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Forums > Technical Discussion > Making A Monkey Fist Knot
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Posted:Help!! I'm planning on making kevlar rope poi with monkey fist knots at the end.Has anyone got advise on making them? What's got me stuck is the amount of kevlar rope needed for the whole thing? I'm planning on them being 1.5 foot long using the 10mm think rope.Any help much needed/appreciated.PLURRFireMorphster:0)~[This message has been edited by FireMorphster (edited 02 April 2002).]
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Posted:Funny you should ask. I've experimented with monkey-fists a bit lately.I was using kevlar rope that is nominally 0.5" thick, but pretty stretchy, so it necked down to a smaller diameter when stretched. It took about 96" to make a basic monkey-fist knot with this stuff, if I recall correctly. I made a set of "whip poi" where I left 14" pigtails at each end, and joined the ends with ring clamps to a quick-link, and hooked the quick-link to a short section of ball-chain, to provide some heat isolation and swivelling action. In the end, there was about 10" of whip and knot (there was some overlap of the rope at the top), and about 6" of ball-chain.Results from these whip-poi were unsatisfactory: the pigtail sections burned out after about a minute, and the friend I made them for suffered four freak burns on separate occasions using them. I want to try again with different rope. I've been using plain monkey-fist poi without whip sections, and those are fine. They're a little more aerodynamic than my interleave wicks, so they spin a little faster (doesn't suit my style), but other than that, I like 'em.Good luck.
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
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Posted:I've made something similar to Adam. I used 4m of kevlar rope, a small monkey fist at the end (2 loops of rope) and doubled up the kevlar rope for the 'pigtail', aiming for a bigger and longer flame. Nice addition to my toy family.
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Posted:I've wanted to be able to make a Monkey Fist for ages now - can anyone tell me how?---------------------------------------"With a bit of luck, his life was ruined; always thinking that just behind some narrow door, in his favourite bars, men in red woolen suits are getting incredible kicks from things he'll never know."
---------------------With a bit of luck, his life was ruined; always thinking that just behind some narrow door, in his favourite bars, men in red woolen suits are getting incredible kicks from things he'll never know.
DeletePosted:To paraphrase C@ntus (I think)...I hear there's this internet thingy where they have search engines where you type things in and you can find stuff out
Non-Https Image Link
Or ask somebody who already looked and found Ropers Knot Page - The Frequently Asked Knots Page.This one's on the house
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Or ask somebody who already looked and found Ropers Knot Page - The Frequently Asked Knots Page.This one's on the house
Non-Https Image Link
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Posted:Better yet, check this out:http://www.sacdelta.com/safety/knots/m_fista.htmAnimated instructions. Cool. Even a klutz like me got it after only a couple tries.For my own monkey fists, I found that the standard knot was a little too small and light. The monkey fist is basically three loops each on three axes; I modified that to four loops each on three axes (and I'm thinking of going for five next).
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
DeletePosted:Cheers for the info!! Maybe wrapping normal wick around the pigtails will increase burn time, as the if the rope is inside the wicking then they would act as a fuel reserve. I'll give it a try
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I'm off to create
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Thanx again for the ideasFireMorphster:0)~[This message has been edited by FireMorphster (edited 03 April 2002).]
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I'm off to create
Non-Https Image Link
Thanx again for the ideasFireMorphster:0)~[This message has been edited by FireMorphster (edited 03 April 2002).]
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Posted:Firemorphster and others!
Help please!! Im bumping this thread cuz im wanting to make a monkey fist knot on the end of the 10mm kevlar rope. Does anyone know how much space this knot will take up? Cuz I need to know how much to order.
Ive tried to calculate by doing a little one, but it seems like id need about 3m, which cant be right!!!
Thanks!
Help please!! Im bumping this thread cuz im wanting to make a monkey fist knot on the end of the 10mm kevlar rope. Does anyone know how much space this knot will take up? Cuz I need to know how much to order.
Ive tried to calculate by doing a little one, but it seems like id need about 3m, which cant be right!!!
Thanks!
