Forums > Technical Discussion > Soaking wicks after a burn...
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Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Many people say to dunk your wicks in your fuel after you burn. Isn't that dangerous? Couldn't you light the fuel on fire and have QUITE a mess?
Many people say to dunk your wicks in your fuel after you burn. Isn't that dangerous? Couldn't you light the fuel on fire and have QUITE a mess?
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
It's the best way to preserve your wick life cos wicks smoulder when extinguished and that is damaging.
If you use paraffin you should have no problems with it igniting, that's not true of some other fuels though.
quote:What they mean is to extinguish the wicks then dunk then immediately.
Originally posted by MillenniuM:
Many people say to dunk your wicks in your fuel after you burn. Isn't that dangerous? Couldn't you light the fuel on fire and have QUITE a mess?
It's the best way to preserve your wick life cos wicks smoulder when extinguished and that is damaging.
If you use paraffin you should have no problems with it igniting, that's not true of some other fuels though.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
Yeah, the flash point for most fuels (Paraffin, lamp oil, coleman, kero) is high enough so you can dunk a smoldering head in and it wont light up. As we know, most of the damage done to a head is while its smoldering so ya wanna put it out as soon as possible and this is the best way to do it.
Yeah, the flash point for most fuels (Paraffin, lamp oil, coleman, kero) is high enough so you can dunk a smoldering head in and it wont light up. As we know, most of the damage done to a head is while its smoldering so ya wanna put it out as soon as possible and this is the best way to do it.
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
PLATINUM Member
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Yes, I assumed that you should put your wicks out first... but I've had many occasions where simply spinning my smoldering poi in circles causes them to light back up again, just from the increased oxygen flow. It would scare me greatly to put them back in a full tin of fuel, but I guess I'll try it with an almost empty tin first.
*Flutters off to find a paint can*
Yes, I assumed that you should put your wicks out first... but I've had many occasions where simply spinning my smoldering poi in circles causes them to light back up again, just from the increased oxygen flow. It would scare me greatly to put them back in a full tin of fuel, but I guess I'll try it with an almost empty tin first.
*Flutters off to find a paint can*
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Millenium! STOP! An almost empty can is MORE likely to catch light than a full one.
But first, all this advice has been concerning kero/parrafin, lamp oil or solvent 3440 special.
Secondly, the less fuel you dunk hot wicks into, the less the fuel will cool down the wicks and the more the wicks will heat up the fuel.
Hotter fuel means there is more evaporation and the flashpoint decreases, making it more likely ot catch light...
Millenium! STOP! An almost empty can is MORE likely to catch light than a full one.
But first, all this advice has been concerning kero/parrafin, lamp oil or solvent 3440 special.
Secondly, the less fuel you dunk hot wicks into, the less the fuel will cool down the wicks and the more the wicks will heat up the fuel.
Hotter fuel means there is more evaporation and the flashpoint decreases, making it more likely ot catch light...
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PLATINUM Member
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Thanks a bunch, good to know.
Thanks a bunch, good to know.
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Can you let us know what your fuel is too? then I can perhaps be a little less worried about this advice as it only pertains to the above-mentioned substances...
Can you let us know what your fuel is too? then I can perhaps be a little less worried about this advice as it only pertains to the above-mentioned substances...
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NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I've never seen any evidence that soaking wicks after burning extends the life. But people will swear by it because someone better looking than them told them that once.
I used to drink vodka tonics on friday night and when I'd spin fire on Thursday my first set of wicks didn't last that long. Now I usually drink a vodka cranberry and my wicks show literally no wear after almost a year. So by drinking a vodka cranberry 6 days before spinning fire you will extend the life of you wicks. I have proof.
I've never seen any evidence that soaking wicks after burning extends the life. But people will swear by it because someone better looking than them told them that once.
I used to drink vodka tonics on friday night and when I'd spin fire on Thursday my first set of wicks didn't last that long. Now I usually drink a vodka cranberry and my wicks show literally no wear after almost a year. So by drinking a vodka cranberry 6 days before spinning fire you will extend the life of you wicks. I have proof.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
PLATINUM Member
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
I'm using Lamp Oil.
