Forums > Technical Discussion > Weighting your chains...
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22 posts
Location: USA
22 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Greetings,
I created my first set of practice poi with some Nylon Strapping, Nylon twine, and two tennis balls with bolts through them. It occured to me that I should just make the twine into chains, so I would be used to spinning chains when I lit up the first time. The only chain I found handy at the time was a couple of 24' Choke collars. The chain ended up weighing in at 5 oz, and the tennis balls weighed 3 oz. Is this a normal ratio? I get some wierd chain action sometimes, and I would rather solve the hardware problem than learn to compensate in a manner that would limit me later. On the other hand, it might be my technique, and that would be nice to know as well. Any input would be appreciated.
J
Greetings,
I created my first set of practice poi with some Nylon Strapping, Nylon twine, and two tennis balls with bolts through them. It occured to me that I should just make the twine into chains, so I would be used to spinning chains when I lit up the first time. The only chain I found handy at the time was a couple of 24' Choke collars. The chain ended up weighing in at 5 oz, and the tennis balls weighed 3 oz. Is this a normal ratio? I get some wierd chain action sometimes, and I would rather solve the hardware problem than learn to compensate in a manner that would limit me later. On the other hand, it might be my technique, and that would be nice to know as well. Any input would be appreciated.
J
A witty saying proves nothing.- Voltaire (1694-1778)
SILVER Member
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Liquid Cow
2,629 posts
Location: High Wycombe, England
Posted:
I don't think it's just me, but I prefer having whatever's on the end of the chain to be heavier than the chain itself, so you don't get the weird chain action that you say you've been getting.
I've not had to weight tennis balls myself, but a variety of people here have mentioned taping up a stack of coins and wedging them inside the balls.
I'm assuming you could use anything for this and there isn't some special reason to use coins, although I imagine it would make it easier to balance the poi since you'd not have to measure anything except the number of coins you're using in each ball
I don't think it's just me, but I prefer having whatever's on the end of the chain to be heavier than the chain itself, so you don't get the weird chain action that you say you've been getting.
I've not had to weight tennis balls myself, but a variety of people here have mentioned taping up a stack of coins and wedging them inside the balls.
I'm assuming you could use anything for this and there isn't some special reason to use coins, although I imagine it would make it easier to balance the poi since you'd not have to measure anything except the number of coins you're using in each ball
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,009 posts
Location: Bristol, UK
Posted:
The dynamic of the spin and how it feels depends upon the weight distribution. Use lighter chain. Dog chains are very heavy, so go buy something lighter and cheaper. As long as it's got a pretty comfy breaking strain it'll be fine (I think I usually aim for 30/40 pounds).
The dynamic of the spin and how it feels depends upon the weight distribution. Use lighter chain. Dog chains are very heavy, so go buy something lighter and cheaper. As long as it's got a pretty comfy breaking strain it'll be fine (I think I usually aim for 30/40 pounds).
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Every poi feels different. If you're really concerned with getting an accurate feel, I'd get a pair of fire poi and just practice unlit.
As for chain/poi ratio, it shouldn't affect you too much. I've spun with lit chains and no wick at all (fire chains)... it feels pretty much the same. I certainly don't think you'll get any bad habits by spinning like you are.
Heck, the biggest differences have got to be between glowstick/string and chain/wick... anything else is just a variation of those two...
Every poi feels different. If you're really concerned with getting an accurate feel, I'd get a pair of fire poi and just practice unlit.
As for chain/poi ratio, it shouldn't affect you too much. I've spun with lit chains and no wick at all (fire chains)... it feels pretty much the same. I certainly don't think you'll get any bad habits by spinning like you are.
Heck, the biggest differences have got to be between glowstick/string and chain/wick... anything else is just a variation of those two...
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
member
22 posts
Location: USA
22 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
That was my concern. I was using string, but I figured I could just make chain Poi, then attach tennis balls for practice and wicks when I am ready to burn. I know one other poi enthusiast (ok, I've met her twice), so I can probably find where to get the good gear from her.
wow, quick thought... Does the wierd twist in the links on Dog chains cause some spin problems? I am having trouble getting my left hand to spin parralel to the front plane of my body (butterfly style). Could that be hardware, or is it me?
[ 13 June 2002, 10:35: Message edited by: Boneyard ]
That was my concern. I was using string, but I figured I could just make chain Poi, then attach tennis balls for practice and wicks when I am ready to burn. I know one other poi enthusiast (ok, I've met her twice), so I can probably find where to get the good gear from her.
wow, quick thought... Does the wierd twist in the links on Dog chains cause some spin problems? I am having trouble getting my left hand to spin parralel to the front plane of my body (butterfly style). Could that be hardware, or is it me?
