Jesse
member
Location: Pittsburgh, PA/ USA
Member Since: 3rd Jan 2001
Total posts: 118
Posted:Has anyone ever actually called a doctor (as recommended on most bottles of lamp oil, directly under the warning that "contents could be harmful or fatal if swallowed") to see what you should do if you accidentally swallow? Most bottles recommend that you NOT induce vomiting (I don't know why, as I vomited instantly and almost uncontrollably, the one and only time I accidently swallowed some lamp oil.) and call a doctor immediately. I was wondering if maybe I should carry some of those activated charcoal pills about in my kit. I know Pele keeps malox in her kit... Pele, have you ever consulted with a doctor on this? (Not that I'm not planning on finding out for myself if I can... But most doctors just seem to want me to "come in." And when I explain that I haven't swallowed any of it "yet" they get concerned that I'm making plans to swallow some... Only I'm not. Then confusion reigns as I try to explaint that I'm not ACTUALLY suicidal... I don't think. YES I have some rather dangerous hobbies, but... <and on, and on...>

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gάrbǿ
gάrbǿ

addict
Location: Bristol / London / Norwich / C...
Member Since: 9th Jan 2001
Total posts: 521
Posted:Ok heres the deal. The reason you are not to "induce vommiting" is that fuel does alot of damage on the way down (especially if it is hot) and if you vomit it will cause alot of damage coming back up again
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. Some people say that drinking milk is best
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although I suppose that is why when you start drinking your parents tell you to drink milk to lessen the effects and I really believe this to be true. There was a story in our local paper about a girl who swallowed something and she would have survived had she not chucked up as the suff burnt her really badly on its way out.peace outgarbo
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be excellent to each other: safe:

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Jesse
member
Location: Pittsburgh, PA/ USA
Member Since: 3rd Jan 2001
Total posts: 118
Posted:"Induce!" Nothing! I didn't have a CHOICE. It was COMING BACK WHETHER I WANTED IT TO OR NOT. But are we talking about chemical burns, or temperature burns? Most of the time, if I were it accidentally swallow fuel, it wouldn't be all that hot anyway...But that really isn't the point. What is the BEST way to deal with the poisons. I agree that in the presence of nothing else, milk is probably a good idea, because the fats in the milk will bond to some of the oil-based toxins... But what if we have the choice of ANYTHING WE WANT in our safety kit - what would be the most helpful? Milk is readily available and all, but I'm sure it isn't the most potent neutralizer on the market. (And it DOES have a tendency to spoil if left out... ew!)

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Posted:If you want serious answers to your questions, you might do better to not yell at people. (In Net speak, all caps is yelling.)Just an idea. Diana

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Jesse
member
Location: Pittsburgh, PA/ USA
Member Since: 3rd Jan 2001
Total posts: 118
Posted:The message wasn't all in caps, and if I could emphasize statements by using italics, I would. But I either have caps, or not caps. And I'm a very emphatic person. If I could make words come out of my mouth in font and color I would. You should see the letters I write my friends! I think that maybe sometimes people are a bit over sensitive to people's use of the net. Thank you for the informative gesture on your part, but I was already aware that use of caps was thought of as "shouting" in some circles. However, if there is no hateful content, and the intention is clearly not angry, why even bring it up? People are smart and will usually figure it out intent on their own. Rather than criticizing the way I choose to ask a question, how about trying to answer it? You seem to be a very professional person, Di, and I was really hoping that you would have some input on this topic. To summarize: I'm not here to offend, but to learn. And I'm defensive when I have pms

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.draevon
.draevon

member
Location: Androgen
Member Since: 12th Dec 2000
Total posts: 92
Posted:One of the main reason not to induce vomiting (Note: I understand you didn't induce it) ... is that when you vomit the fuel back up ... you're usually gasping for breath at the same time (as you do when you vomit) ... and there's a pretty big chance that your going to be sucking great wads of fuel vapours down into your lungs which will do you tremendous amounts of damage.Fuel is better off in your stomach than your lungs.raevon