NYC, can we compromise and dip our wicks in Vodka Tonics?
I'm using Lamp Oil.
NYC, can we compromise and dip our wicks in Vodka Tonics?
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
at NYC.
I think the correct term is "dunking" after use, rather than "soaking".
Soaking, in my opinion, doesn't help much at all, but dunking does make a big difference, especially in preventing fraying...Well for tubecore staffs anyway...
at NYC.
I think the correct term is "dunking" after use, rather than "soaking".
Soaking, in my opinion, doesn't help much at all, but dunking does make a big difference, especially in preventing fraying...Well for tubecore staffs anyway...
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GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
My feeling is that it does help cos otherwise the wicks smoulder and you can see the smoke coming off.
My wicks seem to wear a lot better since I started to dunk straight after the burn.
quote:Are you talking about dunking them into fuel immediately they're extinguished?
Originally posted by NYC:
I've never seen any evidence that soaking wicks after burning extends the life. But people will swear by it because someone better looking than them told them that once.
I used to drink vodka tonics on friday night and when I'd spin fire on Thursday my first set of wicks didn't last that long. Now I usually drink a vodka cranberry and my wicks show literally no wear after almost a year. So by drinking a vodka cranberry 6 days before spinning fire you will extend the life of you wicks. I have proof.
My feeling is that it does help cos otherwise the wicks smoulder and you can see the smoke coming off.
My wicks seem to wear a lot better since I started to dunk straight after the burn.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
just lost .... evil init
2,474 posts
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posted:
if you are using a shellite mix thats a tad different as shellite will ignite at -26 degrees celcius. it also burns way way hotter so definately want to be super careful when u are using it. if it catchs on fire whatever u do dont acidently kick the tin over cos it will be really really bad and if u do dont pour water on it cos it floats and top and still burns.
https://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=001054#000017
if u want to make up two sets of identical wick and burn them soaking one after it has been burnt and let the other one smolder and burn it only once a night if after 90 burns they are still identical then i will believe you. otherwise im the devil so behave
QED
quote:yes and no, if your just using kero you can dunk ur wicks lite it might flame up for a bit but it will go out if you have lots of fuel and if its a cold night and if u only do it once. if its a warm night or you have done it a few times it can catch alight if it happens just put a lid or damp cloth (not a dunking rag) on top and it will cut out the oxygen supply and go out. whatever happens STAY CALM.
Many people say to dunk your wicks in your fuel after you burn. Isn't that dangerous? Couldn't you light the fuel on fire and have QUITE a mess?
if you are using a shellite mix thats a tad different as shellite will ignite at -26 degrees celcius. it also burns way way hotter so definately want to be super careful when u are using it. if it catchs on fire whatever u do dont acidently kick the tin over cos it will be really really bad and if u do dont pour water on it cos it floats and top and still burns.
quote:i have posted on this before
I've never seen any evidence that soaking wicks after burning extends the life. But people will swear by it because someone better looking than them told them that once.
https://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=001054#000017
if u want to make up two sets of identical wick and burn them soaking one after it has been burnt and let the other one smolder and burn it only once a night if after 90 burns they are still identical then i will believe you. otherwise im the devil so behave
QED
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
So basically believe a lie until it's proven wrong? Sounds like a 'cold fusion' experiment to me.
And dave, I wouldn't be surprised if it was true that soaking in them stops smoldering (which it does) and that smoldering noticably affects wicklife BUT since nobody bothers to test it, it's a bit silly to suggest it. It does bug me HOW MANY untested rumors have been played off as facts in the firespinning world.
So basically believe a lie until it's proven wrong? Sounds like a 'cold fusion' experiment to me.
And dave, I wouldn't be surprised if it was true that soaking in them stops smoldering (which it does) and that smoldering noticably affects wicklife BUT since nobody bothers to test it, it's a bit silly to suggest it. It does bug me HOW MANY untested rumors have been played off as facts in the firespinning world.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
Gotta resectfully disagree with you here NYC.
