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Kurobei
member
Location: The Phire Kru
Member Since: 19th Aug 2002
Total posts: 786
Posted:Im planning on making a new staff soon that will be far superior to my current one which is made from Aluminium (I think)
I was planning on sticking with Al and have just learnt that putting a wooden core in your staff stops it from bending...........which is exactly why Im making a new one!!!

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be the best kind of wood to use for a core? It needs to have some flex but be quite strong.

Also, any info on fixing wicks would be appreciated, Im using double wicks.

Kuro

[ 21 August 2002, 20:36: Message edited by: Kurobei ]


whats up with all the limitations?

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:My staff has a wooden core, it's made of standard doweling rod since that was exactly the right size, I have no idea what kind of wood it is though.

One thing you have to be wary of though, is that since the whole staff is heavier, the weight of the wicks on the ends is preportionally less, so it takes more effort to get it spinning - you can't rely on the wicks to pull the ends round since the middle of the staff is also pretty heavy.

I'm not sure how well I've explained that, I'll try and explain it a bit better if it doesn't make any sense .


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Kurobei
member
Location: The Phire Kru
Member Since: 19th Aug 2002
Total posts: 786
Posted:Hey thanx monkey,

At the mo my Ali staff has no core and it has two steel tabs slotted into the ends to bolt the wicks to so its quite light and spins real fast.

I guess im looking for something maybe a tiny bit heavier but with more strength.


whats up with all the limitations?

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pozee
old hand
Location: san diego
Member Since: 27th Jul 2001
Total posts: 886
Posted:mmmmmm, titanium. i just built my titanium staff, and it has all the strength in the world. and it is just the right weight. with five feet of wick in each end. it practically spins itself...

anyone got a light?

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:A dowling innercore will make it less likely for the staff to bend, but believe me, it

quote: putting a wooden core in your staff stops it from bending won't STOP it from bending. Asode from those of us who have easy access to titanium (glares at pozee ), making an all-wooden staff with heat protection around the wicks is the onyl option I know of that works for aluminium...

Doesn't mean others don't know different though.


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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Kurobei
member
Location: The Phire Kru
Member Since: 19th Aug 2002
Total posts: 786
Posted:Yeah, I wouldnt mind getting my grubby little mits on some Titanium or even some Tungsten but i'm just dreaming now, even if I did fing some it would probably cost me both legs (need both arms to spin with!!)

So I guess I'm stuck with boring old Ali for the time being but thanx for the advice

[ 21 August 2002, 23:09: Message edited by: Kurobei ]


whats up with all the limitations?

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:At least you have aluminium, my staff's made from chrome plated mild steel - it's all I could find in the crappy shops in Wycombe.
That's one of the main reasons why I added the wooden core, it was just far too light and bendy without it.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Kurobei
member
Location: The Phire Kru
Member Since: 19th Aug 2002
Total posts: 786
Posted:Don't you have a Homebase or Wickes or some kind of DIY store?
I've been to High Wycombe once before but didn't get chance to look around so I know it's not the biggest of places.

I got my staff pole from Wickes, 6ft wardrobe pole!!!


whats up with all the limitations?

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:We have 4 places that should sell tubing - A Homebase, B&Q, Do It All and one that's not part of a chain.
Unfortunately, they're all based around decorating stuff rather than building stuff, so while they're full of paint and wallpaper, they have almost no metalworking sections anymore.

One example of how pants they are is that they all stock ball chain, which is what I wanted to make some new poi with, but none of them stock the attachments to hook anything onto the ends.
As far as their concerned, it's decorative and you glue it onto stuff as a border.
It's really irritating sometimes, but I don't really have a choice, so I try to make the best I can with what I've got - at least until I move away (into London with a bit of luck, I just need more money and a job )


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Kurobei
member
Location: The Phire Kru
Member Since: 19th Aug 2002
Total posts: 786
Posted:Who doesn't need more money and a better job? I do fer sure

That really is pants (and big ones at that) that ur DIY shops are crap, they need sorting out!!

Still, if you get good with a bad staff, think how good you'll be with a good one and then you can really wow people!!!


whats up with all the limitations?

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.Morph.
.Morph.

addict
Location: Lancashire, UK
Member Since: 23rd Mar 2002
Total posts: 669
Posted:I'm in the thinkin stage of building my first staff, and I'm thinkin of going with an Ali/wooden core stylie. The ali in my local hardware store is really thin, so I'm trying to find some wardrobe poles as they tend to be thicker and stronger....
has anyone else tried them? or can you buy ali pipes in different thickness, and I just haven't found any yet?


