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Forums > Technical Discussion > SHHHH!!! The secret is out on RAV'N!!!

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glowshow


member
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Total posts: 406
Posted:Hey guys! I have done a little bit of snooping around on the web and have come across a lethal combination of very cheap things that can greatly enhance the bags of tricks that most of us carry around.

First off...Get you some of them purty RAV'N lights. Just put "Photon" in the search box. I know that they have been dissed a little in the past, but Botach is actually a very reputable company. I order through them all the time, and have never had a problem with their service. All of the people I have emailed and spoken with over the phone have been extremely nice and professional. Right now (and for the next 2 weeks) the have the Photon Rav'n lights on sale for a
FREAKIN' AMAZING LOW PRICE OF ONLY $9.95!!!
Their normal pricing is only $13, (whick is still about $15-20 less than you'll find them anywhere else) and they have all of the other Photons for dirt-ass cheap as well!

Don't go ripping apart your pretty new Electroglo poi! Make some new ones by adding some 9/16" clear translucent silicone tubing for $1.55/foot! Order a couple of feet, cut off about 6 inches or so, and jam the photon into the end of the tubing. Voila! Instant protection to keep the battery door from falling off, while at the same time crisply diffusing the light over the span of several inches. And it's nice and soft if you tend to whack yourself or others!

And to solve that pesky problem of having to replace the batteries... get them here for $.405 a piece! Just put "CR2016" in the search box.



I will try to post a couple of pictures soon of my "Lucky Charms Rainbow" string of Rav'n lights soon. I have 6 on each string! Looks wicked cool!!! Hope this helped some of you party kids out there!

Hopefully this will calm the swell of people wanting rainbow electroglo's until Malcolm can get the manufacturer to make them. Note: Electroglo Poi are still a MUCH nicer and better constructed product. They are cheaper in the long run. But, hey! Variety is the spice of life.


FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)What do you want to be when you grow up?I want to be a kid again!I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.~~~J~~~

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FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:PLUR, thanks for good tips!

totally mesmerized with jdub's photon3's last night on the beach at OrangeFire2, 4 diff colors, 2 at the end of each shoestring

when i get done with putting some fire toys together, gotta brighten up the electrix too


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Yeah - buy your photon lights from a company that also sells guns and bullets. Very PLUR

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glowshow


member
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Total posts: 406
Posted:Nya, nya, nya...guns and bullets...nya, nya, nya. Did you take the time to see that they market their products to law enforcement officials, military, and public safety officials? Quick searches showed that they do not carry any type of firearm (because it's illegal to sell guns without a background check over here), and the only way you are going to get ammunition is with a signed federal authorization. Now, other than that, why am I supposed to have any problem buying a product from a company that buys in enough bulk so they don't have to rip other people off?

It's called Capitalism. Deal with it. Do you eat at McDonalds or shop at a chain store? Do you buy gasoline (petrol) for your car? You support a lot more than you think.

Jeez...sometimes people can be so left that they become right.


FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)What do you want to be when you grow up?I want to be a kid again!I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.~~~J~~~

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:glowshow, ima very grateful for that hella useful post - b4 i take the dive, can ya please tell me what you've heard from their reputation for overseas orders (esp. Aussieland?)
thanks bro!


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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glowshow


member
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Total posts: 406
Posted:According to them, they ship orders to all non-embargo countries. That link should give you a few more of the details.

If you have any other questions, you can email them at BotachTactical@BotachTactical.net They are really good about getting back to you and answering any questions.

Now, as far as reputation for shipping overseas, I don't really have a good way to judge that. I know that all of my experiences with the company have been pleasant. I have never had a problem with ordering, customer service, or shipment. Generally speaking, almost everything that they offer is stocked in an incredible amount of bulk, so they don't need to back order little things like photon lights. They ship out same day if it is in by a certain deadline. You can check your order status directly off of their website, and they will give you a tracking number for the freight carrier they ship through. I would imagine it might take a little longer to get to Oz from here, but it shouldn't be that bad. I mean, they sell to our government and police forces. I would think that they have a pretty solid reputation to be relied on by those entities. If you decide to go this route, let us know, and then we can have a reference for anyone else who wants to order from overseas.


FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)What do you want to be when you grow up?I want to be a kid again!I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.~~~J~~~

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:roger that! thanks glowshow! it sounds very enticing!
/sprints after Rav'N bandwagon..


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Personally I try to avoid supporting companies with unethical or exploitive policies and practices. Selling guns (they do sell guns, big ones!) and ammunition is not, in my view, an ethical business.

They may require an import license, but they don't ask for end use certification (I forget the official name) so there's no guarantee where guns being sold end up. This is why they sell Israeli guns. US produced or licensed guns are subject to US arms controls, the Israeli guns aren't.

