Forums > Technical Discussion > Feelings about teaching people???

Login/Join to Participate
Page: 12
Katinca
Katinca

See my vest.... see my vest...
Location: Adelaide - South Australia
Member Since: 9th May 2001
Total posts: 693
Posted:Recently Josh and I took a fire-twirling course, and taught some kids and adults how to use staff and poi in a 12 hour course run over the weekend. By the end of the course all of the students had a burn and loved it. And some had progressed really really well.

Josh and I were talking about teaching people, as alot of the time, we (well Josh mostly.... ) end up whenever we are twirling somewhere teaching a move to someone. If you are patient enough, the person will get that move, with in reasonable period. It's great to teach people. But at the same time its difficult and can be a little frustrating.

Both of us have been twirling for about 2 years now, and for the first 6-8 months, we didn't even know about HOP, we just fumbled along, working out new moves, and going through alot of pain, and frustration. HOP came along and Josh learnt a whole lot of moves from that, then he then taught me or I watched him and worked out how to do some of the moves, now that I could see them and know they were possible.

Now two years down the track, give us about 6-12 hours with someone who has relatively little experience with poi and we can teach you a lot of moves. Moves that I remember taking me 6-8 months to work out and finally perfect. And I guess that something that gets to me a little. I can teach someone a move that took me soooo long to get, and they can get in within a few hours. I only wish that I had a teacher that could teach me a stack of moves that they have learnt....Sage?? Can I borrow you for a few hours However, both Josh and I don't have that here, we are always the ones teaching new moves to people that have taken us ages to perfect. So we have all these people who probably think that poi is pretty easy....but everything is relatively easy when you have someone there telling you exactly where and when your hands should be and what you are doing wrong.

I really like teaching people new moves, it's really great to see people get these moves, but I guess at the same time I have a little resentment?? ( I don't think this is the right word, but it will do for now) because I know how long some of these moves took me to learn and if I had a teacher when I was learning them then I would have got them pretty quick too.

Although I have to say, even when people are new to poi, and learn all the moves, there is certainly a grace? fluidity/ style that comes with time. Alot of people who have been taught all the moves in a short period of time, can do them all, but still have a problem in transitions between moves, they tend to look clunky and a bit yo-yoie and I guess thats ok if you like your style like that, I guess. Josh and Myself can teach a few tricks in 12 hours, the grace, and transitional fluidity doesn't happen over night, I think that is the thing that takes time to work on. But then again...maybe that's just me/us?

Although I know myself I choose to practice in front of a mirror or with my shadow to the ground so I can see what it looks like, that way I can move my body, in directions that are more pleasing to the eye, or try and move much more gracefully. This is something I have only been doing for probably the last 6-8 months. As now I am confident enough with all the moves that I know, I can start really fire *dancing*. And I have to say my style has improved alot since I have started doing this...

Just some thoughts....and ramble. But has anyone else found this with teaching people?

Kate


Love and Light

~*~ Katinca ~*~

Delete Topic

Sepa
member
Location: London
Member Since: 24th Apr 2002
Total posts: 184
Posted:Interesting stuff, Audax, and a useful thing to remember. What's the name of the book you're reading? sounds really interesting.

Delete

arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:man, check out any book about neurolinguistics, and also any book or article about neural pathway formation, for other cool insights about learning and memory. the whole body, from brain to muscle, is an open matrix ready to be programmed (or reprogrammed) and there are many possibilities on which paths people have aptitudes to follow. anyway check em out if that seemed interesting

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

Delete

Fairy Lady
member
Location: fairieland
Member Since: 4th Apr 2002
Total posts: 63
Posted:I have a related question on this. I have been spending massive amounts of time at festivals teaching people poi durring the day and as a vendor I don't have the time. i love to teach them, but when the sun is up I must make money so when the sun goes down I can enjoy the fire. How much on avrerage do people charge? I was thinking of doing a workshop for free to get everyone done at one time, but there are some that will need individual help cause they know the basics and they want to learn harder stuff. so any suggestions on pricing would be appriciated
Molly


Delete

audax
audax

freelance bum
Location: Upstairs
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 286
Posted:Another problem I think of when proposing to charge is that a lot of the time the most effective way to help them learn is to get them onto a move then let them practise without me for a while. Can you charge per hour while letting them do it themselves?

UYI wink OLDSKOOL

Delete

Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:I charge between $15 and $22 per hour, but that is with donated space so I don't have to rent it and they use my things, or I show them how to make them. And yes, audax, you can charge while letting them go without you. However, you have to "supervise", be there to help them spot check when something goes wrong and help them figure out to fix it, or be there in case someone gets hurts or whatever. You are still there but you are not walking them through the motions step by step.
Hope this helps!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Delete

audax
audax

freelance bum
Location: Upstairs
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 286
Posted:Yeah that's wicked. thanks. I would do it the same way as you Pele, with my own toys and in unrented space.
Have you ever tried to teach someone who just doesn't get it? No matter how many lessons you give them?What then?


UYI wink OLDSKOOL

Delete

Charly
member
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 68
Posted:We've been teaching poi at festivals and regularly on Monday nights here in Seattle for 2 years now.

