Forums > Technical Discussion > Why not use gas ?
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85 posts
Location: Bangkok
85 posts
Location: Bangkok
Posted:
I did a search
And it seems that gas is the last thing to use with poi. But it is stated nowhere why gas is so bad.
For me gas seems to be the first thing to use since you can get it everywhere anytime (gasstations) at a cheap price and it burns quite bright too. I have had loads of spins with gas and had no problems.
OK, it is explosive, but if you do poi far enough away from the canister and take good care nothing "should" happen (Isnt Coleman explosive as well?). And the smell is not the best but in my oppinion kero is not better.
Anybody of you had bad experiences with gas or can explain some major disadvantages ?
thx
[ 14. July 2003, 06:03: Message edited by: PoiBox ]
I did a search
And it seems that gas is the last thing to use with poi. But it is stated nowhere why gas is so bad.
For me gas seems to be the first thing to use since you can get it everywhere anytime (gasstations) at a cheap price and it burns quite bright too. I have had loads of spins with gas and had no problems.
OK, it is explosive, but if you do poi far enough away from the canister and take good care nothing "should" happen (Isnt Coleman explosive as well?). And the smell is not the best but in my oppinion kero is not better.
Anybody of you had bad experiences with gas or can explain some major disadvantages ?
thx
[ 14. July 2003, 06:03: Message edited by: PoiBox ]
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
It burns really damn hot, meaning a)it destroys your wicks much faster b)it burns you much easier and c)burns faster which means shorter burnt imes. some people consider coleman fuel a bit risky for poi just because it transfers to easily onto clothing when your hit yourself and burns hotter then kero, gasoline is the same negatives only worse. I imagine it must burn bright as hell though, and you could get insane staff burnoff's with it. But it seems to risky for me.
It burns really damn hot, meaning a)it destroys your wicks much faster b)it burns you much easier and c)burns faster which means shorter burnt imes. some people consider coleman fuel a bit risky for poi just because it transfers to easily onto clothing when your hit yourself and burns hotter then kero, gasoline is the same negatives only worse. I imagine it must burn bright as hell though, and you could get insane staff burnoff's with it. But it seems to risky for me.
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
the major disadvantage is that is is _severely_ explosive, it is formulated to be so. the fumes given off by even one soaked wick can build up especially in an enclosed or windless area, and really create hazards. handling of the fuel is a major consideration. we tend to get comfortable with gas because we deal with it every day, but all we do is go from pump to container, and there's not really any handling involved. trust me, that's enough of a reason. plus the post combustion fumes given off are pretty icky too. there's just far more intelligent choices out there, so gas is last on a short list.
coleman is next up on the list because it burns pretty clean, but that doesn't bring it up the list much farther.
the major disadvantage is that is is _severely_ explosive, it is formulated to be so. the fumes given off by even one soaked wick can build up especially in an enclosed or windless area, and really create hazards. handling of the fuel is a major consideration. we tend to get comfortable with gas because we deal with it every day, but all we do is go from pump to container, and there's not really any handling involved. trust me, that's enough of a reason. plus the post combustion fumes given off are pretty icky too. there's just far more intelligent choices out there, so gas is last on a short list.
coleman is next up on the list because it burns pretty clean, but that doesn't bring it up the list much farther.
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member
442 posts
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
442 posts
Location: Rochester, NY, USA
Posted:
The fact that the emissions from burning gas are regulated by the government should tell you something about the dangerous fumes it puts off.
Not only for your personal use but also environmentally speaking.
Also, use of gasolene is regulated legally, where as it is not so much with Kero, Lamp Oil and White Gas. Which means that there is a greater likelihood of legal reprocussion is far more likely.
Gas fires are also more difficult to put out, and require an ABC fire extinguisher, not just a damp towel or fire blanket. Because they burn hotter they are more likely to spread.
Remember you are not supposed to just look at when it is on the poi but safety is also in the greater picture...when dealing with fire "What if's" must come into play, or else you are seriously comprimising your health and the well being of everything around you.
And, just to let you know, Kero is cheaper than gasolene and available at many gas stations.