Firstly, I'm fully with you on the 'curing' issue.
There's not only no evidence that 'curing' does anything, but there's no rational reason I can think of to suggest that it would extend wick life either. (I know that someone recently did a long post on how curing doesn't directly affest wick life, but that in developing good dipping practice in newbies would prolong life. I didn't fully understand it).
However, prompt dipping, whilst it may lack experimental evidence, does have in its favour a rational reason why it would work i.e. undipped wicks smoulder and give off smoke, you can even sometimes see a 'red ember' effect on the kevlar; this suggests that damage is being done, that the actual wick is burning.
Prompt dipping stops this hence there is good reason to believe that it works.
Whilst experimental testing may establish that soaking has no effect, until that it done we have to make a decision to soak or not to soak, I think that soaking is preferable in this time of uncertainty becasue: -
soaking will not damage the wick, so there's nothing to lose; and, there seems to be a good reason for why soaking would prolong wick life.
Incidently NYC, if someone did set up a proper experiment to test whether soaking prolongs wick life, and you had to bet on the outcome, where would you put your money?
Gotta resectfully disagree with you here NYC.
Firstly, I'm fully with you on the 'curing' issue.
There's not only no evidence that 'curing' does anything, but there's no rational reason I can think of to suggest that it would extend wick life either. (I know that someone recently did a long post on how curing doesn't directly affest wick life, but that in developing good dipping practice in newbies would prolong life. I didn't fully understand it).
However, prompt dipping, whilst it may lack experimental evidence, does have in its favour a rational reason why it would work i.e. undipped wicks smoulder and give off smoke, you can even sometimes see a 'red ember' effect on the kevlar; this suggests that damage is being done, that the actual wick is burning.
Prompt dipping stops this hence there is good reason to believe that it works.
Whilst experimental testing may establish that soaking has no effect, until that it done we have to make a decision to soak or not to soak, I think that soaking is preferable in this time of uncertainty becasue: -
soaking will not damage the wick, so there's nothing to lose; and, there seems to be a good reason for why soaking would prolong wick life.
Incidently NYC, if someone did set up a proper experiment to test whether soaking prolongs wick life, and you had to bet on the outcome, where would you put your money?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Um... You can disagree with me if you like, but I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with.
We both agree that no one has ever tested the efficacy of dipping wicks after burning and that neither of us can say for sure if it affects the life of the wick.
We both have a gut feeling that soaking after burning could extend the life of the wick.
The difference is what we'd do with that information or lack of information. I would never say: "It's the best way to preserve your wick life cos wicks smoulder when extinguished and that is damaging" without evidence, and apparently you would.
You have a "feeling that it does help" and are willing to act and give advice on that 'feeling'... and I need more proof before I'd advocate something.
But if you do want to disagree with me, I assure you, you'd be in good company.
Um... You can disagree with me if you like, but I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with.
We both agree that no one has ever tested the efficacy of dipping wicks after burning and that neither of us can say for sure if it affects the life of the wick.
We both have a gut feeling that soaking after burning could extend the life of the wick.
The difference is what we'd do with that information or lack of information. I would never say: "It's the best way to preserve your wick life cos wicks smoulder when extinguished and that is damaging" without evidence, and apparently you would.
You have a "feeling that it does help" and are willing to act and give advice on that 'feeling'... and I need more proof before I'd advocate something.
But if you do want to disagree with me, I assure you, you'd be in good company.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
it's not a big dissagreement.
I guess I'd say that I agree with you about not posting curing stuff as fact cos there's no evidence or reason to support it.
But where dunking is concerned there is some decent reasoning behind it.
If experiments are done then my moneys on it being established.
So, here and now, given a choice between posting about the value of dunking, and not doing so, I reckon it's doing people a favour cos it'll help their wicks (if experimentation verifies it).
And, if I'm wrong, they don't loose anything anyway.
I must dispute this: -
it's not a big dissagreement.
I guess I'd say that I agree with you about not posting curing stuff as fact cos there's no evidence or reason to support it.
