.Morph.
.Morph.

addict
Location: Lancashire, UK
Member Since: 23rd Mar 2002
Total posts: 669
Posted:Help!! I'm planning on making kevlar rope poi with monkey fist knots at the end.Has anyone got advise on making them? What's got me stuck is the amount of kevlar rope needed for the whole thing? I'm planning on them being 1.5 foot long using the 10mm think rope.Any help much needed/appreciated.PLURRFireMorphster:0)~[This message has been edited by FireMorphster (edited 02 April 2002).]

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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:Funny you should ask. I've experimented with monkey-fists a bit lately.I was using kevlar rope that is nominally 0.5" thick, but pretty stretchy, so it necked down to a smaller diameter when stretched. It took about 96" to make a basic monkey-fist knot with this stuff, if I recall correctly. I made a set of "whip poi" where I left 14" pigtails at each end, and joined the ends with ring clamps to a quick-link, and hooked the quick-link to a short section of ball-chain, to provide some heat isolation and swivelling action. In the end, there was about 10" of whip and knot (there was some overlap of the rope at the top), and about 6" of ball-chain.Results from these whip-poi were unsatisfactory: the pigtail sections burned out after about a minute, and the friend I made them for suffered four freak burns on separate occasions using them. I want to try again with different rope. I've been using plain monkey-fist poi without whip sections, and those are fine. They're a little more aerodynamic than my interleave wicks, so they spin a little faster (doesn't suit my style), but other than that, I like 'em.Good luck.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:I've made something similar to Adam. I used 4m of kevlar rope, a small monkey fist at the end (2 loops of rope) and doubled up the kevlar rope for the 'pigtail', aiming for a bigger and longer flame. Nice addition to my toy family.

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Jangla
member
Location: Oxford, UK
Member Since: 28th Aug 2001
Total posts: 155
Posted:I've wanted to be able to make a Monkey Fist for ages now - can anyone tell me how?---------------------------------------"With a bit of luck, his life was ruined; always thinking that just behind some narrow door, in his favourite bars, men in red woolen suits are getting incredible kicks from things he'll never know."

---------------------With a bit of luck, his life was ruined; always thinking that just behind some narrow door, in his favourite bars, men in red woolen suits are getting incredible kicks from things he'll never know.

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:To paraphrase C@ntus (I think)...I hear there's this internet thingy where they have search engines where you type things in and you can find stuff out
Non-Https Image Link
Or ask somebody who already looked and found Ropers Knot Page - The Frequently Asked Knots Page.This one's on the house
Non-Https Image Link


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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:Better yet, check this out:http://www.sacdelta.com/safety/knots/m_fista.htmAnimated instructions. Cool. Even a klutz like me got it after only a couple tries.For my own monkey fists, I found that the standard knot was a little too small and light. The monkey fist is basically three loops each on three axes; I modified that to four loops each on three axes (and I'm thinking of going for five next).

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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.Morph.
.Morph.

addict
Location: Lancashire, UK
Member Since: 23rd Mar 2002
Total posts: 669
Posted:Cheers for the info!! Maybe wrapping normal wick around the pigtails will increase burn time, as the if the rope is inside the wicking then they would act as a fuel reserve. I'll give it a try
Non-Https Image Link
I'm off to create
Non-Https Image Link
Thanx again for the ideasFireMorphster:0)~[This message has been edited by FireMorphster (edited 03 April 2002).]


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greenfyregirl
greenfyregirl

journeyman
Location: Cheltenham, England
Member Since: 13th Apr 2002
Total posts: 55
Posted:Firemorphster and others!

Help please!! Im bumping this thread cuz im wanting to make a monkey fist knot on the end of the 10mm kevlar rope. Does anyone know how much space this knot will take up? Cuz I need to know how much to order.

Ive tried to calculate by doing a little one, but it seems like id need about 3m, which cant be right!!!

Thanks!


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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:I made small monkey fist knots (only 2 strands per 'side' of the knot, not 3) and it takes up a little over a metre.

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greenfyregirl
greenfyregirl

journeyman
Location: Cheltenham, England
Member Since: 13th Apr 2002
Total posts: 55
Posted:Thanks Dom

so one small knot takes 1m? or is that enuf for two?


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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:1 knot - thinking about it you also need more than a meter to start the knot with. With a monkey fist you make the shape then tighten it up, so you might use 2 metres to create a knot and then have a tail on it. This is how mine are made.

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.Morph.
.Morph.

addict
Location: Lancashire, UK
Member Since: 23rd Mar 2002
Total posts: 669
Posted:Mine worked out the same of Dom's.
I bought about 6 foot 10mm rope, after I tightened the knot (3 strands) it left me with tails just short of a foot long.
Dobber marbles work a treat to put in the middle!


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greenfyregirl
greenfyregirl

journeyman
Location: Cheltenham, England
Member Since: 13th Apr 2002
Total posts: 55
Posted:Thanks Guys!

Im now gonna try to make a pair of those 'snakes' on the bearclaw website!


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firecat
member
Location: Houston, Texas, USA
Member Since: 27th Dec 2001
Total posts: 7
Posted:just made a set of meteors with monkey fist knots on the ends out of a continuous 20' of 1/2" kevlar rope. my problem is that they seem WAY too light. finished length is about 8' and I feel like there's not enough weight to the knots on the ends.

as far as the question of how much rope it takes - with the 1/2" rope I used about 6' for EACH knot - 3-strand ea. way size. and about a foot extra on each end makes it pretty easy to tie & then tighten.

I'm going to try to weight them down with & see if that makes em easier to handle. maybe it's just the extra length that I'm not used to...