The fact that the emissions from burning gas are regulated by the government should tell you something about the dangerous fumes it puts off.
Not only for your personal use but also environmentally speaking.
Also, use of gasolene is regulated legally, where as it is not so much with Kero, Lamp Oil and White Gas. Which means that there is a greater likelihood of legal reprocussion is far more likely.
Gas fires are also more difficult to put out, and require an ABC fire extinguisher, not just a damp towel or fire blanket. Because they burn hotter they are more likely to spread.
Remember you are not supposed to just look at when it is on the poi but safety is also in the greater picture...when dealing with fire "What if's" must come into play, or else you are seriously comprimising your health and the well being of everything around you.
And, just to let you know, Kero is cheaper than gasolene and available at many gas stations.
FYI: I am not Pele. If you wish to reply to me and use a short version of my name, use: PWB.
English? Who needs that? I'm never going to England. - Homer Jay Simpson
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Exactly what PWB and everyone else has said!
Not to mention that one of the emissions is Carbon Monoxide (CO), a horrible nasty nasty gas that kills people quite easily in enclosed spaces, and makes people sick regularly without them knowing. Some (controversial studies) point to long term exposure of even tiny amounts of CO as taking decades off peoples lives.
A more detailed look into CO can be found here as well DEFRA
It will light up with a "BANG!" and the tin will likely shoot off in any direction like a bullet, spraying burning fuel everywhere and over everyone OR the whole tin will expode, spraying shrapnel out like a bomb and STILL covering everything and everyone with burning petrol.
Oh yeah, and if you spill it and any of it happens to run into a city drain, you have to call the police and advise them that an explosive, toxic substance of floating through the sewer/drainage system and could explode at any moment.
Oh yeah, and there are all sorts of horrible nasty addidives in each brand now that are sometimes quite different to their competitors, so unless you get the MSDS sheets for all of them, you really don't know what the hell you are breathign in, or the rules for first aid etc etc.
And...
and...
and...
(please try to take my comments in a positive light, the reason i may be coming off as agressive is that the thought of anyone reading this thread and then using petrol make me quite ill.)
Exactly what PWB and everyone else has said!
Not to mention that one of the emissions is Carbon Monoxide (CO), a horrible nasty nasty gas that kills people quite easily in enclosed spaces, and makes people sick regularly without them knowing. Some (controversial studies) point to long term exposure of even tiny amounts of CO as taking decades off peoples lives.
quote:This was from this page Border Health
Carbon monoxide is an invisible gas with no smell...if inhaled attacks the red blood cells impeding the transportation of oxygen to the body causing headaches, loss of muscle control, nausea and severe chest cramps. Any suspicion of poisoning should be immediately reported to local medical emergency services.
A more detailed look into CO can be found here as well DEFRA
quote:Petrol fumes can be ingnited by someone nearby smoking, and unlike colemans, it won't light up with a "whoomp" and knock over the fuel tin.
OK, it is explosive, but if you do poi far enough away from the canister and take good care nothing "should" happen
It will light up with a "BANG!" and the tin will likely shoot off in any direction like a bullet, spraying burning fuel everywhere and over everyone OR the whole tin will expode, spraying shrapnel out like a bomb and STILL covering everything and everyone with burning petrol.
Oh yeah, and if you spill it and any of it happens to run into a city drain, you have to call the police and advise them that an explosive, toxic substance of floating through the sewer/drainage system and could explode at any moment.
Oh yeah, and there are all sorts of horrible nasty addidives in each brand now that are sometimes quite different to their competitors, so unless you get the MSDS sheets for all of them, you really don't know what the hell you are breathign in, or the rules for first aid etc etc.
And...
and...
and...
(please try to take my comments in a positive light, the reason i may be coming off as agressive is that the thought of anyone reading this thread and then using petrol make me quite ill.)
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member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
doesn't kero and coleman also give off carbon monoxide?
doesn't kero and coleman also give off carbon monoxide?
member
212 posts
Location: tampa fl usa
212 posts
Location: tampa fl usa
Posted:
I think anything that burns puts off some type of Carbon monoxide.I use whitegas not colemans but the ozark brand(wal-mart brand).Not only is it cheaper but it burns cleaner.colemans puts some type of additive in their fuel to try to mask the smell of the fumes.Which causes it to smoke and leave your wicks sooty. Plus it gives you real nasty black boogers.