But where dunking is concerned there is some decent reasoning behind it.
If experiments are done then my moneys on it being established.
So, here and now, given a choice between posting about the value of dunking, and not doing so, I reckon it's doing people a favour cos it'll help their wicks (if experimentation verifies it).
And, if I'm wrong, they don't loose anything anyway.
I must dispute this: -
quote:It's not a feeling, it's rational conclusion drawn from the fact that non dunked wicks smoulder and smoke; smoke consists of small particles of material i.e. wick stuff, therefore my wick is going into the air, therefore the wick left is diminished.
Originally posted by NYC:
You have a "feeling that it does help" and are willing to act and give advice on that 'feeling'...
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
First you said:
My fundamental point is, was, and will remain:
I am unwilling to accept rumor and speculation (even LOGICAL speculation) as fact.
Rumors can turn out to be true, and educated guesses are right most of the time. But I wouldn't ever pass an educated guess as a fact. It certainly makes sense to me what you are suggesting about wick damage, but passing it along to newbies as fact becomes damaging. There are too many urban myths about firespinning.
(Again, though, I think we're both saying generally the same thing.)
quote:Dude, I was quoting YOU! That's why it was in quotes.
I must dispute this: -
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by NYC:
You have a "feeling that it does help" and are willing to act and give advice on that 'feeling'...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not a feeling, it's rational conclusion drawn from the fact that non dunked wicks smoulder and smoke; smoke consists of small particles of material i.e. wick stuff, therefore my wick is going into the air, therefore the wick left is diminished.
First you said:
quote:Then when I quoted you on that, you stated that you were disputing your own quote saying:
My feeling is that it does help cos otherwise the wicks smoulder and you can see the smoke coming off.
quote:But again, it's not a big dispute. I just didn't want you to think that I was putting words in your mouth.
It's not a feeling, it's rational conclusion drawn from the fact that non dunked wicks smoulder and smoke;
My fundamental point is, was, and will remain:
I am unwilling to accept rumor and speculation (even LOGICAL speculation) as fact.
Rumors can turn out to be true, and educated guesses are right most of the time. But I wouldn't ever pass an educated guess as a fact. It certainly makes sense to me what you are suggesting about wick damage, but passing it along to newbies as fact becomes damaging. There are too many urban myths about firespinning.
(Again, though, I think we're both saying generally the same thing.)
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Arrrgghhh1 There is only so much quoting and requoting this poor mod can handle...
(Takes off his moderators cap) I have to agree with NYC here. Especially when he says that you are absically saying the same thing
Saying that something is true because it sounds right is a very easy thing to do, but there is no way of knowing for certain without controlled testing.
Lets use an old joke Socrates made (translated) which uses logic to prove something silly. This logic could well prove irrefutable to an alien something that any human on earth would describe as "stupid".
Premise 1 : The dog is yours.
Premise 2 : The dog is a father
Therefore : The dog is your father
From a number of areas, these structure seems to make sense. It is only the fact that a dog cannot be the father of a human that disproves it.
And that is one single fact that must be known to find the flaw in the argument.
These facts are all over the world, just waiting to disprove urban myths and theories about the universe and so-called fire-performers 'knowledge'.
When passing on knowledge that is not knowingly backed up by experiments, it certainly helps to say "I feel" or "in my opinion".
This simply alleviates some of the stories that seem to be in our nature to unconsciously create as fact.
Well, thats how "I feel" about the subject anyway...
Arrrgghhh1 There is only so much quoting and requoting this poor mod can handle...
(Takes off his moderators cap) I have to agree with NYC here. Especially when he says that you are absically saying the same thing
Saying that something is true because it sounds right is a very easy thing to do, but there is no way of knowing for certain without controlled testing.
Lets use an old joke Socrates made (translated) which uses logic to prove something silly. This logic could well prove irrefutable to an alien something that any human on earth would describe as "stupid".
Premise 1 : The dog is yours.