Not only has it improved our technique and understanding of the moves, but we now have students who can perform with us!

We also teach club-swinging, fire safety, performance skills, and other related subjects. It's a lot of fun.

Patience really comes in to the picture, though, because some people just aren't as coordinated as others. What one student can learn in a night takes another three weeks to get. And the same way of explaining a move doesn't always get through to everyone; it helps to have multiple ways to explain things.

As far as wanting to protect your knowledge and not freely dispense it to others because you suffered to teach yourself... we totally understand that. But at the same time, people are going to learn one way or another so we might as well help them!

As for what we charge, we ask a $10 per 1-1/2 hour class. That's very reasonable, we think. For private lessons, we charge $20/hour. If we are doing a fire rehearsal, we ask students to bring fuel.

Anyway, I recommend teaching if it's something that interests you. It's very rewarding and fun.

Charly
The Cabiri
www.cabiri.org


Delete

wanderinglinton
member
Location: Taiwan
Member Since: 18th Apr 2002
Total posts: 31
Posted:Whilst I empathise with many of the previous points about teaching people in a short period what it took me months to work out on my own, I have a slightly different perspective due to my current location. I am in Tainan in Taiwan and there ain't no others here spinning but me and the people I teach and get started.

I taught a girl the other day to do the 5 beat weave in 15 minutes - something that took me months to realise was even possible (pre finding HOP days). I gritted my teeth when I thought about how long it had taken me without a teacher.

Yet, I find that teaching other people gives me a) some other people to play with, and b) pushes me to improve my technique and skills at the same time.

I find it easy to teach people - especially now that I've made a pair of sticks with balls on the end to help people visualise where their hands and the poi should be at all points of the move.

But then I'm a teacher - If I wasn't any good at explaining things to people I'd be in trouble - haha.


Delete

Spyke
member
Location: Wageningen
Member Since: 22nd Feb 2002
Total posts: 28
Posted:Like a lot of you, i too find teching a satisfying experiencem though at times frustraing. You have to enjoy the feeling of that gifted student who seems to pick up moves a creepily easily and even after a short teaching session has worked out most by themselves enough to provide you with a few alterations to your style, a differetn passover or somethiing. But i also hate when you try to teach moves when they aren't prepared to properly learn the basic figure 8 with both hands forwards and backwards. If they don't have these and try to learn new moves of you it is very hard. They need to understand hey importance of these basic building blocks before they can progress. Audax, i would also like to teach people aswell as a find it comes naturally and have had lots of experience in the matter, even before staff. If you and PK would like any help to get something started i offer my assistance.

This site i discovered a little too late too learn more than a couopple moves, most have been through workshopping with my friend who i taught and now teaches me moves (and visa versa still) but i find that in the limited time that he has learnt that he lacks style and grace, something that time is the only teacher for.

Spyke (AKA Craig)
Fire Escape


'At this moment, you should be with us, feeling like we do, like you loved to, but never will again.'

Delete

audax
audax

freelance bum
Location: Upstairs
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 286
Posted:Spyke I'm not actually in Perth anymore but in Broome for winter. I must have met you at South Beach Park Monday nights though. Not sure if they are still going during the wet. Nothing regular up here at the moment but just random beach gatherings and Sunset busking

UYI wink OLDSKOOL

Delete

Jez
addict
Location: UK, London
Member Since: 11th Apr 2001
Total posts: 642
Posted:I love to teach people new stuff all the time but the other week I was given a harsh challenge.

I was asked to teach two french girls how to do poi. Now I do not speak a word of french and they knew very little English but by exaggerating the moves and braking them down to there pure elements without saying a word, I did manage to teach them a few moves.

Within about an hour they were doing the 2 beat weave, the butterfly, the overhead butterfly, mexican wave and on the way to learning the three beat weave (I found the 3 beat too hard to explain without using words)

I thought I would post this as I thought it was a very strange phenomena that I could teach so much using only body language.


'Happiness is liking peeing on yourself. Everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth.'

'If *I* had a hammer, there'd be no more folk singers.'

Delete

Whiffle Squeek
Whiffle Squeek

addict
Location: Hartford, CT USA
Member Since: 29th Oct 2001
Total posts: 416
Posted:ouch Kyrian, you dont consider me and Hitokage local teachers?

last time i spend an afternoon watching you clock yourself with a staff...



just joking of course, i love teaching, i love to share what i have learned, and i guess part of that is being able to show off, but the other big part of it is knowing what an incredible thing youre passing onto someone else...
even if you dont teach them much, youve given them the opprotunity to learn all that they want, which is basically how i teach, i give a little lesson, give the person this website, and if theyre truly interseted theyll either learn themselves, or come back to me for help, either of which is acceptable, just so long as they have the drive for it.
i generally dont have the problem of people mooching moves, because htey arent many experienced spinners in my area, though i always share new moves with the one who does live down the street from me, partly because he did start me on this and i feel that he is entitled to anything i learn, but also because if i merely progressed myself, whos gonna be there to continue my drive for new moves??? i think everyone will agree when i say, the main drive to learn a new move is when you see someone you often spin with do it flawlessly, theres just an urge to be able to do it as well, and hows that person gonna show new moves to you, if youre withholding moves that could aid their progression???

well, those are my selfish reasons i guess, because theyre all about helong me spin in the end, but there are non selfish ones as well, the main one being, i just love the look of realization that comes onto someones face when they get, that look is priceless...


