was thinkin of adding rubbing alchohol since it does burn and the water would dissociate the boric acid ions....just an idea..

Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:I used boric acid with meths and got some green flames.

It doesn't work with paraffin apparently.

Although I got green flames I didn't persist because:-

1. the flames were significantly smaller than normal (probably due to the meths flames being smaller than paraffin ones)

2. the fumes were nasty, I felt quite uneasy about them.

the people watching seemed to appreciate it though, they were spinners and very curious about the green effect.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

Lasa'nta Dubh Mac Tire
member
Location: LA... Pine Oregon
Member Since: 9th Sep 2003
Total posts: 51
Posted:http://www.firechains.com/
and goto fuels. hope that helps.


Nothing goes through the Lunitics dark mind... By his own Decaying HeartI love the little tacos... I love them goood G.i.rI'm gunna roll around on the floor for abit k? G.i.r

Delete

38 spinner
member
Location: Texada Island B.C.
Member Since: 18th Sep 2003
Total posts: 1
Posted:I have what you need on the polar/non-polar fuel deal,go to the following::: Juggling information service/help@juggling.org Go to coloured flames near the bottom of the page.Also,i have heard that oleic acid will produce pink,,,

38firespinner

Delete

darkpoet
darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish
Member Since: 14th May 2003
Total posts: 525
Posted:oleic acid.....??????
what the hell is that.....????
sigh......
ive seen some pictures of a guy doin green flame and the flames were like 2x as large as w\my monkeyfists but i dunno what fuel he was using......
so if anybody knows
or knows any semipolar fuels that will mix w\white gas plz tell me


Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

squarefish
(...trusty steed of the rodeo midget...)
Location: the state of flux
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2002
Total posts: 403
Posted:Darkpoet, ethanol is a type of alcohol and in highly concentrated doses can indeed be lethal. The fumes from ethanol are not toxic per se but can have the nasty habit of catching fire.. with the flame running back to the fuel container.. you can imagine the burny result.

Watch out folks....HERE COMES THE SCIENCE BIT!!!....
Polarity of solvents is not a yes/no issue but a sort of gray scale with different solvents coming in at different spots on the polarity scale
The following is a short selection of solvents with polarity increasing as you go down the list


Heptane
Hexane
Pentane
Cyclohexane
Trichloroethylene
Carbon Tetrachloride
Di-Iso-Propyl Ether
Toluene
Methyl-t-Butyl Ether
Xylene
Benzene
DiEthyl Ether
Dichloromethane
1,2-Dichloroethane
Butyl Acetate
Iso-Propanol
n-Butanol
Tetrahydrofuran
n-Propanol
Chloroform
Ethyl Acetate
2-Butanone
Dioxane
Acetone
Methanol
Ethanol
Acetonitrile
Acetic Acid
Dimethylformamide
Dimethyl Sulfoxide
Water

Reichardt's dye [2,6-diphenyl-4-(2,4,6-tripheynylpyidinio)phenolate, Aldrich 27,244-2] can be used as a rough guide to polarity of a given sample of solvet. A small amount of the dye is placed in a test tube with the solvent in question and the colour produced is examined.

As the solvents become more polar, we observe a change from green to blue to violet to red to orange to yellow as the polarity of the solvent increases.

The ability of the solvent to disolve water soluble salt like boric acid or lithium salts will increase as you go down the list above, but I dont have toxicity or flamability data for them. Get your safety stuff in order first, read your MSDS sheets!

They call me "MR." Research now!
(brains twitching yet?)