Premise 2 : The dog is a father
Therefore : The dog is your father
From a number of areas, these structure seems to make sense. It is only the fact that a dog cannot be the father of a human that disproves it.
And that is one single fact that must be known to find the flaw in the argument.
These facts are all over the world, just waiting to disprove urban myths and theories about the universe and so-called fire-performers 'knowledge'.
When passing on knowledge that is not knowingly backed up by experiments, it certainly helps to say "I feel" or "in my opinion".
This simply alleviates some of the stories that seem to be in our nature to unconsciously create as fact.
Well, thats how "I feel" about the subject anyway...
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PLATINUM Member
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Thanks for the information everyone. I will definitely start dunking my wicks after use, just until the temperature cools enough to stop smoldering, but I don't think I'll leave them soaking. The idea of letting my wicks in a corrosive material for long periods of time doesn't seem like a great idea to me, and even if it won't do any harm, it'll put my mind at rest and prevent me from checking my wicks every few hours to make sure they're alright.
I understand the issue and argument you guys are having about curing, and I can't see how curing would help either. Although it is helpful to have an experiment done to prove something, it's not always neccisary. I agree with Charles: 'I think' or 'I believe' can be powerful statements.
Thanks for the information everyone. I will definitely start dunking my wicks after use, just until the temperature cools enough to stop smoldering, but I don't think I'll leave them soaking. The idea of letting my wicks in a corrosive material for long periods of time doesn't seem like a great idea to me, and even if it won't do any harm, it'll put my mind at rest and prevent me from checking my wicks every few hours to make sure they're alright.
I understand the issue and argument you guys are having about curing, and I can't see how curing would help either. Although it is helpful to have an experiment done to prove something, it's not always neccisary. I agree with Charles: 'I think' or 'I believe' can be powerful statements.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
BTW, for the newbies, I HAVE done a presoaking test and found, in my experiment, that presoaking a wick before a burn for hours or minutes makes no difference. So don't waste your time.
BTW, for the newbies, I HAVE done a presoaking test and found, in my experiment, that presoaking a wick before a burn for hours or minutes makes no difference. So don't waste your time.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
NYC-
I'd like to thank you for your posts because, prior to our debate, I had a belief that dunking was beneficial, but couldn't really have expressed why.
On my previous post it clicked and I again put forward: -
i.e. I'm putting it forward as a proof of the hypothesis that dunking extends wick life; unless someone can spot a flaw in the reasoning.
NYC-
I'd like to thank you for your posts because, prior to our debate, I had a belief that dunking was beneficial, but couldn't really have expressed why.
On my previous post it clicked and I again put forward: -
quote:I'd say that this isn't a speculation or an educated guess, but a rational conclusion drawn from observation (that undunked wicks give off smoke) and deduction (smoke is made of particles and the only available particles are kevlar, therefore the wicks are being damaged).
Originally posted by onewheeldave:
non dunked wicks smoulder and smoke; smoke consists of small particles of material i.e. wick stuff, therefore my wick is going into the air, therefore the wick left is diminished.
i.e. I'm putting it forward as a proof of the hypothesis that dunking extends wick life; unless someone can spot a flaw in the reasoning.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
member
51 posts
Location: LA... Pine Oregon
51 posts
Location: LA... Pine Oregon
Posted:
Howdy. well anyway. i'm way to cheap to get Kevlar wicks, or i'm just poor who cares. but i've used denim and towels. and no matter what i do dunk them after if fuel or water or not even dunking them. they turn out the same... maybe i'm just dumb eh? and to add. i use colemen stove fuel. nice and hot, but i've dunked red hot poi meany times in it and it just turns the fuel into alittle gas and it never goes up so eh WEEEEEEEEEE!
Howdy. well anyway. i'm way to cheap to get Kevlar wicks, or i'm just poor who cares. but i've used denim and towels. and no matter what i do dunk them after if fuel or water or not even dunking them. they turn out the same... maybe i'm just dumb eh? and to add. i use colemen stove fuel. nice and hot, but i've dunked red hot poi meany times in it and it just turns the fuel into alittle gas and it never goes up so eh WEEEEEEEEEE!