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

Delete

Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:but i bet they don't all jump up and down like i did when you said i was doing a three-beat weave.

the local teachers comment was written back when you two were busy with school and i was slacking.

you pay no attention to me with poi though. luv u dearly when it comes to staff, (altho you get distracted easily ) but ... damnit, i lost my train of thought. i'm paying more attention to the music. i'm going to capture you some weekend and we are going to do something about my poi skills (or lack thereof).

on an interesting note, i have had my first expierience teaching.... darling nyx, which was interesting (lol she's gonna pass me up soon but hey, what a sweetheart, i couldn't be happier)
hope she didn't suffer too much for being my guinea pig. and hopefully she can help me loosen up !

Luv ya guys, Peace.
-The somewhat tired and loopy Kyrian-


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Delete

Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Anyhoo, wern't you the one who said 15 miles was far away?

Waterford is definetly more than 15 miles. Or at least, about 15 miles.

*thinks*

I don't remember what i was babbling about last night, but Whiffle Squeek i love you and Hitokage, don;t doubt it. Thanks for ur help, past and future.

Peace & Love, Kyrian


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Delete

audax
audax

freelance bum
Location: Upstairs
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 286
Posted:2300km from my home and most of my fire crew
Thats far!


UYI wink OLDSKOOL

Delete

audax
audax

freelance bum
Location: Upstairs
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 286
Posted:New crew forming. It's Ok everyone, please no more notes of sympathy

UYI wink OLDSKOOL

Delete

filthy 23
filthy 23

member
Location: USA
Member Since: 22nd Nov 2003
Total posts: 136
Posted:This is a thread that I read in 2002, and it came at just the right moment for me. Made me cry. At work and everything. What was going on in my life is that I had just heard one of those fire elitists talking [censored] about me for teaching some basic poi stuff to others, and was feeling pretty insecure about teaching. When I read this, it reaffirmed the path I was on. I printed it out and still carry it around with me. And I still teach, which has been rewarding beyond all hopes. A belated thank you from the bottom of my heart to the participants in this thread ~ Katinca, Pele, Dom, Arashi, Audex, Bender, Kyrian, Bec, etc... Here is a small summary of the highlights:
Written by: Dom
And to teach and share something that brings much bouncy joy is very rewarding!


Written by: bec
but...and as with anything.. you learn things by teaching too... sometimes in having to explain something really clearly, it becomes clearer for you too and it may lead to other new discoveries that evolve from that deeper understanding...
I really love teaching now... the sense of discovery, the satisfaction I get from watching others find their passion in it, the renewed enthusiasm I feel from their contagious energy... and the push it gives me to keep expanding my technique too...


Written by: Pele

It takes a very special type of person to be able to teach, from the patience and ability perspective. You have imprinted your style and knowledge upon them. What you gave them is a solid beginning to their spinning journey. Maybe those of us who did not have the graces of a teacher learned the hard way, but that is what defines an art and paves the way for evolution. Instead of being a bit put off by this, you should stand up and beam with pride over being a pioneer. They will evolve, change and struggle in their own time, but think of it this way, you gave them the wings, now they can choose to follow you and fly!
Congratualtions beautiful one(s)!



ubblove


I AM working.

Delete

Cody
Cody

That guy from Reno
Location: Reno, Nevada USA
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2003
Total posts: 556
Posted:That person who was putting you down for teaching is very insecure with themselves. Don't let it get you down. Teaching is a very noble thing that goes beyond ones ego. It takes courage, especially when your pupil passes you up. Take pride in the joy you give. Take pride in seeing parts of yourself in others spinning techniques. You helped them with that smile. wink

Cody Canon
Controlled Burn, Reno Nevada

Delete

Lillie Frog
Lillie Frog

not a stranger
Location: wales
Member Since: 31st May 2004
Total posts: 558
Posted:I love poi, I realy enjoy it, it relaxes me. wether I am spinning fire or fixing tennis balls to shoe laces, I love it.
I don't get out much for various reasons but I have learned from the videos here on HOP, from videos on other sites, and from a book.
These things have taught me and if people had not made the videos or writ the book to share their knowledge then I would not have this happy poi thing in my life and I would be a sadder person.
So, thankyou to all the teachers, book writers and video makers out there who have been generous enough to share their knowledge and their skill.


Eat when you're hungry
Sleep where it's dry
No one is ever what they seem
Gabriel King - The Wild Road

Delete

Paddington Bear
member

Member Since: 19th Jan 2010
Total posts: 118
Posted:6 years dump on this thread but lets see if anyones paying attention.

any advice on how to teach moves or in what order? im going away with my girlfriend next weekend and im going to start teaching her poi. any ideas to help me?


fire is alive. it lives and breathes. it consumes and destroys. but we control it and live with it, we are fire dancers

Delete

Page: 12