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Forums > Technical Discussion > Fire breathing with dry fuels

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Anselm


member
Location: Central or Northern CA, depend...

Total posts: 28
Posted:Dear People,

I'm thinking about getting into fire breathing using dry fuels (i.e. powders). I've done a lot of reading about this sort of thing, and so far have found powders to be the substance of choice because: They're non-toxic, non-carcinogenic, don't cause blowback and aren't nearly as flamable. However, one more concern I had was crackin teeth from the heat. Will powdered fuels cause this sort of heat? I haven't been able to find this sort of into anywhere.

Thank you all very much, and the best of luck to you all!

Anselm


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dibs_star


member
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, Uk

Total posts: 603
Posted:I'm unsure. Doesn't sound too nice to me. Don't know anyone that uses dry fuel. I just stick to parraffin. Erm.... I'm really not sure. I'd say if you can't find an answer, not to bother, that may be your safest bet.

Isn't there stuff on this site about safety on the opening page??? have you checked there???

Sorry I can't be much help,
Dibs xxx


Can miles truly separate us from friends? If we want to be with someone we love aren't we already there? If there is someone willing to show, and there is someone willing to see; magic happens. This is whem humans are alive. This is when the wingless fly.

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Maelstrom


Maelstrom

member
Location: Akron, Ohio

Total posts: 135
Posted:IMHO: I think you should research your idea further. When you are fire breathing the fire never realy gets close enough to your teeth to worry about them cracking. I would like to point out that you are talking about dry fuels......I don't know about you, but my mouth is wet. This would make it hard to blow a fine dust to get your effect. Ever chew up a bunch of crackers and tried to whistle? Also who ever told you it would not blow back was besides themselves. You are running a higher risk of blow back then with a liquid fuel, And really any of the dry fuels I'm personally aware of, you don't want burning near your skin. take for instance coffee creamer. The bright red you are seeing in the flame is suger burning. As the suger melts (key word is melt) you may find yourself haveing to deal with a Napalm type substance. Napalm + Skin= . I feel your idea has merit, but instead of blowing dry fuel out of your mouth (which is going to be more trouble then it is worth) you may want to consider another means of distrubution. Please becareful with this idea, if you get it to work it could realy hurt you bad.

Nothing good ever comes from hanging out with normal people.

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dibs_star


member
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland, Uk

Total posts: 603
Posted:I do believe the man is correct. Take it easy old boy, you need your mouth for........ ....stuff.

Can miles truly separate us from friends? If we want to be with someone we love aren't we already there? If there is someone willing to show, and there is someone willing to see; magic happens. This is whem humans are alive. This is when the wingless fly.

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theblackunicorn


member
Location: fort worth, TX, USA

Total posts: 119
Posted:dry fuels for blowing fire? seems a bit unpractical to me. i would think the fuel would stick inside your mouth..but i dont know, i never attempted dry fuel. you might try using the dry stuff in a different way...such as throwing it into a flame for a large flash or such. there is a very good chemical that goes by the name of dragon's breath...i am sure you can find it on the net somewhere. i wouldnt try to use the breath for blowing tho...i dont know if it is useable for that. i am sure that using powders to blow is possible and does the job very well...but it seems to me that they would be a bit more hassle then they are worth. just my rantings tho...lotsa luck...let me know how it goes.

its to dying in anothers arms and why i had to try it......

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maladmin


member
Location: Toronto

Total posts: 46
Posted:Dont forget if you get a fine enough distribution of the powder most materials become explosive. This includes things like flour etc so unless you want an explosion going off in your face i'd watch out. Also isnt the problem with using powder that it will mix with saliva and just turn into a sticky mass? Nyway keep us updated on any progress.

We are made to persist. That's how we find out who we are. - Tobias Wolff

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Anselm


member
Location: Central or Northern CA, depend...

Total posts: 28
Posted:H'm, interesting, thanks people. This has been very helpful. Maybe I'll stick with throwing for now, and research the blowing some more. Thanks, all!

Anselm


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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Well, dry powder doesn't actually blow out well from "aspiration" so this is what happens....You puff the dry stuff and it forms a cloud...in front of your face. The weight of the podwer does not fly as far away from you as liquid mist does, and so therefore, you actually have this explosive ball of flame in front of your face. If you would like to test this, then place your dry fuel of choice into a plastic bottle with a faily narrow holed top. Light a candle and squeeze the powder through the flame. You will notice the powder remains close to the flame and this is not necessarily something you want when fire breathing, especially beginning.