Nothing goes through the Lunitics dark mind... By his own Decaying HeartI love the little tacos... I love them goood G.i.rI'm gunna roll around on the floor for abit k? G.i.r
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
The smoke could be any number of things.
1) Unburned fuel residue. Clearly all of the fuel isn't used up, the wick goes out when there isn't enough fuel or oxygen or sufficient appropriate surface to spin on.
2) Parts of wick that have already burned up. So it's not the kevlar further breaking down, but the kevlar that's already broken down simply turning to vapor.
3) Impurities within the fuel. Since not ALL of the fuel is flammable (there will always be a certain level of imputiry within any fuel) whatever is left clearly doesn't burn well (or it would have burned) so it smoulders.
4) An insignificant amount of kevlar. Keep in mind that everything gives off particles, it's how we smell. That's like saying "I won't clean up the dog poo on my living room floor because, since I can smell it, it's clearly giving off particles and will soon be gone alltogether." It could take hundreds of years for the smouldering to have any noticable effect on the size or strength of the kevlar.
Or it could be something entirely different.
Or it could be the kevlar, degrading and quickly destroying your wick.
Is it possible that dunking after spinning allows more fuel to dry on the kevlar, which helps oxidize the metal weave in the kevlar? After all, liquids allow more oxygen to be in contact with the metal (which is why wet things rust faster) so redunking might make wicks rust and degrade faster.
Or maybe it attacks the metal and corrodes it?
Or maybe by dunking it you are cooling the metal components of your wick too quickly and weakening or cracking the metal bolts in your wick. A more gradual cooling may be less stressful than a drop of several hundred degrees in less than a second.
I don't know. I don't think so. But I'd never suggest it without evidence.
I'm just saying, there ARE other explanations. Again, I GUESS you're right. But without evidence I'm not willing to say.
For example, a statement like:
"Water puts out fire, so you should soak all of your clothes in water before spinning to be extra safe"
...is flat out dangerous. Since you will get far worse steam burns with wet clothing than with dry clothing. It is, actually, more dangerous to be spinning with soaking wet clothing than with dry clothing.
Just playing the 'what if' game...
Can't someone just try it? (I've got no virgin wicks)
The smoke could be any number of things.
1) Unburned fuel residue. Clearly all of the fuel isn't used up, the wick goes out when there isn't enough fuel or oxygen or sufficient appropriate surface to spin on.
2) Parts of wick that have already burned up. So it's not the kevlar further breaking down, but the kevlar that's already broken down simply turning to vapor.
3) Impurities within the fuel. Since not ALL of the fuel is flammable (there will always be a certain level of imputiry within any fuel) whatever is left clearly doesn't burn well (or it would have burned) so it smoulders.
4) An insignificant amount of kevlar. Keep in mind that everything gives off particles, it's how we smell. That's like saying "I won't clean up the dog poo on my living room floor because, since I can smell it, it's clearly giving off particles and will soon be gone alltogether." It could take hundreds of years for the smouldering to have any noticable effect on the size or strength of the kevlar.
Or it could be something entirely different.
Or it could be the kevlar, degrading and quickly destroying your wick.
Is it possible that dunking after spinning allows more fuel to dry on the kevlar, which helps oxidize the metal weave in the kevlar? After all, liquids allow more oxygen to be in contact with the metal (which is why wet things rust faster) so redunking might make wicks rust and degrade faster.
Or maybe it attacks the metal and corrodes it?
Or maybe by dunking it you are cooling the metal components of your wick too quickly and weakening or cracking the metal bolts in your wick. A more gradual cooling may be less stressful than a drop of several hundred degrees in less than a second.
I don't know. I don't think so. But I'd never suggest it without evidence.
I'm just saying, there ARE other explanations. Again, I GUESS you're right. But without evidence I'm not willing to say.
For example, a statement like:
"Water puts out fire, so you should soak all of your clothes in water before spinning to be extra safe"
...is flat out dangerous. Since you will get far worse steam burns with wet clothing than with dry clothing. It is, actually, more dangerous to be spinning with soaking wet clothing than with dry clothing.