[ 13 June 2002, 10:35: Message edited by: Boneyard ]
A witty saying proves nothing.- Voltaire (1694-1778)
back from the dead...sort of
884 posts
Location: 43°41'N 79°38'W
884 posts
Location: 43°41'N 79°38'W
Posted:
I agree with NYC...if you can do your moves, adjusting to new poi just takes a few minutes of practice.
As for the butterfly, both poi can't be *perfectly* parallel at the same time. It shouldn't be a harware problem...if you rotate your wrists properly as opposed to holding them static, I don't think the chains should kink. Given that you're having the problem with one hand and not the other, and given there's a 90% chance your left hand is your weak one, you may just need to practice some more. But try adding some swivels (available at hardware stores) if you're sure you're doing it right.
I agree with NYC...if you can do your moves, adjusting to new poi just takes a few minutes of practice.
As for the butterfly, both poi can't be *perfectly* parallel at the same time. It shouldn't be a harware problem...if you rotate your wrists properly as opposed to holding them static, I don't think the chains should kink. Given that you're having the problem with one hand and not the other, and given there's a 90% chance your left hand is your weak one, you may just need to practice some more. But try adding some swivels (available at hardware stores) if you're sure you're doing it right.
Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
personally, i liked practicing with chains cause it got me used to more weight faster. i wouldn't weight balls while u are learning purely for the hurt effect.... but ur choice- it will make fire poi easier!
and i find everyone else's poi a breeze cause i practice with chains and so mine are a lot heavier.
just my $.02
personally, i liked practicing with chains cause it got me used to more weight faster. i wouldn't weight balls while u are learning purely for the hurt effect.... but ur choice- it will make fire poi easier!
and i find everyone else's poi a breeze cause i practice with chains and so mine are a lot heavier.
just my $.02
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
Pooh-Bah
2,419 posts
Location: la-la land
2,419 posts
Location: la-la land
Posted:
I made my tennis ball poi with two strands of 75lb breaking strenght pike fishing trace.. crimped it all together and away I went.. but I've lost one now.. so I'll have to go and try to find some tennis balls if not buy some.. oh expences, expenses - that'll yeach me to get drunk and forget..
I made my tennis ball poi with two strands of 75lb breaking strenght pike fishing trace.. crimped it all together and away I went.. but I've lost one now.. so I'll have to go and try to find some tennis balls if not buy some.. oh expences, expenses - that'll yeach me to get drunk and forget..
I honour you as an aspect of myself..
You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..
member
22 posts
Location: USA
22 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
What about using cable? It's only $.11 a foot at the local hardware store, and is very light. Will the little hoo-yahs that you have to attach to the end hold the weight when one is spinning their poi at full speed? More to the point, will it hold up over time?
My roommate showed me the chain one his his friends uses. The hardware store uses it to hold the pens to the drawers in the hardware section, but doesn't stock it. Go figure
J
What about using cable? It's only $.11 a foot at the local hardware store, and is very light. Will the little hoo-yahs that you have to attach to the end hold the weight when one is spinning their poi at full speed? More to the point, will it hold up over time?
My roommate showed me the chain one his his friends uses. The hardware store uses it to hold the pens to the drawers in the hardware section, but doesn't stock it. Go figure
J
A witty saying proves nothing.- Voltaire (1694-1778)
poo-bah
1,015 posts
Location: Austin TX USA
1,015 posts
Location: Austin TX USA
Posted:
Cable's been discussed quite a bit here before. Yes, it is more than strong enough, even the skinny 1/16" stuff. It's a good idea to work a fishing swivel into one of the ends when you make loops on the ends, so wind-up can be released.
Cables do kink. This isn't necessarily a deal-breaker, but eventually a strand may break at a kink, which (IMHO) is a deal-breaker. A kinked cable is harder to untwist when you get tangled, and winds up getting more kinked.
Cable's been discussed quite a bit here before. Yes, it is more than strong enough, even the skinny 1/16" stuff. It's a good idea to work a fishing swivel into one of the ends when you make loops on the ends, so wind-up can be released.
Cables do kink. This isn't necessarily a deal-breaker, but eventually a strand may break at a kink, which (IMHO) is a deal-breaker. A kinked cable is harder to untwist when you get tangled, and winds up getting more kinked.