Now...if you intend to hold any form of conversation after fire breathing with dry fuels, well, you may not want to. Because your mouth is wet inside, the powder will coat the inside of your mouth and gather in your cheeks, under your tongue, etc. Again, try it. Mist the inside of a plastic bag and then introduce your powder of choice into it. Pretty neat huh? And with dry fuel, you can't really drink and wash it down, or at least it doesn't rinse it out as well as you would think it might.

This, of course, is also backing up the statement that many powders are explosive in the right circumstances.
I would also like to add that while fire breathing is not necessarily the "cleanest" of acts, what with all the spitting involved, but I think that walking around with your clothing coated in a powdery residue and your mouth caked with it just makes it all look silly, and not nearly so impressive in the scope that really all you get from powder is a short ball and not a substantial plume.
But that is all I know about it. Beyond that I don't know much!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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theblackunicorn


member
Location: fort worth, TX, USA

Total posts: 119
Posted:well said pele...as always. how's the house doing since the fire..i lost my comp right after it happened so i never got to see anything other than your house went up. srry for askin ya to re-hash the whole thing...if you would rather not thats fine....

its to dying in anothers arms and why i had to try it......

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Blackunicorn....we're moving at the end of this month, how's that for an answer!? The fix-it job on the house was sucky, at best and is still not fully done, several months later. My landlady is psychotic anyway, so it is better to leave now. We found a house that needs some fixing up but in the end will be better than where we are now.
As for my stuff...I still haven't triaged some of it. Everytime I go to go through it I start crying. Some stuff I still can't part with, despite the torched appearance, I am such a sentimental sap! Thank you for asking.

Anyway, if you want to talk podwers that ignite just to throw them through the flame or get a stage effect, not talking breathing, flash powder that magicians use is widely available and has a really great "explosive" appearance!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Anselm


member
Location: Central or Northern CA, depend...

Total posts: 28
Posted:Wow, was I ever off! Dear people, thank you so much for all the info! Maybe you can replace the knowledge I thought I had with something more stable: I'm looking for a firebreathing fluid that doesn't cause blowback and isn't toxic. Would vegetible oil work for this? I heard it does, and since it doesn't leave vapors, and is obviously not toxic, it would seem safe (from these dangers, anyway). any input?

Thanks,
Anselm
P.S.
I'm not nearly as moronic or inexperienced when it comes to spinning. Just breathing. Really.


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theblackunicorn


member
Location: fort worth, TX, USA

Total posts: 119
Posted:well pele, glad to hear it. about the new place anyway. i am sorry about your stuff, but in the end you are still here and so is your son and thats all that really matters right? the rest is just details. im also very proud of you for staying with spinning and performing with fire. i know people who would have dropped their poi right there out of malice toward the flames for destroying their home. and i am very happy to know that you are stronger than that. it is a very high mark of honor to be that wise and understanding. there are few people with that kind of heart, and i am touched to hear that even despite the fire at your house, the flames still burn in your heart.

and as far as the fuels go...vegetable oil will work but i have never used it so i cant compare it to paraffin. with paraffin, you can get a huge flame and at the same time have amazing control over direction and such. it is the most widely used to the best of my knowledge and works well for me. keep in mind though, ANY fuel has the potential to blow back of flash when you are breathing fire. the best way to prevent blow-back/ flashing is to always be aware of things such as wind speed and direction, and to always know your own limits. if you pay attention and be careful, you should be alright. i have been breathing fire for almost 3 months and am relieved to say that i have only had the fire blow back once( the wind changed directions in mid blow...not a whole lot you can do about that) and have never had it flash or gotten a chemical burn for the paraffin. course, im really not that good at it . maybe that has something to do with it?


its to dying in anothers arms and why i had to try it......

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Maelstrom


Maelstrom

member
Location: Akron, Ohio

Total posts: 135
Posted:Without being mean I would like to remind you of the search option at the top of the screen. This very subject has been covered alot. If you are of age you can even read the article Pele wrote about breathing fire. But I must warn you continuing this thread will result in Rockstarashi posting a bunch of nonsence, insulting a couple people, and then telling everyone he dosn't mean it, that we misunderstood his intentions. That he's sorry and will blame it on excessive drug use and a lack computer knowledge. I think that sums it up.....so.....dose anyone have any ideas for distrabuting dry fuels into displays of fire!

Nothing good ever comes from hanging out with normal people.

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Anselm


member
Location: Central or Northern CA, depend...