And now....to the pub


Delete

darkpoet
darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish
Member Since: 14th May 2003
Total posts: 525
Posted:aight ppl heres whwhl heres what ive done so far....

half a gallon laquer thinner..( i know i know this stuff cant be healthy) mixed w\about 2 tablespoons of boric
put this into ur container and make sure its a small container......the laquer thinner only partially dissolves the boric, so some of it will settle down to the bottom
one of the biggest issues ive found is that my wicks are sodium contaminated (spelling?)
which means they burn YELLOW!!!!!!
if anybody knows how to fix this id be greatly oblidged!!!!
anyways when ur ready to use ur fuel...just shake the container well untill the mix is cloudy soak ur wicks and light up.....smells a bit like vinigar when your spinning and DO NOT LEAVE THE THINNER OPEN!!!! people (this includes the person spinnin) can get very high off the fumes and this is extremely dangerous to the spinner!! goes along the lines of why u dont spin fire when ur drunk..........
anyways it gives a decent burn time wise but its rather hot like....so more experiments to come


Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

mang
member

Member Since: 26th Sep 2003
Total posts: 1
Posted:You may want to try with fresh, unused wicks. If you burn with lamp oil, etc the soot and other remnants will tend to make things burn yellow. Haven't tried laquer thinner. Meth/ethanol + boric acid will burn green but tends to be small and blown out easily. If there were a better fuel that picks up the green it would be cool!

Delete

darkpoet
darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish
Member Since: 14th May 2003
Total posts: 525
Posted:dunno where to get meth and this stuff doesnt go out....but its really cool because at the base of the flame its green but the tips are yellow and when u do an isolation or a stop u get this big ass cloud of scarlet

Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Do a search ... this has all been discussed before. Except for the 'spinning with chloroform' idea... which seems a bit dodgy.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

darkpoet
darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish
Member Since: 14th May 2003
Total posts: 525
Posted:yeah yeah yeah
and word of advice
i just found out that methanol when burning....its fumes are a neurotoxin for those that dont know what im talking about it MASSIVELY SCREWS U OVER!!!!!!!!!!
anyways and spinnin w\chloroform(sp?)??? thats just...dumb
thats like blowing w\gasoline


Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

darkpoet
darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish
Member Since: 14th May 2003
Total posts: 525
Posted:ok this is kinda lame but i want a post of mine to have the little flame thing so im gonna make this post have 20 replies


Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

KristieEB
member
Location: Oakland, CA
Member Since: 17th Sep 2003
Total posts: 108
Posted:it didn't have the flames when i looked at it so i am adding my bit of help ...

and to keep it on topic ... oh, nevermind, i don't have anything to add ...


Delete

darkpoet
darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish
Member Since: 14th May 2003
Total posts: 525
Posted:sigh
anyways
gonna try a new mix that methinks will work this weekend
if i can find 100%isopropl alchohol (gives a huge flame) and mix it w\acetone which i know dissolves the boric, i think it should work and get me some massively huge green fireballs
we shall see!


Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

darkpoet
darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish
Member Since: 14th May 2003
Total posts: 525
Posted:.bout the acetone
it works pretty well
get a nice green
but its hot as hell
and the fumes make you a wee bit iffish
i dont recomend this one
ill see what else i can think of
anybody have any mixes that they know of the make green fire w\a big flame please tell me
i need to know.....


Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

Eera
old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay
Member Since: 29th May 2003
Total posts: 1107
Posted:Yesterday I dissolved boric acid in ethanol and lit it. My flames were typical parrafin yellow as my wicks still had residue on it, until I spun slowly then they turned green, so depending on the rate of spinning I could get either a yellow or a green flame.

If anyone has access to a university geological department we use boric acid to make XRF pellets, it may be worthwhile asking if they have any they are slinging. I have a couple of spare ones I can give to UK based people. PM me if you're interested.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

Delete

darkpoet
darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish
Member Since: 14th May 2003
Total posts: 525
Posted:wtf is an XRF pellet....and i tried some new chemical combinations the other day
mostly with a chemical called strontium chloride
this is also polar so things like methanol or acentone will disolve it
anyways
it burns scarlet
really nice effect
but it stays on your wicks so id suggest having a seperate pair of wicks for certain colors because ive also found my wicks are permanent green in color now
anyways just a suggestion


Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

AutumnLyfe
member
Location: From Florida but now in Namibi...
Member Since: 19th Oct 2003
Total posts: 44
Posted:Living where I do I have no other choice but to use th Menthalated Spirits and boric acid. I should be fine with that ya? I know that you say the flames are smaller and go out easy but I imagine I should have a second set to light without the chemicals and just the regular. Anything else I need to know?
Thanks,
Autumn


There are no ordinary moments.