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Posted:I made small monkey fist knots (only 2 strands per 'side' of the knot, not 3) and it takes up a little over a metre.
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Posted:1 knot - thinking about it you also need more than a meter to start the knot with. With a monkey fist you make the shape then tighten it up, so you might use 2 metres to create a knot and then have a tail on it. This is how mine are made.
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Posted:Mine worked out the same of Dom's.
I bought about 6 foot 10mm rope, after I tightened the knot (3 strands) it left me with tails just short of a foot long.
Dobber marbles work a treat to put in the middle!
I bought about 6 foot 10mm rope, after I tightened the knot (3 strands) it left me with tails just short of a foot long.
Dobber marbles work a treat to put in the middle!
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Posted:Thanks Guys!
Im now gonna try to make a pair of those 'snakes' on the bearclaw website!
Im now gonna try to make a pair of those 'snakes' on the bearclaw website!
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Posted:just made a set of meteors with monkey fist knots on the ends out of a continuous 20' of 1/2" kevlar rope. my problem is that they seem WAY too light. finished length is about 8' and I feel like there's not enough weight to the knots on the ends.
as far as the question of how much rope it takes - with the 1/2" rope I used about 6' for EACH knot - 3-strand ea. way size. and about a foot extra on each end makes it pretty easy to tie & then tighten.
I'm going to try to weight them down with & see if that makes em easier to handle. maybe it's just the extra length that I'm not used to...
as far as the question of how much rope it takes - with the 1/2" rope I used about 6' for EACH knot - 3-strand ea. way size. and about a foot extra on each end makes it pretty easy to tie & then tighten.
I'm going to try to weight them down with & see if that makes em easier to handle. maybe it's just the extra length that I'm not used to...
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Posted:I've never made one, but a monkey fist knot has a weight inside of it. A stone or I've heard a tire lug works good.
The monkey fist knot was used when a sailor had to throw a rope a long distance--too another ship or to shore.
Also dipping it in fuel will heavy it up quite a bit. That much kevlar should soak up a lot.
Good luck.
Maximus
The monkey fist knot was used when a sailor had to throw a rope a long distance--too another ship or to shore.
Also dipping it in fuel will heavy it up quite a bit. That much kevlar should soak up a lot.
Good luck.
Maximus
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Posted:You can weight a monkey-fist knot with something in the middle, but make it something soft, for goodness' sake!
The best thing would be to use something that would absorb fuel--more wicking, or perhaps a wad of cotton wool (which wouldn't add any appreciable weight dry, but would soak up a lot of fuel).
The best thing would be to use something that would absorb fuel--more wicking, or perhaps a wad of cotton wool (which wouldn't add any appreciable weight dry, but would soak up a lot of fuel).
Laugh while you can, monkey-boy
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Posted:The lady that makes the snakes for Bearclaw warns about using metal for the weight. She tried a few but it caused the kevlar in the knot to wear out really fast.
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Posted:hmm i need to use a rope?!
what kind of rope, a kevlar rope?!
where da hell am i supposed to find that?
HELP!
what kind of rope, a kevlar rope?!
where da hell am i supposed to find that?
HELP!
Love is Life
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Posted:Monkey fists don't *need* a weight in them, they are quite heavy enough without (and as a sailor I can assure you they perform their original function just fine without - that's the point, the knot turns any old bit of line into a decent throwing weight). When you use a monkeyfist for toys, be aware that the knot will be heavy and hard! My small practice meteor is made of 5mm rope with 6 turns in the knots, and it has taken chunks out of my shins, really, I've got some lethal heavy poi but nothing comes near the knots!
Give yourself plenty of rope to play with, and perhaps buy yourself some cheap rope to practice with (something nice and smooth that will undo easily rather than fraying your kevlar). A good size knot might only take about a metre or rope when it is properly tightened, but you won't get it tight until the knot has been formed, so you do need 50-100% extra to give you room to work, you take up the slack methodically when you are done. As you get better you can work with less slack rope, but you do still need space to thread the rope through. Incidentally, tying it as tight as you can as you form the knot will make it neater as well, as long as you know what you are doing.