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
member
22 posts
Location: USA
22 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
I actually went to home depot and found Nickel plated sash chain (I think that's it). I didn't like the splits on the end of each link, where they meet, but it's welded, and it's reated at 75 pounds pull, so I guess it'll do for now. I'll work with it a while before hooking wicks to it, though. Say, anyone know where to get wick material in the US? Any big chain stores or anything?
I actually went to home depot and found Nickel plated sash chain (I think that's it). I didn't like the splits on the end of each link, where they meet, but it's welded, and it's reated at 75 pounds pull, so I guess it'll do for now. I'll work with it a while before hooking wicks to it, though. Say, anyone know where to get wick material in the US? Any big chain stores or anything?
A witty saying proves nothing.- Voltaire (1694-1778)
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Places to buy wick? Depends on where you are. It's been discussed quite a bit before. Of course you can buy it from HoP too. I'm lucky, I've got a place right downtown (Dube) for my impulse kevlar buys.
And yeah, I don't really like cable.
Places to buy wick? Depends on where you are. It's been discussed quite a bit before. Of course you can buy it from HoP too. I'm lucky, I've got a place right downtown (Dube) for my impulse kevlar buys.
And yeah, I don't really like cable.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
member
250 posts
Location: Upland, CA., USA
250 posts
Location: Upland, CA., USA
Posted:
I am a cable user. I started out with chains, and moved up to cable. Less tangles, better behaving, and safer for wraps.
1/16" is perfect. Those little sleeves make a safe and permanent connection. Hardwire your swivel in the loop when you make it.
Store them by hanging them on the wall with a weight (like a boot) attached to the end. This will staighten out any kinks that may be developing. I also transport them staight alongside my staffs in my golf club bag.
Kevlar? Most of us have to order it. You should learn how to make terrycloth poi. Cheaper and just as good for practice.
Good luck.
Maximus
I am a cable user. I started out with chains, and moved up to cable. Less tangles, better behaving, and safer for wraps.
1/16" is perfect. Those little sleeves make a safe and permanent connection. Hardwire your swivel in the loop when you make it.
Store them by hanging them on the wall with a weight (like a boot) attached to the end. This will staighten out any kinks that may be developing. I also transport them staight alongside my staffs in my golf club bag.
Kevlar? Most of us have to order it. You should learn how to make terrycloth poi. Cheaper and just as good for practice.
Good luck.
Maximus
back from the dead...sort of
884 posts
Location: 43°41'N 79°38'W
884 posts
Location: 43°41'N 79°38'W
Posted:
Maximus, how do you make your cable? I made some yesterday and they largely tear the skin when I try wraps. I used 1/16th aircraft with crimped sleeves to make the loops. Are yours different?
Maximus, how do you make your cable? I made some yesterday and they largely tear the skin when I try wraps. I used 1/16th aircraft with crimped sleeves to make the loops. Are yours different?
member
250 posts
Location: Upland, CA., USA
250 posts
Location: Upland, CA., USA
Posted:
That's how I make mine. Just be sure the cut end of the cable is slightly recessed within the sleeve, or else it will cut and scratch. I do leg wraps, bicep wraps and a throat/face wrap. I don't get any skin tears. Maybe it is your technique.
Are you pulling on the cable to get it to unwrap? Try slowing down and just let the poi bounce off or stall by itself.
Maximus
That's how I make mine. Just be sure the cut end of the cable is slightly recessed within the sleeve, or else it will cut and scratch. I do leg wraps, bicep wraps and a throat/face wrap. I don't get any skin tears. Maybe it is your technique.
Are you pulling on the cable to get it to unwrap? Try slowing down and just let the poi bounce off or stall by itself.
Maximus
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Strange... I find that cable, the few times I played with them, tangled much more than ball chain. I didn't feel safe with anything I could tie a knot in...
I'm ball chain all the way.
Strange... I find that cable, the few times I played with them, tangled much more than ball chain. I didn't feel safe with anything I could tie a knot in...
I'm ball chain all the way.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
back from the dead...sort of
884 posts
Location: 43°41'N 79°38'W
884 posts
Location: 43°41'N 79°38'W
Posted:
I'm all for ball chain too, but I thought it would be nice to have an alternative around...
Maximus, yours sound just like mine...I've even tucked the ends away inside the sleeve as you have. I think I pull when I do my wraps...I've now tried a few bouncy ones and they're much nicer. Thanks man.
I'm all for ball chain too, but I thought it would be nice to have an alternative around...