Just playing the 'what if' game...
Can't someone just try it? (I've got no virgin wicks)
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
And another thing,
I've been spinning for two years.
I've never cured a wick.
I've never predunked a wick.
I've never dunked a wick after spinning.
I always let my wicks smoulder.
And I've never had a pair of wicks wear out.
So I really don't know what the big deal is.
And another thing,
I've been spinning for two years.
I've never cured a wick.
I've never predunked a wick.
I've never dunked a wick after spinning.
I always let my wicks smoulder.
And I've never had a pair of wicks wear out.
So I really don't know what the big deal is.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
PLATINUM Member
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
quote:The only difference is that if you can see the smoldering poi letting off smoke, there's enough particles being let off to be able to see the particles in the air - far more drastic than a smell alone.
"I won't clean up the dog poo on my living room floor because, since I can smell it, it's clearly giving off particles and will soon be gone alltogether."
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
once again, what you say SOUNDS sensible, but may have no grounding in fact at all.
As there are chemicals whose very nature is to be invisible, such as oxygen and carbon monoxide, then, perhaps different materials have different visual aspects to the molecules they give off.
Perhaps, say the smoke is 500 times denser than just the smell, but that 500 times is STILL insignificant in terms of weight or degradation.
Or say some molecules are HIGHLY visible compared to others, yet at much smaller volumes.
I hope this isn't taken as an attack, its simply pointing out how hard it is for most people not to think in this illogical logic form.
It's second nature to most of us, but that doesn't make it right.
once again, what you say SOUNDS sensible, but may have no grounding in fact at all.
As there are chemicals whose very nature is to be invisible, such as oxygen and carbon monoxide, then, perhaps different materials have different visual aspects to the molecules they give off.
Perhaps, say the smoke is 500 times denser than just the smell, but that 500 times is STILL insignificant in terms of weight or degradation.
Or say some molecules are HIGHLY visible compared to others, yet at much smaller volumes.
I hope this isn't taken as an attack, its simply pointing out how hard it is for most people not to think in this illogical logic form.
It's second nature to most of us, but that doesn't make it right.
HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
PLATINUM Member
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Hyperloops suck
595 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
I can't think of a single colored solid material which would give off a clear or any less-colored vapor... can you?
I can't think of a single colored solid material which would give off a clear or any less-colored vapor... can you?
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
I think you may be missing the point, Millenium.
It doesn't matter whether or not you or I can think of such a material.
The point is, the rationale you put forward was a perfect example of the "theory stated as a fact" that has been discussed in the previous posts.
I find that both amusing and a strong statement about how easy it is to fall into that trap...
I think you may be missing the point, Millenium.
It doesn't matter whether or not you or I can think of such a material.
The point is, the rationale you put forward was a perfect example of the "theory stated as a fact" that has been discussed in the previous posts.
I find that both amusing and a strong statement about how easy it is to fall into that trap...
HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Yup.. We're all still saying the same thing.
The "there's no reason why not to do this" arguement is pretty unscientific. But if it works for you, then keep doing it. The "There's no reason why not to do this so I'm going to advocate that others do it too and imply that there is a concrete reason why" I think is even more unscientific.
You guys can do whatever voodoo tricks you want that make you feel better about the life of the poi.
I would LOVE for someone to prove this. It would honestly make me happy. I have the same suspicions about it being effective. I'm just weary about the fact that the ENTIRE FIRESPINNING PLANET is advocating something that nobody's ever even tested.
And that's it.
Yup.. We're all still saying the same thing.
The "there's no reason why not to do this" arguement is pretty unscientific. But if it works for you, then keep doing it. The "There's no reason why not to do this so I'm going to advocate that others do it too and imply that there is a concrete reason why" I think is even more unscientific.
You guys can do whatever voodoo tricks you want that make you feel better about the life of the poi.