One other quick tip, many instructons, including the link above show you how to form the knot around your four fingers, forming the first set of loops, then passing the rope between your middle and ring finger. Trouble is, you run out of space for the rope, so you either have to stack the rope for the second set of loops, making it harder to get a neat row of loops, or remove it from your hand inevitably losing the whole thing! I recommend folding back your middle two fingers (like a rock hands gesture) or for a small knot, just use the index and ring fingers with the middle folded back. You can actually loosely tie the whole knot pretty neatly like this, or, once you get good at it, remove it from your hand as you begin the third set of loops.
Oh, and noone linked to this yet: http://www.homeofpoi.com/articles/monkey_fist.php
Give yourself plenty of rope to play with, and perhaps buy yourself some cheap rope to practice with (something nice and smooth that will undo easily rather than fraying your kevlar). A good size knot might only take about a metre or rope when it is properly tightened, but you won't get it tight until the knot has been formed, so you do need 50-100% extra to give you room to work, you take up the slack methodically when you are done. As you get better you can work with less slack rope, but you do still need space to thread the rope through. Incidentally, tying it as tight as you can as you form the knot will make it neater as well, as long as you know what you are doing.
One other quick tip, many instructons, including the link above show you how to form the knot around your four fingers, forming the first set of loops, then passing the rope between your middle and ring finger. Trouble is, you run out of space for the rope, so you either have to stack the rope for the second set of loops, making it harder to get a neat row of loops, or remove it from your hand inevitably losing the whole thing! I recommend folding back your middle two fingers (like a rock hands gesture) or for a small knot, just use the index and ring fingers with the middle folded back. You can actually loosely tie the whole knot pretty neatly like this, or, once you get good at it, remove it from your hand as you begin the third set of loops.
Oh, and noone linked to this yet: http://www.homeofpoi.com/articles/monkey_fist.php
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Posted: Written by: adamrice
The best thing would be to use something that would absorb fuel--more wicking, or perhaps a wad of cotton wool (which wouldn't add any appreciable weight dry, but would soak up a lot of fuel).
If you want anything cotton wool-like in your fire toys, I would suggest using rock wool, as cotton wool will burn up. But you really don't need anything inside your knots.
The best thing would be to use something that would absorb fuel--more wicking, or perhaps a wad of cotton wool (which wouldn't add any appreciable weight dry, but would soak up a lot of fuel).
If you want anything cotton wool-like in your fire toys, I would suggest using rock wool, as cotton wool will burn up. But you really don't need anything inside your knots.
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Posted:What is done with the extra rope after the knot is tied? All the monkey fist poi I see online don't have the end pieces sticking out but all the directions show the end pices magically disappearing. I don't get it!
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Posted:The two ends of the cord used to make the knot are cut flush with the knot and secured to the core.
I would suggest a small stitch or five to secure it and then some white glue. probably you can do either or both and it will hold ok.
I would suggest a small stitch or five to secure it and then some white glue. probably you can do either or both and it will hold ok.
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Posted:I would be unsure as to whether glue alone would hold it as they do get bashed around a lot as fire heads, but decent sewing will.
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Posted:I know how to make a monkey fist ball, but I want to finish it off so I just have the ball without the ropes coming out. I'm having a tough time finding a site that shows me how to do that. If anyone can help, it would be much appreciated!
Thanks!
Thanks!
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georgemc
BRONZE Member since Oct 2006
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Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch
Total posts: 2387
BRONZE Member since Oct 2006
Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch
Total posts: 2387
Posted:To finish the knot off you pull the rope as tight as you can and then cut off the excess rope flush with the surface of the knot. If you've pulled it tight enough the end will tend to pop back into the guts of the knot and be hidden, and if you didn't have it tight enough then you can push it back into the knot. THen you can seal the end of the cut rope with a dollop of glue.
Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread
I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it. 
Posted:I sew the end to the knot to hold it tighter. Although George's way does work I don't like to rest the fate of a burning fireball staying on or off your chains on the tightness of your knot.
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