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Forums > Technical Discussion > Cathedral poi construction question

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sunn604


member


Total posts: 2
Posted:Hi,
I am in the process of constructing my very first fire poi. I used the cathedral style construction and hold it together with a large screw and two lock nuts on the bottom.
As this obviously leaves me with a scary amount of exposed metal on the bottom of the poi, I tried to come up with a better way:
I put the screw only through all but the last layer of wick and have the last layer cover the metal.
Hopefully there will be a picture of it here:

Non-Https Image Link


So my question is: Does this sound like a good or rather bad idea? The benefit is obviously less exposed metal. On the bad side, the last layer is dangling on its own and will probably get burnt and damaged more easily.

What do you guys think?


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Locofly


member
Location: New York (its not as cool as y...

Total posts: 62
Posted:ask [adamrice] who frequents this joint. the ones he makes are "blind rigged" with no exposed metal. he'll be able to tell you. the wicks he makes rock. *cough* plug *cough*.

From the makers of soylent green.

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

Total posts: 1017
Posted:I have seen these like this before and the bolt still wears through the bottom layer of wick. I have never had a problem with this metal bolt that sticks out. My own personal chains are short enough to not hit my face with internal moves. However you should file off any sharp edges and make it as flush as possible.

*cough* yes, Adam Rice makes fine gear *cough*


May your balls always burn

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Fire By Riz tm


member
Location: tampa fl usa

Total posts: 212
Posted:sunn604
your idea will work but with that bottom piece hanging down like that will allow it to burn fuel faster than the rest of your wick and it will burn out the wicks rather quickly and as Malcom said your bolt will be exposed you can do a couple things to fix what my 1st idea to solve your problem is sew the bottom flap of your wick toghter to the rest if the wick that will kep the mass amount of air from getting under it
and make it last longer before the bolt comes poking out if you can find kevlar thread it works great if not try un doing some of your wicking and using the kevlar thread in it to sew the wick toghter.. next idea is to expoxy it toghter but you will lose at ablity to absorb as much fuel your other option would to make blind rigged wicks i do something simalar
to what adam rice shows you on his page and have no problems what so ever and i have made hundreds of wicks with blind hardware i find it well worth the time to make them for all the burns it saves..good luck i hope this helped


I have been cursed with the imagination to envision it all

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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:I've been working with the blind-rigged bottom, similar to what you show, Sunn. It's also true that the bottom layer will burn off, sooner or later. I've been working on trying to make that later, obviously.

As near as I can tell, the reason the bottom burns off is because the underlying metal gets hot and stays hot, breaking down the kevlar. What to do about this? Minimize the amount of metal, and insulate it. I believe I've already approached the minimum amount of metal--I don't use a through-bolt in my design, but a cable instead. I add an extra pad of kevlar between the hardware and the bottom fold, and glue the lot in place (though I have spotty luck with the glue). I've thought about using ceramic washers, which would have less thermal mass (I think), but they're terribly expensive--about $2.50 per washer, compared with about $0.05 per washer for a normal steel one. Not sure how they'd hold up.

The bottom hanging loose will also be a cause of additional wear, but I don't think that is as problematic as the hot harware underneath.

[ 05 November 2002, 05:11: Message edited by: adamrice ]


Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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FireMecca
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

member
Location: Tucson

Total posts: 69
Posted:After researching ceramics some, I'm fairly confident that ceramic hardware could drastically reduce thermal loading. Teflon, being a thermoplastic, could also work and is "cheap." The highester temperature I found for Teflon washers was 500 degrees F, however.
At Borges Technical Ceramics I have found cheap washers, but have yet to ask them for technical data.

Flamma Aeterna


That which does not kill me, only makes me stranger.

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sunn604


member


Total posts: 2
Posted:So if the major problem is the heat of the metal, wouldnt this design be better than having exposed metal on the bottom?
I would expect the metal to heat up much more if it sits on the outside inmidst the flames than if it hidden away in the wick. The inside of the poi should be way cooler than the outside, shouldnt it?


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FireMecca
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

member
Location: Tucson

Total posts: 69
Posted:All but one of my designs has been with hidden hardware, not including rings for multiple wicks. The end has been burned/worn away regardless. If you hide the hardware, though, at least the outside gets burnt away first, and the washer remains "tight" on the next layer.
Keep in mind that if treated well, the wicks last a while regardless. I use roughly 4 feet of wick per head, most everything based on Adam's design. some year old wicks are just now becoming crappy. They have been used probably only moderately (~1-2 times a week). If you are making your own heads, it is not that expensive to replace them every 6-12 months.

FA


That which does not kill me, only makes me stranger.

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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:Sunn--

One layer of wicking probably does provide some insulation, but not a lot. I'm sure the metal in there is still getting quite hot. You'd probably have to go more than 1/8" inside the wick (the thickness of one layer) to find significantly lower temperatures.


Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:So THAAATS why my new eyebolt cathedrals are wearing out much quicker than my old bootleg wire-hanger wicks (which last forever)... I thought it was because I did not pre-soak them in lamb's blood before spinning them the first time.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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FireMecca
BRONZE Member since Oct 2002

member
Location: Tucson

Total posts: 69
Posted:Hmm, lamb's blood. Perhaps we need pyro-priests to bless our virgin wicks before their fiery sacrifice. Someone should investigate the possibility of ritual circles to enhance our poi.

FA


That which does not kill me, only makes me stranger.

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Fire By Riz tm


member
Location: tampa fl usa

Total posts: 212
Posted:Nyc you have to use virgan lamb's blood and soak the wicks only on a tues under a full moon
while listening to barry manilows greatest hits
on cd .Then and only then will your wicks have everlasting life :::::laughs::::::::;

I have been thinking about making some eye bolt
wicks for a marketing tool while welding a little "R" on the bottom of the bolt. Just to see how many pictures i can get of people branded with my R ;;;;;;;;;;;laughs:::::::::


I have been cursed with the imagination to envision it all

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Raphael96
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

old hand
Location: New York City

Total posts: 899
Posted:I'd get set of your "R" wicks too, though I'd probably be the one with the brand on his face!

Raphael


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