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Alright,so as I mentioned on a different post (safety regimes) we are all red cross trained for advanced first aide, and one of my occassional safeties is an EMT (emergency medical technician).First of all, there is more of a risk of inhaling chemicals when you are first set to aspirate them than when/if you throw them back up Draevon. That is a rare occurance and more of a myth than anything. Usually fuels when swallowed are not hot, as Jesse said. It is the chemicals that burn the esophagus on the way down that are the problem. They will burn on the way back up and worse because they are mixed with stomach acid, which also burns. Also some people's esophagus will swell when suffering chemical burns, which can cause choking if vomiting is induced (this may be where Draevon got the into the lungs-choking part).Better than milk is buttermilk because of the high fat content, which will not only coat your throat but your stomach as well. It does not stop the burning, it only slows it down. We drink a bit of it before we go on stage, just in case. In our first aid kit is Maalox or Mylanta in case of accidental ingestion. This will not cure the problem however. You still have to go to the doctor. They will pump charcoal into your stomach (in this powdery-liquid form) which then nuetralizes the chemicals in the fuel. Then they pump your stomach to empty it of it's contents.It is not a pretty process and can take anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour.Moral of the story, ladies and gents, spit don't swallow!
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Jesse
member
Location: Pittsburgh, PA/ USA
Member Since: 3rd Jan 2001
Total posts: 118
Posted:<putting on her "discussion moderator's hat">All right. Let's please not talk about vomiting anymore. <looking a little green> We've established that that isn't the correct course of action once you've swallowed. But where do we go from there? Straight to ER? Do we have our stomaches pumped? Do we take Maalox? (sp?) Has anyone actually ever discussed this with a doctor?(Is there a doctor in the house?) It's been forever since I've had first aid training. Do they even say anything about poisoning?The more I wonder about this, the more questions I have... (And they keep getting more and more morbid too, as my imagination runs away with me.) Why (chemically) are petrolium products poisonous?<wanders off on her own mental ramble>

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Jesse
member
Location: Pittsburgh, PA/ USA
Member Since: 3rd Jan 2001
Total posts: 118
Posted:oop. Pele replied while I was replying. Thank you! That's what I wanted to know. Buttermilk. Activated charcoal pills. Then too the doctor.

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Posted:Jesse, sister, please let me explain a couple things. First when I say all caps, I mean ALL CAPS instead of sentence case. It doesn't have to be all caps for the whole message to be yelling. I always explain how caps can be interpretted on the Net so people don't get confused. Please understand that when I read all caps on the Net, I actually hear yelling in my head. I, personally, don't appreciate being yelled at of witnessing others being yelled at, whether it's on the Net or in a letter or in person. Also, as a side note, for emphasis a lot of folx use asterisks. Like if I want to say something *really* important without appearing like I'm yelling that's what I'd do. I can even be ***really emphatic*** if I want to. Now, maybe I didn't read thoroughly enough. To be honest, I tuned out when I got the yelling part. It seems to me like you asked a couple of questions including why not induce vomiting. When garbo answered it, the reaction I felt was not hateful, but sure could have been interpretted as angry. Angry because garbo only addressed your inducing question with no acknowledgement of your, um, you know. I think my interpretation and reaction was resonable. I sure didn't bring it up to tell you to be a know-it-all. Perhaps I could have couched it in a different way. I didn't know you'd have such a strong reaction to my message. My apologies, Diana

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Jesse
member
Location: Pittsburgh, PA/ USA
Member Since: 3rd Jan 2001
Total posts: 118
Posted:Di: no offense meant - no offense taken.I was mostly frustrated that people took hold of (what I considered to be) a meaningless aside like a pitt with a rag doll and totally ignored the question that I considered to be *important*. Which brings me to an important net-grammar question. Are * like quotation marks where the punctuation goes inside, or like parenthesis where the punctuation goes outside?And now that I have my computer at home up and running, I won't have to do this from work anymore. Work- where I am always at least partially distracted and can accidentally write something that offends much more than it was meant to. Sorry to all who may have found me to be an irritation today.

