Forums > Technical Discussion > The temperature outside's affect on burning...
Login/Join to ParticipateNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Now that winter is in full bloom again in my half of the planet we've been spinning in pretty cold weather and I've noticed that the poi act differently depending on the outside temperature.
Have y'all noticed that as well?
I've always been a bit confused as a science guy that a shift of 20 degrees Celcius in the outside temperature has a radical effect on poi which are burning at a few HUNDRED degrees but it does seem to affect it greatly.
I know that lighting the poi can be more difficult in the cold because the vapor pressure of the liquids is different in the cold (so it's less volatile) but it even seems like the poi BURN colder in the cold weather. Less transfers, whitegas is a bit more tame, etc...
Am I crazy?
Now that winter is in full bloom again in my half of the planet we've been spinning in pretty cold weather and I've noticed that the poi act differently depending on the outside temperature.
Have y'all noticed that as well?
I've always been a bit confused as a science guy that a shift of 20 degrees Celcius in the outside temperature has a radical effect on poi which are burning at a few HUNDRED degrees but it does seem to affect it greatly.
I know that lighting the poi can be more difficult in the cold because the vapor pressure of the liquids is different in the cold (so it's less volatile) but it even seems like the poi BURN colder in the cold weather. Less transfers, whitegas is a bit more tame, etc...
Am I crazy?
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
some of it may have to do with humidity or lack of which is pretty much non-existant in the winter
some of it may have to do with humidity or lack of which is pretty much non-existant in the winter
SILVER Member
Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
743 posts
Location: South Lake Tahoe, USA
Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
743 posts
Location: South Lake Tahoe, USA
Posted:
Your not Crazy.
It is diffrent in the cold.
I mix a bit of white gass/ colman fuel in with my lamp oil in the winter. It sparks alot easyer!
They also will not burn as long, in extreem cold, I haven't found out how to remidy that, other than just re-doucing and starting over.
~FS
Your not Crazy.
It is diffrent in the cold.
I mix a bit of white gass/ colman fuel in with my lamp oil in the winter. It sparks alot easyer!
They also will not burn as long, in extreem cold, I haven't found out how to remidy that, other than just re-doucing and starting over.
~FS
FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
I've wondered about that myself, NYC, and have come up with a few very unscientific theories...
1. My staff absorbs more heat from the flame as it is in contact with colder air.
2. More fuel gets spun off instead of lighting due to the higher flashpoint it has.
3. Altered perception of firies due to less sunlight during the day.
Tnhey are probably all codswallop, especially as the winters her ein auckland are pretty tame, barely getting below 0...
I've wondered about that myself, NYC, and have come up with a few very unscientific theories...
1. My staff absorbs more heat from the flame as it is in contact with colder air.
2. More fuel gets spun off instead of lighting due to the higher flashpoint it has.
3. Altered perception of firies due to less sunlight during the day.
Tnhey are probably all codswallop, especially as the winters her ein auckland are pretty tame, barely getting below 0...
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NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
I like #3. Seasonal Affective Disorder for fire twirling.
Since there is less daylight most people get depressed and therefore the fire LOOKS less impressive because everything is less impressive. I hadn't taken into account the psyco-physiological affect of the lack of daylight. Perhaps if I take some St. Johns Wort to stablize my moods the fire will look bigger.
I'm not sold on humidity. I've spun in the summer in nice weather and in pouring rain and it doesn't seem to affect it that much... believe it or not...
I like #3. Seasonal Affective Disorder for fire twirling.
Since there is less daylight most people get depressed and therefore the fire LOOKS less impressive because everything is less impressive. I hadn't taken into account the psyco-physiological affect of the lack of daylight. Perhaps if I take some St. Johns Wort to stablize my moods the fire will look bigger.
I'm not sold on humidity. I've spun in the summer in nice weather and in pouring rain and it doesn't seem to affect it that much... believe it or not...
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
member
531 posts
531 posts
Posted:
The only thing I think I might be able to shed some light on is the flame not burning as hot.Heat goes from hot to cold and in any area the temperature attempts to equalize.So when you light a wick on fire and it's burning at a couple hundred degrees in an area surrounded by cold air the heat from the flame will start to equalize the temperature of air around it.Thus the reason it is warmer around you when spinning and why the flame does not seem as hot.This even occurs during the summer being that the normal temp of the air in the summer is still not as hot as the wicks get.If you don't understand what I'm getting at,SORRY.
The only thing I think I might be able to shed some light on is the flame not burning as hot.Heat goes from hot to cold and in any area the temperature attempts to equalize.So when you light a wick on fire and it's burning at a couple hundred degrees in an area surrounded by cold air the heat from the flame will start to equalize the temperature of air around it.Thus the reason it is warmer around you when spinning and why the flame does not seem as hot.This even occurs during the summer being that the normal temp of the air in the summer is still not as hot as the wicks get.If you don't understand what I'm getting at,SORRY.
BRONZE Member
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
3,989 posts
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posted:
Humidity makes a big difference for my burnoffs.
The higher the humidity the smaller the explosions. Air temperature seems to be less of an issue if the humidity is high...
I'd hazard (spelling??) a guess that low humidity (bigger explosions) is better for fire, and so it should be a good thing during winter.