They don't just market to a select audience, they market to everyone

So I was just pointing out the irony of buying your fluffy clubbing gear from a place that sells ammunition, and going round spreading PLUR when you've financed, in my view, an unethical company. Semi automatic machine guns are most definitely not PLUR, I think I be pretty confident in that.

As you asked: no, I don't eat at McDonalds; I don't by from most chain stores, especially any thing gap, nike, adiddas, etc.., I try to shop at local, independent stores; I drive a car about once a month, if that, and when I fill it up I avoid the big stations: Esso, BP and Shell.

Yes, it's capitalism, but does capitalism have to be exploitive? Can't capitalism also be ethical? It can, but only if you can be arsed to make it so and spread that PLUR around more that just to your fellow clubbers.


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shizN0T


member
Location: Stroudsburg, PA, USA

Total posts: 184
Posted:this almost seems like a comercial.
glowshow, I know you arent spamming.


I smell something burning.

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Jkare


member
Location: Boulder

Total posts: 19
Posted:I see lots of gun accessories, but no actual fire-arms for sale. I own no fire arms, but I still value my constitutional right to decide whether I want to or not. Historically, Poi were used as weapons training, and to hands off on a company because they are continuing the tradition, I see as, somewhat hypocritical.

Dom, if there are guns for sale on this site, where are they? The practice of arms sale is going to occur, and this trend is not going to end anytime soon. Buying or not buying raver lights from an accesory company is not going to affect this.

just a little barrage of thoughts



Jkare
It's Time

Salama mpira wa moto

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Jkare - Guns, in particularly semi-automatics, are often designed to kill things, or people and not have much else use.

On the farm where I grew up, we had a legitimate reason to have to do that sometimes, with pests or sick animals that needed putting down.

I know live in the middle of a city, and believe that any official who tells me I have no need for a firearm is both sensible and reasonable. If I belonged to a gun club, and kept the gun stored there, then I may have a legitimate reason to own one, but not to keep it in my home in the city limits.

You wish to defend your rights to choose (or not choose) to own a machine designed to nothing else but kill or shoot targets. I say you shoudl defend your right to put your case to the authorities to show that you have a legitimate reason to own a machine that kills other than to shoot at people. Otherwise, why would you want one?

On the flip side, your right is yours to defend, but, do you also wish to defend the rights of a crazy terrorist to also purchase weapons? I think people get "rights" a little bit confused with "reason".

You can extend this arguement to wanting the right to buy anthrax or uranium or plutonium. The same logic structure applies, but the consequences are much more dire if the wrong person acquires these materials.

I'm not hoping to get into an arguement, but if you look at it from the "reasons for legal use" of gun owners, then I feel restrictions are a necessary evil in this type of area.

My two cents at least...


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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:/tip toes in...
uh is that sale still on??!
/tip toes out an accidentally knocks over a vase
sorry!


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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glowshow


member
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Total posts: 406
Posted:No, not an advertisement. I'm just a fan.

Yes, the sale ends this week, I think. Get 'em while you can. I'll try to get some pics up soon that show my newest creations...five on each, "string-of-pearls" style. They look sick!

As for the rest of this conversation, I'm going to have to agree with Jkare. Without starting some big "U.S.A. vs. The Rest of The World" argument, I'll have to say that "ethics" change from one place to another, based on societal history, among other things. In the US, it was decided that we, as a people, have the right to choose whether or not we want to keep and bear arms, because the law imposed before our separation from Great Brittan strictly forbid us from doing that, for fear that we would turn against them. Whether or not it's necessary now is another argument altogether.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with someone lawfully possessing a weapon. There are plenty of people who collect them as a hobby. Others hunt with them. Others keep them for personal protection or for protection of their families. My Dad has a handgun to defend himself from bears when he takes excursions into the wilderness out West. Fact is, there are all sorts of reasons to own a firearm. And, unfortunately, some have them to commit crime. But that is unlawful. Our government has some extremely strict laws regarding firearms. All automatic weapons and most semi-automatic weapons are completely illegal to purchase and own by the public. There are even a great deal of handguns that have been made illegal to possess. You have to wait a week and pass a thorough back ground check to purchase anything else. It's not like owning a gun is a blatant statement condoning violence. The vast majority of gun owners are extremely responsible people who take their hobby seriously.

I know that there are still illegal guns, and people who do illegal things with them. You aren't going to stop that any time soon. Hopefully in the future, we won't have this problem. But until then, I'm not going to squabble over buying trinkets from a company that legally and rightfully sells, among many other things, a couple of guns. They are quite obviously sanctioned by the US Government. Do you not think they have to answer directly to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms for every transaction they make??? If they were trying to sell them even remotely bordering on the illegal side, do you think they would still be in business and advertising over the net? I think the FBI would kick their door in, as well as the person's door who tried to buy the items. And the fact that they aren't made in the US doesn't have any bearing at all. They are still channeled through a US-based company. Even if they only acted as a third-party router to connect people outside the US with guns shipped from outside the US, they would wish they were dead for smuggling arms. It's not as easy as you think. Every gun that enters this country is subject to US arms controls.