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psychomonkey
member
Location: Kansas City, MO USA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2000
Total posts: 148
Posted:Yes- definitely activated charcoal take about six capsule. I spoke with a nurse about this, and she actually recommended doing 2 before every show anyway (when I was entertaining notions of doing fire eating). And Diana, while I realize that all caps is annoying to you, it annoys me when people point that out. Perhaps Malcom will put a netiquette page up, when you sign up for UBB. No offense, I just get sick of seeing that message on Usenet.-PSM

One can only see what one observes, and one observes only things which are already in the mind.-Alphonse Bertillon

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Bish_the_Ding
member
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Member Since: 1st Jan 2001
Total posts: 52
Posted:Just a FYI (is that shouting?)'Maalox' is derived from MAgnesium, ALuminium OXide and is an alkaline solution for neutralising stomach acid - I'm not sure how how effective it would be at neutralising the toxic effects of fuels.Guess prevention is better than cure, maybe chomping charcoal and buttermilk *before* a show would lessen the damage by effectively trapping and encapsulating the fuel while you zoom off to the quack to have it pumped out ...Maybe some of the more brainy amongst us should concentrate on developing a truely safe fuel aswell as appropriate safety measures. How about it ?I just got my grubby little mitts on some Lithium Chloride (red fire, ne ?), now A: I hear it's and anti-depressant, and B: I've got the industrial grade stuff ! So now I'm worried that inhaling Lithium fumes is going to zonk me right out of doing poi and into, shit, hatmaking or something like that!Do me a favour, if I start posting crazy, ill shit, send someone around to take the lithium *away*BTW thanks Diana for permanently changing the way I read ! I make up voices for all of you guys and read your stuff in those voices. It's a real gas having them SHOUTING and ***emphasizing*** things !Y'all be goodBish

Hasst du etwas zeit fuer mich?... Dan singe ich ein lied fuer dich ... -Bjork/Nena

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Posted:I'll take a bit of gentle ribbing on this, but *don't push it*. OK? Let's see. Maybe I have some actual ideas to contribute and the testy ones in the crowd will forgive me.
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First, I've also heard the "myth" of aspirating into lungs as well, though I have no authentication. Maalox and the like are good for gas that you might get from fire eating (don't know if that's a side effect of blowing as well.) Milk/buttermilk and the like I understand that the fat actually bonds to the chemical molecules in a protective fashion, so it may be more helpful than you think. Charcoal is, like Pele said, what they use in the hospital for swallowing fuel. So I keep tabs in my case for fire eating. I take two after every time I play, because I know I've absorbed some small about of the chemicals. Now, I'm no expert on this sort of thing. I supposed if I was an actual practicing fire breather, I'd arm myself with more knowledge of such things. I trust the more experience and those who've actually consulted medical personnel on this. Feel free to correct anything I've written. Diana


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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Maalox and such over the counter ant-acids don't nuetralize anything Bish, but like the fat in milk they slow it down so that you can get to a hospital. This is all if you swallowed the mouthful you intended to aspirate. I was taught that as long as you don't swallow and you eat something substantial (read...not a salad) after a show all will be fine, and it has been. The bit of buttermilk before acts as a buffer to anything I might accidentally ingest and since my fire eating show is very involved, this is one area I am well armed in.I had never thought of the charcoal caplets mainly because if there is no need for them they can make you nauseous (didn't someone say they take some after every show?). Usually a swig of buttermilk or if that can't be supplied then Maalox before and after is fine, as long as you didn't try to do shots of Kero or anything. BTW the acid in your stomach is actually stronger than the acid found in most fuels, but the stomach acid is natural to our systems and therefore not as toxic (unless you have ulcers). I also have the understanding from my trainging course that if you have ulcers you **should not** be breathing fire anyway, the possibilty of any swallowed fuel irritating the ulcer is pretty nasty I guess, and actually promotes further ulceration to the stomach lining.Just a couple of things I thought I'd clarify and add.
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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vyvyan
vyvyan