I would LOVE for someone to prove this. It would honestly make me happy. I have the same suspicions about it being effective. I'm just weary about the fact that the ENTIRE FIRESPINNING PLANET is advocating something that nobody's ever even tested.
And that's it.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I've been thinking that its been a real long time since any of my wicks wore out.
When I used to do a lot of fire club juggling years ago they'd get in a real state after a while.
But these days my poi wicks seem to hold up really well, even my fire ropes.
I assumed it was partly due to my dunking them, but I guess there could be lots of other explanations.
One could be that wick is higher quality these days; as I'm sure you know kevlar wick is not pure kevlar but has absorbent additives.
Maybe my wicks years back were low quality and thats why they seemed to not last so well.
I'd love to do a bit of a test but I've got no fresh wick either.
Is anyone out there up for settling this?
Given the difficulties of making two identical sets of wicks and going to the trouble of spinning each in identical ways for identical lengths of time; would it be acceptable to just take a couple of small squares and repeatedly light, let burn, then extinguish them, dunking one but not the other?
Obviously there may be issues concerning the fact that there could be differences between that and actually spinning full wicks, but it would be a lot easier to carry out and would establish whether dunking helps in that situation.
NYC, what do you think of the suggested experiment, any ideas to make it better?
quote:There is doubt in my mind now.
Originally posted by NYC:
I've never dunked a wick after spinning.
I always let my wicks smoulder.
And I've never had a pair of wicks wear out.
I've been thinking that its been a real long time since any of my wicks wore out.
When I used to do a lot of fire club juggling years ago they'd get in a real state after a while.
But these days my poi wicks seem to hold up really well, even my fire ropes.
I assumed it was partly due to my dunking them, but I guess there could be lots of other explanations.
One could be that wick is higher quality these days; as I'm sure you know kevlar wick is not pure kevlar but has absorbent additives.
Maybe my wicks years back were low quality and thats why they seemed to not last so well.
I'd love to do a bit of a test but I've got no fresh wick either.
Is anyone out there up for settling this?
Given the difficulties of making two identical sets of wicks and going to the trouble of spinning each in identical ways for identical lengths of time; would it be acceptable to just take a couple of small squares and repeatedly light, let burn, then extinguish them, dunking one but not the other?
Obviously there may be issues concerning the fact that there could be differences between that and actually spinning full wicks, but it would be a lot easier to carry out and would establish whether dunking helps in that situation.
NYC, what do you think of the suggested experiment, any ideas to make it better?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I'd get like 8 squares and glue them to pieces of metal. Then dunk them all simultaneously without looking at the numbers, then light them all simultaneously without looking at the numbers and waiting until they all burn out naturally. THEN, after you'd made them all, flip a coin. If it's heads always post dunk the odd ones and if it's tails then always post dunk the even ones. I'd look at the numbers which you'd written really small one some of the metals and only post dunk 4 or them.
Do this a bunch of times.
THEN get someone who knows nothing of the experiment, hand then a bucket with all 8 wicks in it, and say "Hey, pick which 4 look the most worn." Try it with a bunch of people.
Be advised that you ARE going to have times when the post dunking wicks ARE better off than the non post dunking wicks. In order to prove that there is any effect, it needs to hold true more than half the time you do the experiment.
How many times do you want to light them? I'll do this also...
I'd get like 8 squares and glue them to pieces of metal. Then dunk them all simultaneously without looking at the numbers, then light them all simultaneously without looking at the numbers and waiting until they all burn out naturally. THEN, after you'd made them all, flip a coin. If it's heads always post dunk the odd ones and if it's tails then always post dunk the even ones. I'd look at the numbers which you'd written really small one some of the metals and only post dunk 4 or them.
Do this a bunch of times.
THEN get someone who knows nothing of the experiment, hand then a bucket with all 8 wicks in it, and say "Hey, pick which 4 look the most worn." Try it with a bunch of people.
Be advised that you ARE going to have times when the post dunking wicks ARE better off than the non post dunking wicks. In order to prove that there is any effect, it needs to hold true more than half the time you do the experiment.
How many times do you want to light them? I'll do this also...
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
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