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Squeegee


member
Location: Olympia, WA, USA

Total posts: 18
Posted:Does anyone know anywhere in the states to acquire pure kerosene, with no additives? Apparently that's what airplane fuel is, but I see no easy way of obtaining that. I have found one store which sells pure kerosene as "Fire Water" but they sell it for something crazy like $6/liter.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
-Squeegee


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Sir_Sheep


Sir_Sheep

old hand
Location: Chester, UK

Total posts: 725
Posted:I know couple of ppl in the air engineering industry, who have access to pure kerosene, but over here at least, its strictly regulated and they refuse to obtain me any.

I suppose its for my own safety....


Spoiling Christmas for small children since 2003.

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Firewater isn't 'pure' kerosene at all.

It's an industrial cleaner that is used just like kerosene, but with additives in it to make it less melly and without the dye that is added for household.

Here in Nz it used to be called Pegasol 3440 Special but it has recently been changed to Solvent 3440 special.

Gulf Petroleum here in Auckland (a petrochemical wholesaler) is where I get mine from. And the smallest they can supply it in is a 20 liter container.

BUT be very careful when buying products that seem to be something else, best thing to do is to get an MSDS sheet for the product before purchasing it, and then compare it with household kerosene.

While 3440 is less smelly and less smokey than household kero, the fumes are a tiny bit MORE toxic due to the additives.

Admittedly, it's a very small, margin, but that margin could be different if you find an equivalent fuel over there.

Best of luck with the hunting and let us know how you get on please...


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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Total posts: 2474
Posted:i rang round trying to get hold of pure kero a while ago and they basically said show me a plane or go elsewhere but you know lots of water to flush out the toxins its all good

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:The original 'firewater' was banned in some places cos it had additives to remove the taste, which meant it was easy to drink it by mistake.

The additives themselves were toxic.

A guy years back a Sheffield guy got hold of a large supply of pure paraffin (kerosene) i.e. with none of the additives usually put in paraffin; he marketed this stuff as 'firewater'.

So, confusing, but firewater refers to these two different substances.

It's a real shame pure paraffin is almost impossible to obtain cos, in terms of toxicity, it's a lot better than the normal stuff.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Squeegee


member
Location: Olympia, WA, USA

Total posts: 18
Posted:Thanks for the info. I thought that the "fire water" was pure kero, made for fire blowers and eaters. I'm worried about putting the chemicals used in commercial kero into my mouth, so I'm looking for something that's pure, not something that necessarily tastes or smells good.

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Dont know much about fire eating/blowing but would lamp oil work?

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:firewater, firewater everywhere and not a clean fuel in sight!

does smell come into this? i reckon that any keen fwirler tend to end up smelling like the fuel they use


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Squeegee


member
Location: Olympia, WA, USA

Total posts: 18
Posted:Royal: Lamp oil tends to have lots of nasty additives as well.

Bender: Sorta, but it's not really important. The smell of normal kero gives me a headache. I don't know if pure kero smells different, but its being less toxic is what's important to me.


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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:heh heh toxic additives are like spice girls; less is more.

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:FOUND IT!!!!

After posting this I had a funny feeling that most petrochemicals aren't 'pure' in the sense that water or orange juice can be pure. This was just a very vague hunch from long long agao in my college days.

Then I found one of HoP's resident chemists, who
posted a better description...

quote: Paraffin is a mixture of solid hydrocarbons and Kerosine is a different mixture of liquid hydrocarbons... which can have a wide range of ingredients. So lots of different mixtures could be considered Kero as long as they have the same general mixture. Kinda like tomato soup, you and I could make it with slightly different ingredients and it'd still be tomato soup.

Since hydrocarbons are made by distilling crude oil it's really just a series of hydrocarbons that evaporate at aproximately the same temperature.
And, I also called a friend of mine who uses 'jet fuel' for his replica aircraft. He says you can buy it direct from the wholesaler like I buy my Solvent 3440. Or, at very high prices, you can buy it through some of the larger model/hobby stores.

I thin people may be confusing the fact that it is airplane fuel with the fact that it may behave like petrol. It doesn't it is much 'safer', and so if petrol is available to buy in large quantities, I seriously doubt there will be restrictions on jet fuel sales...

Can someone outside of New Zealand look into this for me please?


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* Is it the Truth?
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Dentrassi
GOLD Member since Apr 2003

Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 3044
Posted:quote: Dont know much about fire eating/blowing but would lamp oil work? hmmmm. i usually used firewater...cos everyone else does. lamp oil? from memory, lamp oil has a lower flash point that firewater/kero, meaning you will get more risk of flashback when breathing. i havent put this to the test yet.

does anyone have a firewater MSDS handy? the online MSDS search engines piss me off.


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Dentrassi...as already mentioned in this thread, Firewater is not an industry standard product.

The only way to get an MSDS for the firewater you use is to ask your supplier.

They are required by international law, to provide an MSDS with any chemical products they sell.

If they don't provide you with one, I would not buy it off them anymore, as they are jeopardising your health and safety to keep a secret. NOT THE WAY TO DO BUSINESS!!!


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
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Elemental


member
Location: Earth

Total posts: 9
Posted:Use a gas mask..... Just got one yesterday.... gonna be wicked for my costume.

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Elemental


member
Location: Earth

Total posts: 9
Posted:Reading trhough you were talking about fire breathing. What I find really easy to get the job done is 151 proof RUM. Its not an oil and if you swallow it it makes you feel all tingly inside.

P.S. Holding in your mouth for 2 minutes is quite the experience.


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Beth


Beth

Miss Whippy
Location: Cornwall & Oxford

Total posts: 1262
Posted:i use normal paraffin that i got from the garage. The stuff i got has about a 7 minute burn time and has quite a clean flame. Not sure about breathing/eating (wouldnt like to try personally) but for poi or staff, it works really well.

Also, i know someone in the airplane business and hes offered to get me some jet fuel (i declined coz i didnt really know what it was but now i will ask him to bring me back some! hurrah!) so ill be spinning with jet fuel soon

I guess i could get loads and so if anyones in cornwall they can have some!


Aim high and you'll know your limits, aim low and you'll never know how high you could have climbed.

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Squeegee


member
Location: Olympia, WA, USA

Total posts: 18
Posted:Elemental: I've been told that blowing with high-proof ethanol products almost guarantees you burnt lips. Have you tried?

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