journeyman
Location: tell me when you find me
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 92
Posted:Just my 2 cents: I must be sooooo slack cos Chris and I firebreathed and ate of nearly 6 hours last night, and into the wind (not our choice) and funnily, neither of us swallowed fuel, as occasionally we take just abit down on stage. Last night it was a film shoot and all we had to do was eye off a car and do fire. We concluded that its the breathing hard thru the nose while cranking it on stage that does it to you, and doing it into the wind is f*@ked as you all know. My theory on what to do when taking down a big gulp- dont do it in the first place. Prevention is better than cure.I hold the fuel with my tongue so it has no contact with my teeth or the back of my throat. Consequently I only absorb whats in my gums/soft tissue and a bit in spit. A thorough wash out, teeth scrub and very unladylike hacking and HAAAAAAWWGHK-ing (sorry Di) session follows, then makeup remover/exfoliant, moisturiser and lip balm. That did the trick last night and always has. Maybe its the fuel I use? I too have been told by a doctor that Mylanta is the go, and I agree with Pele's buttermilk theory. But the fuel I use doesnt seem to do any of the nasty shit you guys are talking about...if I took a gulp then I would feel crappy the next day, have tasty burps and thats about it. Also I would drink craploads of water to flush it all out. Sure, I'll get cancer soon, but thats why they pay me so much, teeheeeeheeeee.(hack cough vomit..)Oh yeh! The Holden ad was HARD. We'll put a speil on it on the website for y'all soon.sooty fingers and fuel spew, ( i am a naturally gross person)kerri.

...Firebreathing? Magic is only part of it my friend, diet does the rest!

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The Cabiri
member
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Member Since: 13th Dec 2000
Total posts: 20
Posted:wow, what an icky subject... but one that may affect any of us at a given moment, eh?well, my only experience with this sort of thing was one night, when I first started fire-breathing (we use only paraffin lamp oil for this), I accidentally swallowed just a little bit.I called the local 'poison control center' and they advised me that it would act like a 'laxative' and that it may cause some cramping and stomach pain, but to just let it run its course since the amount was so small.alas, it was pretty uncomfortable for a day or so, but I survived. and haven't made that mistake since!Charly

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xaeda
xaeda

member
Location: Sydney, Australia
Member Since: 16th Dec 2000
Total posts: 129
Posted:hey bish
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Congrats on getting lithium chloride......what's your secret??
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Um, yeah, it is an antidepressant, but not in a happy loopy kinda way. If I remember correctly, it's used to help stabilise people with bipolar disorder (aka manic depression, where moods go waaaay up and waaaay down). But, it's also pretty toxic......if you double the theraputic dosage it can kill!! Ouch
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So yeah, it's most likely not gonna make you loopy. But do be careful with it, don't do it too often, don't do it in long sessions, and be really careful about not inhaling the dust. (oh, and can you send me some too?) ;-)x
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the memories fire, the rhythm falls slow....

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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted:*the mother of all bumps*

Just thought Ide bump the earlyest post I could find in social, I found it on page 373 posted way back in 2001, (21st on Jan) musta been before the other forums exsisted since its not really the kind of social post we have now-a-days ubblol lol

ubbloco weavesmiley juggle I was hopeing it would be more fun to read but its not... so I'll funky it up with gremlins juggle cool weavesmiley ubbloco



beerchug beerchug ubbidea weavesmiley hug ubbrollsmile wink smile rolleyes


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:B-J this is the 3rd (maybe) incarnation of the bb as well. It had been around a couple years even before these posts were made.
First of all, thanks for bumping it as what memories it brings! I still miss some of those people on HoP, and some I talk to in other ways still. The bb was very different then, and not nearly as off topic based as now.

As for the actual topic of it..since the last post I have been able to (inadvertantly) confirm Charly's statement of swallowed lamp oil acting as a laxative...yucko! And so do too many charcoal caplets...worse. So the whole taking 6 is a baaaad idea.
A couple after a heavy duty session does help though.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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linden rathen
linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 2nd Mar 2005
Total posts: 6942
Posted:woot a useful thread

in the social chat?

what madness is this tongue

good bump though smile


back

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