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pozee
old hand
Location: san diego
Member Since: 27th Jul 2001
Total posts: 886
Posted:i went to the electrical department of a do it yourself store and i bought a "conduit" it was really cheap. 1.28 us dollars for ten feet, then they cut it right there for me...

anyone got a light?

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SickpuPpy
SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Member Since: 27th Nov 2001
Total posts: 1100
Posted:You can buy aluminum tubing in all sorts of thicknes's, but not at your local hardware store. Most hardware stores don't even sell aluminum tubing. Most of the people who say you can aluminum at Home Depot are wrong and they don't know what aluminum tubing actually looks like.

You can, in fact buy aluminum tubing in any thickness that your little heart desires, but you will most likely have to special order it from a metals wholesaler, or check around your local welding/machine shops and see if they have any extra that you can puchase off of them.


Jesus helps me trick people.

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Jade Lynx
member
Location: Laguna Beach, but i live in De...
Member Since: 19th May 2002
Total posts: 239
Posted:I'm looking to make a couple of wands (sort of like the firetipped clubs that jugglers use, but more slender, not so end-heavy and generally more girly). Someone at our Sunday firedrumming pointed out the -wooden dowel inside metal tubing- approach, which sounds good to me. I'm thinking to make a pair, each about 2 feet long, with a pretty good size wick to them. Does anyone have suggestions or info on what would be a good metal for the tubing. I was initally thinking copper, but it's rather a good conductor, so i wondered if stainless steel or aluminum would be better (weight is less of an issue in this case). Also, any info on attaching wick to wand would really be appreciated.
Thanks!


We got the MikeZ in the house, woot!Glue the ham, hat baby!

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:Bump

So i've just ordered a load of Ali for new staff making.

4 Meters of 19x22
4 Meters of 16x19
4 Meters of 14x16

My plan is to make a few different kinds of staff,

eg.

Long Contact
Short Light Baton
Break Down

I'll be ordering some dowel for tube cores today too

The actual question is about the Ali istelf and the quality of it.

The Spec is: AI Mg Si 0,5. F22. Yeild Strentgh 215. Brinnel Hardness 70.

I dont really know what any of that stuff means. Can anybody explain it to me?

I also ordered 1.85 meters of Acrylic Tube 1x1,1/4. I dont know what im gonna do with this yet but it was there in the catalogue and I couldnt resist.

Combined with the staffs i've ordered from a certain kool cat , I should be able to come up with something usefull. (and hopefully sellable, there is not enough staffers in ireland. Im going to fix that)

smile


Love is the law.

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mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:ado-p all ill say is you are about to make a rod for your own back here mate

be careful, you might hit a few bumps and lumps, but stick with idea,snd let them flow and change!


Step (el-nombrie)

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:Mech,

Rod for me own back?

smile


Love is the law.

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mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:yes, a pain for yourslef

you are about to make hard work out of it


Step (el-nombrie)

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:Ah now I see.

Tis true but what about when im rich!!!!

smile

In all honesty, tis about time i got off my ass and started making my own toys. i've been slowy buying up the tools for months.

Cant wait really... (may be bothering you for helpfull hints as i understand it you do lovely work yourself.... :-) )


Love is the law.

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mech
mech

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: "In your ear"
Member Since: 9th Jun 2003
Total posts: 6207
Posted:the thing is unless you make EXCEPTIONALLY good staffs, you are playing a game against a huge market of stick and staffs

and unless you can keep your costs down, you will be losing moey if you try to competer to hard!

ppl will buy sticks from shops as their first sticks often cos they trust shops more, and they may only buy one

youw ill be playing against large shops, and hard customers, how much has your metal cost you for some staff? grip, wick, tape, fixings, misc. it all adds up fast and before you knwo it your staff will cos 50-60 pounds and not always look as nice as thos in teh shops!

you will be working a long time before you are rich

also which market are you aiming for, do you make contact staffs, or normal staffs, there is a diff, whow ill you seel to, once ppl round you have bought one, how will you deal with shipping costs of a 5ft?


Step (el-nombrie)

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:The rich thing was a bit of a joke. smile

appreciate what your saying though.

There is only one shop in the entire country that sells staffs. The same dodgy wooden ones you can get from firetoys.