Total posts: 28
Posted:Ok, thanks Maelstrome. One more thing, then I'm done: When I say blowback, I'm reffering to the posibility of vapors in ones lungs catching fire and exploding (no longer). Does this happen? At this point, I take all dangers, no matter how ludicrus, litterally. Better safe then sorry.

Anselm


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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Hmm...If you have vapors in your lungs (or powder for that matter), then yes i guess it exploding is a bit of a problem.

But, if you have vapors in your lungs that are concentrated enough to explode, then you are going to hospital (or that cold stoney place next door) pretty soon anyway.

I think what might be missing here, Anselm, is that fire, heat and explosions are the lesser dangers when firebreathing.

The long-term and short-term hazards of possible ingesting too much fuel, not matter what it is, is by far the biggest risk.

This doesn't mean you can't die from a one-off blowback, but far more people have died from the chemicals.

My general advice (which I did once I became engaged) is if you worried about the dangers of firebreathing (as we all should be), then don't do it.

It's not worth your future health or immediate life...


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Anselm


member
Location: Central or Northern CA, depend...

Total posts: 28
Posted:I hear where you're coming from charles. However, not all of what you said applies to me. I spin, I love it, and I'm scared shitless. That's why i still have my hair (down to the middle of my back). I'm expecting to be scared, and I'm expecting to work through it. That's not the issue. Furthermore, I looked at the danger in chemicals, and decided that all the toxic ones weren't for me. It was too much of a sacrifice. Thus, I was looking into non-toxic/carcinogenics, primarily veggie oil and powders. Thanks for the info:)

Anselm


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Anselm


member
Location: Central or Northern CA, depend...

Total posts: 28
Posted:P.S.
Re-reading, I relized how in-your-face that was. Not intended that way (I tend to be very direct, which doesn't always work in text-base).
Basicly, I'm love firedancing. It's my biggest passion in life. However, I want to be as safe about it as possible. Thus, I'm looking for the safest possible fuels. Because there are no breathers in my area that I know about, I'm studying as much as possible about these things now, so that I can be as safe as possible when I meet someone to teach me.

Mucho gracias,

Anselm


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Maelstrom


Maelstrom

member
Location: Akron, Ohio

Total posts: 135
Posted:I think we are all trying to make the same piont. It dosen't really matter what fuel you use, it's all dangerous. Even veggie oil. My understnading is that in order to use veggie oil there are alot more processes in getting it to work well. It also requires more skill in the actual atomizing of the fuel. This link will help you.
here
By reading your post you still have alot of research to do. Please take care of yourself. Like my superviser at work says "Be careful guys, this sh#$ will kill you!"


Nothing good ever comes from hanging out with normal people.

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jsjs
GOLD Member since Aug 2009

stranger
Location: Queensland, Australia

Total posts: 1
Posted:Fire Breathing has risks with dry fuels as well, I personally do not use any liquid fuel for fire breathing, yes...I only use dry fuels because I find the there is no blowback, the only downfall is that the dusk stays in front of the face. I have not done it long enough to find any health risks, the only bad thing that happens is the taste is in my mouth and the powder coats around the tongue and cheeks but that can be spat out.

The only solid advice I have is to experience fire breathing, I think dry fuels is better in terms of not fire breather's lungs...never put pollen in your mouth like lycopodium (only use it for props and such) and if you wanna put dry fuel in your mouth use custard powder or powdered milk (I haven't tried it but someone said it worked).

EDITED_BY: 1jsjs (1255995767)


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:*cough* dry fuels are way to go wink

but why no lycopodium?


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:The problem with dry fuels is that they aren't flammable, they are explosive. Flames can be controlled, to a lesser degree. Explosions can not. I've seen it and it's really fargin scary and just as dangerous as liquid, if not more.
Remember just because you haven't experienced it doesn't mean it hasn't happened or that it's safe.

Tom, please tell me you're being fascetious when asking why not using lycopodium for this? Please? wink


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:the response to your question has been moved here

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Posted:If you don't want fuel or powder in your mouth you can try putting your powder of choice into a small tube then covering one end in a piece of tissue paper held on with small rubber band. blow through the other end of the tube to shoot powder onto your flame and you get a similar effect with nothing having entered your body.

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Andyeverhart


Member


Total posts: 1
Posted:I am in the same boat as you tho I use a dry fuel. I use Lycopodium powder it's hydrophobic thus it won't stick to the inside of your mouth and and what I do is I don try to blow it out I blow my air over top of it thus giving a plume effect and not covering you with dust now before you try this for your self research it and find some one to help you I find it safer than a liquid fuel because it does not have fumes


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