Rain isn't necesarily humidity though, its befor asnd after the rain that the humidity hits the roof, rain is just big drops of water falling through dry air, It think
Humidity makes a big difference for my burnoffs.
The higher the humidity the smaller the explosions. Air temperature seems to be less of an issue if the humidity is high...
I'd hazard (spelling??) a guess that low humidity (bigger explosions) is better for fire, and so it should be a good thing during winter.
Rain isn't necesarily humidity though, its befor asnd after the rain that the humidity hits the roof, rain is just big drops of water falling through dry air, It think
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member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
charles I think #2 is a pretty good one. Just a few days ago my friend was spinning poi and a lot more fuel was spinning off then normal, I thought he must not have spun them off before he lit but maybe it was the temperature. I kept getting hit in the face with hot kero.
I don't think the temperature diffrence with the staff absorbing heat or the equilibrium theory are the best because heat capacity doesn't change with temperature as far as I know.
also #3 is a hilarious suggestion that may also have some merrit.
charles I think #2 is a pretty good one. Just a few days ago my friend was spinning poi and a lot more fuel was spinning off then normal, I thought he must not have spun them off before he lit but maybe it was the temperature. I kept getting hit in the face with hot kero.
I don't think the temperature diffrence with the staff absorbing heat or the equilibrium theory are the best because heat capacity doesn't change with temperature as far as I know.
also #3 is a hilarious suggestion that may also have some merrit.
member
195 posts
195 posts
Posted:
one might imagine that the fire would actually burn hotter since cold air is more dense and there's more O2 to burn...
but did I read the question wrong? NYC asked if the poi acted differently in cold (Hey, YOU! let me go! put me out! etc)... making me think it took a right instead of a left...
one might imagine that the fire would actually burn hotter since cold air is more dense and there's more O2 to burn...
but did I read the question wrong? NYC asked if the poi acted differently in cold (Hey, YOU! let me go! put me out! etc)... making me think it took a right instead of a left...
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
"The higher the humidity the smaller the explosions" would suggest that in New York summers (very humid) there are smaller fireballs than winters (very dry) which is not true.
And in pouring rain, the humidity would have to be 100%.
As for oxygen content, I don't think that it would have that much to do with it as the % doesn't vary much due to subtle differences in temperature. Also, speed at which you're spinning would have greater impact on O2 than the temp or density.
I'm leaning towards vapor pressure.
I'll have to ask my local fireman. Y'all do the same if you can.
"The higher the humidity the smaller the explosions" would suggest that in New York summers (very humid) there are smaller fireballs than winters (very dry) which is not true.
And in pouring rain, the humidity would have to be 100%.
As for oxygen content, I don't think that it would have that much to do with it as the % doesn't vary much due to subtle differences in temperature. Also, speed at which you're spinning would have greater impact on O2 than the temp or density.
I'm leaning towards vapor pressure.
I'll have to ask my local fireman. Y'all do the same if you can.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
member
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
1,591 posts
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Posted:
humidity is actual water being held by the atmosphere. Rain sometimes happens when the humidity builds up to much and something causes the atmosphere to release it, causing a summer rain. You can have rain in very low humidity because it is being formed way up in the clouds and it is falling down through dry air. Now the rain falling may raise the humidity just because of all the contact of air and water I don't know. It could also cause latent water in the air to condense on the rain droplets due to the colder temperature of them and lower the humidity.
[ 03. January 2003, 12:33: Message edited by: Astar ]
humidity is actual water being held by the atmosphere. Rain sometimes happens when the humidity builds up to much and something causes the atmosphere to release it, causing a summer rain. You can have rain in very low humidity because it is being formed way up in the clouds and it is falling down through dry air. Now the rain falling may raise the humidity just because of all the contact of air and water I don't know. It could also cause latent water in the air to condense on the rain droplets due to the colder temperature of them and lower the humidity.
[ 03. January 2003, 12:33: Message edited by: Astar ]
SILVER Member
Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
743 posts
Location: South Lake Tahoe, USA
Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
743 posts
Location: South Lake Tahoe, USA
Posted:
Rain or snow, I haven't noticed much of a diffrance. I think the fire evaporates it quikly. Heavy rain is a diffrent story!
Oohh don't tell me about Light Deprevation!!
I lived in Alaska for the last 4 Years!
I will never stay another winter there! 2-3 hrs of daylight is the shits!
Rain or snow, I haven't noticed much of a diffrance. I think the fire evaporates it quikly. Heavy rain is a diffrent story!
Oohh don't tell me about Light Deprevation!!
I lived in Alaska for the last 4 Years!
I will never stay another winter there! 2-3 hrs of daylight is the shits!
FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
okay it has been said by folks in my crew that coleman's is the culprit here. in cold weather the fumes don't rise, they sink. so if you play with coleman's in the cold with no wind be careful, or else you will create a pocket of fumes close to the ground that will burn the hair off everybody's calves. well, everybody but mike, he shaves his legs. (*cough*sissy*cough*)
okay it has been said by folks in my crew that coleman's is the culprit here. in cold weather the fumes don't rise, they sink. so if you play with coleman's in the cold with no wind be careful, or else you will create a pocket of fumes close to the ground that will burn the hair off everybody's calves. well, everybody but mike, he shaves his legs. (*cough*sissy*cough*)
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
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