For indoor shows we have a a cheap carbon monoxide alarm kind of like a smoke detector
we put that on the front of the stage.when we do show with poor ventalation it goes off quite a bit.
One night after a show someone asked me what
that alarm was. The guy just happened to be a Dr.
He invited me to try to place that alarm on my body while I spun to see what happened.
later when I got home I did just that by rigging it to a hat.the alarm went off the whole time I spun . Oh and I was outside at the time.
It went off the whole time with 50%lampoil 50% white gas.I didnt try pure lampoil due to all of my wicks having white gas in them .
As far as Gasoline it burns at a rate hotter than the kevlars melt point.so it will eat your wicks real fast. plus like everyone else said it blows up real easy.I have seen a guy use gasoline on a staff it did look pretty awsome.
I stoped watching this guy when he used it to breath fire.can you say "jackass"
I think anything that burns puts off some type of Carbon monoxide.I use whitegas not colemans but the ozark brand(wal-mart brand).Not only is it cheaper but it burns cleaner.colemans puts some type of additive in their fuel to try to mask the smell of the fumes.Which causes it to smoke and leave your wicks sooty. Plus it gives you real nasty black boogers.
For indoor shows we have a a cheap carbon monoxide alarm kind of like a smoke detector
we put that on the front of the stage.when we do show with poor ventalation it goes off quite a bit.
One night after a show someone asked me what
that alarm was. The guy just happened to be a Dr.
He invited me to try to place that alarm on my body while I spun to see what happened.
later when I got home I did just that by rigging it to a hat.the alarm went off the whole time I spun . Oh and I was outside at the time.
It went off the whole time with 50%lampoil 50% white gas.I didnt try pure lampoil due to all of my wicks having white gas in them .
As far as Gasoline it burns at a rate hotter than the kevlars melt point.so it will eat your wicks real fast. plus like everyone else said it blows up real easy.I have seen a guy use gasoline on a staff it did look pretty awsome.
I stoped watching this guy when he used it to breath fire.can you say "jackass"
I have been cursed with the imagination to envision it all
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
You should have asked him for his phone number so you could check back in with him in a year to see if he's still alive.
You should have asked him for his phone number so you could check back in with him in a year to see if he's still alive.
BRONZE Member
Magical Sock Dancer
255 posts
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Magical Sock Dancer
255 posts
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Posted:
I beleive there's a song called "we have no eyebrows and stumps for arms becasue we through gas on the fire" or something like that.
I wonder....
I beleive there's a song called "we have no eyebrows and stumps for arms becasue we through gas on the fire" or something like that.
I wonder....
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Yep, they do give off carbon monoxide, but nowhere near as much. I can't really claim to know the following facts myself directly, but I did talk to a chemist a few years ago who told me somthing similar to the following...
The faster and hotter something burns, the higher the percentage of CO in the fumes. This is due to CO forming the most when oxygen isn't readily avaialble, such as in the middle of 4 inch candlewick. The larger the item burning, the more CO will be released regardless of the external ventilation.
He also told me that this was all completely theoretical. The difference created by a large burning item might be measured in molecule numbers rather than percentage points.
But, anyway, gas, in my opinion, is a garaunteed way to hurt kill and maim yourself.
Yep, they do give off carbon monoxide, but nowhere near as much. I can't really claim to know the following facts myself directly, but I did talk to a chemist a few years ago who told me somthing similar to the following...
The faster and hotter something burns, the higher the percentage of CO in the fumes. This is due to CO forming the most when oxygen isn't readily avaialble, such as in the middle of 4 inch candlewick. The larger the item burning, the more CO will be released regardless of the external ventilation.
He also told me that this was all completely theoretical. The difference created by a large burning item might be measured in molecule numbers rather than percentage points.
But, anyway, gas, in my opinion, is a garaunteed way to hurt kill and maim yourself.
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