Delete

firetwirl_net
member
Location: australia
Member Since: 26th Apr 2003
Total posts: 10
Posted:ok every one

when i use green flames
i put 2-3 table spoon of borsaic acid
to one litre of meths

- i use a fire toy dedicated to green flames
(poi staff etc.)
- using the same toy the flame will get greener
and better
- also it can have some killer fumes
- so it would be best that its is only
used a couple thmes that nite
like a party trick

hope this helps
michael


To love fire is to be fire

Delete

darkpoet
darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish
Member Since: 14th May 2003
Total posts: 525
Posted:hey when we say that there are killer fumes were not joking people........you can get very high very quick, and you get nauseated (sp?), headache, and you feel like crap overall, if you have big crowds the fumes can also effect them so if your gonna spin green.....make sure that the crowd is at a safe distance, theres little wind, and you do it as a finale, not more than 2 or 3 burns in the whole night!!

also theres a fuel additive thats called Heet, its mostly isopropl alchohol, cept its like 2$ for a 6oz bottle anways, makes THE PERFECT green flame but its rather hot like and just a bit smokey so because of the price, i wouldnt use it
and when i say hot, i mean hot

[ 29. October 2003, 07:50: Message edited by: darkpoet ]


Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

...dreamer...
member
Location: Newcastle
Member Since: 29th Oct 2003
Total posts: 36
Posted:dont know for certain but have been told to soak wick then dip in copper oxide powder or iron oxide to get pretty colours
i believe ones ment to be green

damnit cant remember was last week and it was noisy


Be a dreamer.....


.....dreams can change the world.

Delete

flid
flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire
Member Since: 27th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3136
Posted:me and sir_sheep are playing with chemicals at the moment. Got really good results with boric acid and pure alcohol. Won't work with paraffin, because it contains sodium. Disolved in on its own was pretty crap, but sprinkled onto the soaked wick as well gave impressive results and a decent burn time. Pictures here:

http://photos.offline.org.uk/showgallery.php?galleryid=124&page=6




Delete

Mark P
Mark P

old hand
Location: Bath, England
Member Since: 26th Oct 2001
Total posts: 1031
Posted:Hey there just thought I would reply to this post as it is a subject that I researched a bit and am a chemist so tried practically quite a lot.

Ethanol or meths are the best to use when using boric acid for creating green flames. These fuels are alot more volatile and do burn hotter than standard paraffin/kerosene, however you will also find that the flame will be a lot weaker than other fuels.

I also found that when spinning with these fuels and boric acid or other additives you dont really see the colouration in the flame properly until you are spinning and there is therefore a lot more oxygen aiding combustion of the colouration agents.

Here are a couple of piccies of boric acid in use.

Firstly on its own :

http://wood2.woodyland.org/pictures/parties/claverton-11052002/thumb/dscf1650-2-0.shtml
br>
And then being used with paraffin on one wick and meths/boric acid on a second wick :

http://wood2.woodyland.org/pictures/parties/claverton-11052002/thumb/dscf1670-2-0.shtml
br>
Have loads of fun playing but also be careful many of the chemicals are actually harmful and after prolonged use of boric acid we found we were all getting quite bad coughs.

So play - enjoy - but if you notice side effects after prolonged use then cut back on the ammount of spinning you do with the chemicals.

Hope this helps

Mark P


Delete

divi
member
Location: Ontario, Canada
Member Since: 26th May 2003
Total posts: 36
Posted:heya, fellow coveters of the green flame!
thankx for all of your insight as to the reasons why my boric acid didn't produce a green flame when i mixed it with parrafin (actually, i'm extremely embarassed by that... i used to be a chemistry student! )
boric acid is generally pretty safe. however, it is a fine powder, so just avoid inhaling it when you pour, and you're good!
hope you get your flame!

[ 11. November 2003, 02:38: Message edited by: divi ]


Delete

Page: 12