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Maximus
member
Location: Upland, CA., USA
Member Since: 13th Dec 2001
Total posts: 250
Posted:I've never made one, but a monkey fist knot has a weight inside of it. A stone or I've heard a tire lug works good.
The monkey fist knot was used when a sailor had to throw a rope a long distance--too another ship or to shore.
Also dipping it in fuel will heavy it up quite a bit. That much kevlar should soak up a lot.
Good luck.

Maximus


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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:You can weight a monkey-fist knot with something in the middle, but make it something soft, for goodness' sake!

The best thing would be to use something that would absorb fuel--more wicking, or perhaps a wad of cotton wool (which wouldn't add any appreciable weight dry, but would soak up a lot of fuel).


Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Tedward
Tedward

member
Location: LA,CA, USA, SOL3, Milky Way, A...
Member Since: 9th Dec 2001
Total posts: 30
Posted:The lady that makes the snakes for Bearclaw warns about using metal for the weight. She tried a few but it caused the kevlar in the knot to wear out really fast.

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Pinkadelic
Pinkadelic

member
Location: On top of a Nipple
Member Since: 21st Dec 2006
Total posts: 70
Posted:hmm i need to use a rope?!
what kind of rope, a kevlar rope?!
where da hell am i supposed to find that?
HELP!


Love is Life

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*HyperLight
*HyperLight

old hand
Location: Great Malvern [UK]
Member Since: 9th Dec 2003
Total posts: 1174
Posted:What about this? smile

Cake or Death?

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Pinkadelic
Pinkadelic

member
Location: On top of a Nipple
Member Since: 21st Dec 2006
Total posts: 70
Posted:Thanks bro wink

Love is Life

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kash
kash

Dangerous cynic

Member Since: 22nd May 2006
Total posts: 166
Posted:Monkey fists don't *need* a weight in them, they are quite heavy enough without (and as a sailor I can assure you they perform their original function just fine without - that's the point, the knot turns any old bit of line into a decent throwing weight). When you use a monkeyfist for toys, be aware that the knot will be heavy and hard! My small practice meteor is made of 5mm rope with 6 turns in the knots, and it has taken chunks out of my shins, really, I've got some lethal heavy poi but nothing comes near the knots!



Give yourself plenty of rope to play with, and perhaps buy yourself some cheap rope to practice with (something nice and smooth that will undo easily rather than fraying your kevlar). A good size knot might only take about a metre or rope when it is properly tightened, but you won't get it tight until the knot has been formed, so you do need 50-100% extra to give you room to work, you take up the slack methodically when you are done. As you get better you can work with less slack rope, but you do still need space to thread the rope through. Incidentally, tying it as tight as you can as you form the knot will make it neater as well, as long as you know what you are doing.



One other quick tip, many instructons, including the link above show you how to form the knot around your four fingers, forming the first set of loops, then passing the rope between your middle and ring finger. Trouble is, you run out of space for the rope, so you either have to stack the rope for the second set of loops, making it harder to get a neat row of loops, or remove it from your hand inevitably losing the whole thing! I recommend folding back your middle two fingers (like a rock hands gesture) or for a small knot, just use the index and ring fingers with the middle folded back. You can actually loosely tie the whole knot pretty neatly like this, or, once you get good at it, remove it from your hand as you begin the third set of loops.



Oh, and noone linked to this yet: http://www.homeofpoi.com/articles/monkey_fist.php


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kash
kash

Dangerous cynic

Member Since: 22nd May 2006
Total posts: 166
Posted: Written by: adamrice


The best thing would be to use something that would absorb fuel--more wicking, or perhaps a wad of cotton wool (which wouldn't add any appreciable weight dry, but would soak up a lot of fuel).



If you want anything cotton wool-like in your fire toys, I would suggest using rock wool, as cotton wool will burn up. But you really don't need anything inside your knots.


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BlizzardMan
newbie

Member Since: 26th Apr 2007
Total posts: 1
Posted:What is done with the extra rope after the knot is tied? All the monkey fist poi I see online don't have the end pieces sticking out but all the directions show the end pices magically disappearing. I don't get it!

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marcbs
marcbs

member
Location: MN
Member Since: 8th Jun 2008
Total posts: 28
Posted:The two ends of the cord used to make the knot are cut flush with the knot and secured to the core.

I would suggest a small stitch or five to secure it and then some white glue. probably you can do either or both and it will hold ok.


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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:I would be unsure as to whether glue alone would hold it as they do get bashed around a lot as fire heads, but decent sewing will.

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babyrn00
newbie

Member Since: 29th Jul 2008
Total posts: 1
Posted:I know how to make a monkey fist ball, but I want to finish it off so I just have the ball without the ropes coming out. I'm having a tough time finding a site that shows me how to do that. If anyone can help, it would be much appreciated!

Thanks!


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georgemc
georgemc

Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch
Member Since: 16th Oct 2006
Total posts: 2387
Posted:To finish the knot off you pull the rope as tight as you can and then cut off the excess rope flush with the surface of the knot. If you've pulled it tight enough the end will tend to pop back into the guts of the knot and be hidden, and if you didn't have it tight enough then you can push it back into the knot. THen you can seal the end of the cut rope with a dollop of glue.

Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread

I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
grin

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Rellizate
Rellizate

old hand
Location: Cambridge, UK
Member Since: 10th Feb 2007
Total posts: 719
Posted:I sew the end to the knot to hold it tighter. Although George's way does work I don't like to rest the fate of a burning fireball staying on or off your chains on the tightness of your knot.

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