In all honesty, i wouldnt be in it for profit. At the moment im the only staffer i know in cork but there is interest from some of the juggle poi people. I figure if i bring along a few spare staffs (practise staffs) i can maybe entice a few folk over to the dark side

Mostly, I want to make new staffs for myself, experiment with different sizes and weights until i find something i really like.

Im getting the Ali for about to euro a meter.

redface Also, I broke my own staff and have nothing to spin with at all. 4 meters is the minimum length i could get and i desperatly need a new staff for a show in Belfast nex week.

I'll let you know how i go.... biggrin


Love is the law.

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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:Written by: ado-p

Im getting the Ali for about to euro a meter.




eek where from? I'd love to get Al that cheap!

About the acrylic, I've found it shatters quite easily, you really need polycarbonate, which I can't get for less than about 15 - 20 for a 2m length (20x16). Can tell you where if you're interested

Really, 1 euro/m for ally is fantastically cheap biggrin let us know your secret supplier!


monkeys ate my brain

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:smile

I'm getting the ali through the fabricators here in work. it all comes from Miko Metals. They even deliver. It actually ended up closer to 2 euro all told. Still a steal at that price though.

So I am now the proud onwer of all the Ali as listed above.

8 foot of 100mm wick

8 foot of 3/4 inch dowel.

Enough tools to get the job done (damn i wish i had a pillar drill and lathe and a milling machine at home... oh the possibilities)

If I dont post tomorow its because i chopped all my fingers off.

Any last minute advice for me pretty please?

Mech, How Much different are your contact staffs from your spinny ones?

Wish me lick people, I'll let you know how it goes.


Love is the law.

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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:Good luck!

Random advice: masking tape is reallly good for holding wicks in place and tight before you screw them.

Also, spinning is easier with more fingers rather than less, so don't chop them all off.


monkeys ate my brain

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Good Luck!

And goddamn, You have to help me order some metal from them some time!


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:Whoooo Hooooo!!!!!!!!!!

one staff done

5ft with 2tf of 4in wick each end.

Its tasty sweet and shiny with about 2 1/2 foot of the thinnest grippy rubber grip.

biggrin

I just plugged the ends with softwood dowel,

Its a bit light, but then i am used to the innercore, which is weighted coompletly differently.

I wonder about making one with dowel all the way through

:excitedwigglingsmiley:

sadly, either i or the metal people got the dims wrong.

none of the thinner ali slides into each other like they should. Anyone got a vernier calipers?

but anyway

Yay!!!


Love is the law.

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mo-seph
mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK
Member Since: 24th Feb 2004
Total posts: 524
Posted:Ah, I hadn't read your original post; you'll never get 16x19 to fit into 19x22. At least you can't guarantee it. You'd need to specifically get pipes with a "clearance fit" for each other - that is that the dimensions of the two tubes don't interfere even at the highest/lowest values given by the tolerances. (Can explain more if you're interested).

Also, even if you leave 1mm clearance (using 16x18 for example), it won't take much of a knock before they won't slide nicely.

Hope that helps, and good luck!

And yay for the staff you've done biggrin


monkeys ate my brain

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honneycut
Member
Location: Bayern, Germany
Member Since: 30th Jul 2004
Total posts: 1
Posted:Instaed of using a wooden core (which I think is quite expensive) i took quartz sand and then sealed the ends with silicone.

Was quite tricky then to get the kevlar fixed without losing the sand and building a rain-maker :-)

But now its quite heavy especially for contact staffing.

I tested it on a large meadow for making sure that the silicone wouldnt melt, but it only loses a litte of amount, so you relly need to put about 10 cm into each end.

Ive did it one year ago and up to now I never lost a little peace of sand!


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native
native

sleeping with angels
Location: anaheim CA usa
Member Since: 16th Jun 2004
Total posts: 508
Posted:its not to expensive

SLEEP WITH ANGELS muckieha

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:Hi Guys

Thanks for the response,

Moseph, yes very interested, I never thought of that. I now have loads of Ali that dont fit!!!. Not to worry though. I have plans for some short baton doubles and a few other folk are interested.

Honey

Dowel cost me 5 for 16 feet.... smile

SO here's the update.

I spun the livin daylights out of the new stick over the weekend at our Sphercule/HOP ball in belfast. I honestly feel like my spinning has improved by an order of magnitude.

Contact, Palming, Throwing are all a million times smoother.

Will be posting new tricks soon in staff pages.


Love is the law.

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:And it looked totally amazing too...

ubblol sorry, just thought I'd mention it ubblol


Getting to the other side smile

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