Dom, you might have a problem with the "unethical" business of a company that sells guns and ammo, but what exactly do you think you are supporting when you buy drugs?

Food for thought.


FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)What do you want to be when you grow up?I want to be a kid again!I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.~~~J~~~

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Wise words Charles.

You have the right to buy from there or not, but I just put forward my reasons why I think peaceful people shouldn't buy from this company. You have the right to ignore me, and then I'll have the right to think you a hypocrite for spouting PLUR.

"We must become the change we wish to see in the world. What you do is of little significance. But it is very important that you do it."

You honestly didn't see the guns on the Botachtactical site? They seem to have removed them now, but they were advertising Israeli machine guns on there. The drop down menu still lists them, but they're only listing accessories now.

As for me supporting gun toting criminals and despot third world regimes by buying drugs? I think that's a bit too much media hysteria. Cocaine and heroin come from dodgy places, through dodgy means, like Columbia and Afghanistan. I ain't buying that. Acid, pills and such I do buy is 99% likely to be produced in Europe. A little of the money probably goes to organised crime, and I'm not happy with that. But if we want to buy drugs then we have no choice at the moment.

You don't have to sell guns and bullets illegally for them to end up in the hands of a criminal or a government using them to inflict human rights abuses. US law states that weapons manufactured in the US are subject to end user monitoring. Not sold through the US, but manufactured. Actually the US is tighter on this than most other countries, not it's still a loophole. The legality of it is one issue, and the moral and ethical viewpoint is another, and unfortunately separated, aspect.


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FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:the more i've seen rav'ns and photon 3's in action up close in really recent days, the more i'm salivating for more than my red photon pair... don't even know which model number i have, prolly 2's?

the new clean bright greens and blues especially are just soooooo delicious kool, dude!


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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glowshow


member
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Total posts: 406
Posted:And organized crime has seized the opportunity to take control of most of the higher end of the pill market, as well as marijuana.

And if we want to buy ridiculously under-priced photon lights, then we have no other choices at the moment...

It comes down to what morals you are willing to sacrifice or look the other way for to make yourself feel better about what you do. Drugs are far more illegal than guns. If it weren't for drugs, then there wouldn't be nearly as much of a need for guns. Don't pit the blame on one single company for the troubles of the world. Most of the illegal arms come from destitute countries that sell off their military surplus to keep their people fed, i.e Russia. If a company does reputable business within it's limits of the law that has been set forth by the country in which it is based, then what other argument is there? If you don't support it, then don't patronize their business. But don't judge the rest of us for taking advantage of a good deal. Do you think that by buying $200 worth of lights, you are going to pay their rent? Are you going to critisize everyone who uses ebay to buy a collectible "Beanie Baby" because they sell scopes and accessories for guns on their site? Are you going to critisize everone who uses Yahoo to buy a book, because the Yahoo store is the online sponsor and coordinator for Botach Tactical? In my opinion, you are not condoning the use of guns unless you are participating directly in the sale and trade of them. And then, so long as you are doing it within the limits of the law, you still aren't doing anything wrong.


FREE TIBET!!! (with the purchase of a 44 oz. drink)What do you want to be when you grow up?I want to be a kid again!I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.~~~J~~~

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Jkare


member
Location: Boulder

Total posts: 19
Posted:javascript:void(0)
Eek! Wow! good response guys, thank you!

I agree that it is bad to have criminal activity that uses firearms. I also am buddhist, and have the belief that I have to kill something every day for me to stay alive, whether it be plant, animal, or fungus.

If the guns were on the site, but aren't now; I believe you. I still don't think that a few photons are going to make a dent in their overhead.

I do still feel that I need my right to bear arms. And even though you live in a city where you don't approve of their use, there is still a LOT in this country that is outside of the city and do need the firearms for protection against the enviroment.
I feel we need gun right, esp. with the way our president has been more than happy to unballance the checks and ballances system lately (i.e. homland defense, methamph bill, economic summit occuring right now). The founding fathers understood that, even though they did the best they can (and I think a damn good job) future leaders could fuck up the system that they built for us. Thus, they insured that we could turn on the system if it became too corrupt. Remember that declaration of independence thing? I think it calls for it. (I can't believe I'm posting this on a site in NZ Ironic much?)


Jkare
It's Time

Salama mpira wa moto

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fieryfiend


member
Location: California

Total posts: 48
Posted:Acid, pills and such I do buy is 99% likely to be produced in Europe. A little of the money probably goes to organised crime, and I'm not happy with that. (quoted from Dom)
I was curious where you got these figures from. Are these actual facts or were you just spouting?


Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:fieryfiend - Various sources, articles I've read, etc... nothing I can quote from right now.

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