Maximus, yours sound just like mine...I've even tucked the ends away inside the sleeve as you have. I think I pull when I do my wraps...I've now tried a few bouncy ones and they're much nicer. Thanks man.
member
22 posts
Location: USA
22 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Doesn't the sleeve melt when you burn?
Doesn't the sleeve melt when you burn?
A witty saying proves nothing.- Voltaire (1694-1778)
member
250 posts
Location: Upland, CA., USA
250 posts
Location: Upland, CA., USA
Posted:
No. The sleeves are made of solid aluminum or zinc plated copper. No melting but they do get red hot. Squash them about halfway down with a hammer.
Maximus
No. The sleeves are made of solid aluminum or zinc plated copper. No melting but they do get red hot. Squash them about halfway down with a hammer.
Maximus
SILVER Member
Veteran Member
495 posts
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Veteran Member
495 posts
Location: Tampa, FL, USA
Posted:
i've also seen some of the smaller dogchain break before. I would recommend examining what the chain is rated at. And remember that spinning an object creates more force on the chain. Cable kinks & can be knotted, and doesn't "twist" requiring a swivel. Ballchain has swivels at every point, and seem very reliable. I have not had a failure yet, however just due to wear and tear, would prolly recommend changing ANY kind of cable at least once a year. Nothing is fullproof...
plurr
ÇrÐ
i've also seen some of the smaller dogchain break before. I would recommend examining what the chain is rated at. And remember that spinning an object creates more force on the chain. Cable kinks & can be knotted, and doesn't "twist" requiring a swivel. Ballchain has swivels at every point, and seem very reliable. I have not had a failure yet, however just due to wear and tear, would prolly recommend changing ANY kind of cable at least once a year. Nothing is fullproof...
plurr
ÇrÐ
-=ÇrazyRaverÐude=-
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
quote:Not even the word foolproof.
Nothing is fullproof...
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
member
22 posts
Location: USA
22 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
HA! The sash chain just broke on me tonight, after about 2 weeks. It's says 75 pounds, but I don't think it takes into acount multiple high-speed impacts. I guess it's back to the drawing board...
HA! The sash chain just broke on me tonight, after about 2 weeks. It's says 75 pounds, but I don't think it takes into acount multiple high-speed impacts. I guess it's back to the drawing board...
A witty saying proves nothing.- Voltaire (1694-1778)
member
2 posts
Location: nyc
2 posts
Location: nyc
Posted:
from a physics standpoint, i would mos def make the tennis ball/ wick heavier than the chain.
as for chain type, i use ball chain on one set and heavy gague toilet chain on another (go ahead, open the back an check it out). i believe the ball chain is superior for hand wraps especially, because it puts less stress on your fingers. aircraft cable bends and gets "kinky" after awhile, providing less flex and durability.
lemme STRESS THIS POINT, though:
**check yoself befo you wreck yoself!!!!**
before i spin my chains, lit or unlit, i inspect the chain, all of my fasteners, my handles, **everything** for wear and tear.
from a physics standpoint, i would mos def make the tennis ball/ wick heavier than the chain.
as for chain type, i use ball chain on one set and heavy gague toilet chain on another (go ahead, open the back an check it out). i believe the ball chain is superior for hand wraps especially, because it puts less stress on your fingers. aircraft cable bends and gets "kinky" after awhile, providing less flex and durability.
lemme STRESS THIS POINT, though:
**check yoself befo you wreck yoself!!!!**
before i spin my chains, lit or unlit, i inspect the chain, all of my fasteners, my handles, **everything** for wear and tear.
conserve fossil fuels!! burn a hippie.
member
22 posts
Location: USA
22 posts
Location: USA
Posted:
Isn't the toilet chain just a sash chain? I was happy with it for a while, and it's rated at 75 lbs, It's just that the welds are on the narrow end of the chain, and I really think that is not a good place for them to be. Like I said, mine might have broke due to too many collisions. I would try ball chain, but I'm not sure where to pick it up locally. I would order from HOP, but I'm just a working stiff, ya know?
Isn't the toilet chain just a sash chain? I was happy with it for a while, and it's rated at 75 lbs, It's just that the welds are on the narrow end of the chain, and I really think that is not a good place for them to be. Like I said, mine might have broke due to too many collisions. I would try ball chain, but I'm not sure where to pick it up locally. I would order from HOP, but I'm just a working stiff, ya know?
A witty saying proves nothing.- Voltaire (1694-1778)
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