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FoxFire


member
Location: Texas, USA

Total posts: 90
Posted:I have a few questions that I haven't been able to find answers to. They may seem trivial, but I'd really like to find out.Is there any difference in using, say, the blue-coloured ultra-pure lamp oil vs. clear (or even mixing them)?From what I've read about white spirit fuels, does Mineral Spirits burn the same/different as, say, Coleman fuel?Has anyone tried using something like isopropal or denatured alcohol for a fuel? I read somewhere that they could be used; although, they wouldn't give off much of a flame.The reason I ask is that a department store here is going out of business and having a sale. Having spent many days, now, reading up on fuels and fire safety, I'd really like to get things right since I am just beginning into using fire.(note to self: look at fire extenguishers when I go back to buy fuel.)------------------Deuteronomy 31:6John 15:9

Deuteronomy 31:6
John 15:9
Luke 6:22

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Peregrine


member
Location: Mystic, Ct. USA

Total posts: 428
Posted:the colored lamp oil is basically the same as clear lamp oil for spinning, however it will stain clothes etc. and not wash out very well, whereas clear will. you will then find out just how much residual fuel you do spin off when you find yourself covered in little red/blue stains. theyre the same, there would be no point to mixing them except to get less blue and possibly slightly less smoke from the more pure kind.you could use alcohol but the fire would be wimpy. dont know about mineral spirit (US) ie. paint-thinner which may or may not be equivalent to naptha/coleman fuel...see the hop thing on fuels for info about paint thinner...I probably wouldn't use it. MSDS for mineral spirits:http://www.astrochemicals.com/10238.htmPere

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Paint thinner, white spirits, when burned are notorious for putting off noxious fumes, and so shouldn't be used.If you are using the fuels for spinning, alcohol burns really hot, burns down very quickly (and the faster you spin, the faster it goes out). The flame is this light bluish yellow and so can not be seen unless in complete darkness. IMHO it is not really worth it.As far as for spinning, any form of lamp oil will do. I will say that I haven't had a problem with the dye staining my clothes though, and when I recently used blue fuel at an indoor show the spatter washed up off the white window trim very easily as well as from my clothes and skin. For general knowledge though, that was Lamplight Farms. The permanance of dye could change with different colors (I could see red staining much more than say green) and different brands.Best of luck in your purchases!Oh, and quick reminder on fire extinguishers...you will want a Dry Chemical Fire Extinguisher Classification 1-A:10-B:C.As long as you are there you might want to check on the package fire blankets too! ------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 21 January 2002).]

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:What Pele said (she always gets here before me
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)------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 21 January 2002).]


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* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Oh speaking of fuels, a while back Pele, you said that Zippo fuel was naptha and the equivilant of whitegas... that can't be true. Maybe I misread your quote but it certainly didn't trail as well.I agree with alcohols being not so cool... Stick with lamp oil. It's a good first (and last in my case) fuel. I really think it's the "safest" and use it exclusively for poi. Especially here in the US where it is cheap.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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4d1c3


member
Location: nsw australia

Total posts: 61
Posted:hey i use kerosene for my pois it works good i havent tried many other fuels buti like kero out of curosity how long do those fuels work for thats my opinion

the risk is the rush

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rex


rex

member
Location: Holiday, FL, USA

Total posts: 263
Posted:dicy...how many different threads must you post this question under?i'm starting to feel very silly repeating the same thing PWB has told you.and told you.and told you.just do a search.. get the answer you want, when you want it!

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I am Schwabe


member
Location: GB Wisconsin usa

Total posts: 25
Posted:what type of store sells lamp oil in the US, unnder what names? craft shops like hobby lobby or...?

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FoxFire


member
Location: Texas, USA

Total posts: 90
Posted:Wal-Mart does. Here they sell the "Ultra Pure" lamp oil (clear) from Lamplight Farms. That's what I've been using.On a side note, it seems as though that discount store that is going out of business (that I mentioned above), their prices are higher than Wal-Mart's, even with the going-out-of-business discount! And they wonder why they're closing doors?
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Deuteronomy 31:6
John 15:9
Luke 6:22

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firestorm


member
Location: Redding, CA, USA

Total posts: 28
Posted:Four out of Five firdancers prefer white gas to lamp oil or karo. Mainly because it doesn't smell so bad, less smoke and soot. Pluss you get bigger brighter flame thats easy to light, and its a bit cheeper than Karo or lamp oil. (if you know where to look). The only catch is white gas is much more volitol than the other fuels, and its burns hotter, so you are more likely to get burned if you screw up. IMHO any fuel should be treated with utmost caution regardless of its volitity.

^_-

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Naaa.. I totally disagree.Most of the spinners I spin with spin Kero or lampoil. Whitegas is too dangerous (once you get over the cool tricks you can do on concrete with it) and burns too quick.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I agree with NYC onthe White Gas/ Lamp Oil thing.If you read the composition of Zippo, Ronsonol(sp??) and Coleman, they are essentially the same thing. Coleman has a bit more too it but the others work well with more patience and longer soak time. I don't like Ronsonol...too much money for what I need. White gas is just more efficient. I seem to recall Ignis Devoco stating that they use Naphtha though.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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SickpuPpy


SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.

Total posts: 1100
Posted:Wow! Am I reading this right? NYC talking up the virtues of Kero?I never thought I'd see the day.On the subject of mineral spirits. Do not try spinning with them. It's not worth it. In my job I use about ten diffirent types of chemichal solvents including three diffirent types of mineral spirits, as well as trichloride, Safty Kleen and others. Mineral spirits produce noxious and out and out toxic fumes when burned, as previously mentioned. Kero and white gas manufacturers, no doubt, have a spicific system for testing and quality control for their fuels, because they are designed to be used as such. Mineral spirits are a solvent, and while they are flammable they are not designed to be burned, and as such, can be very unpredictable and dangerous. ----->Never set fire to anything containing trichloride either<------ That is a good way to getyour fool ass blowed up. And on top of that when burned the molicules combine with hydrogen creating hydrochloric acid, so it's not a good idea to smoke around the stuff either.If any one is interested I can easily get my hands on the MSDS for a varity of common flammable chemicals and solvents and I would be happy to post them if they are wanted.------------------If you love something, set it on fire.

Jesus helps me trick people.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Kero sucks. Lampoil4life.
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I guess it's my second choice fuel. The more I work with whitegas, the more it makes me uneasy. EVERY friggin time something goes a little bit wrong it seems to be due to whitegas. Unfortunately, it's needed for some tricks such as trailing and painting.I swear that one of these days I'm gonna get burned from someone else's whitegas spill.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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jonathan


enthusiast
Location: new zealand

Total posts: 210
Posted:yep white gas is freaky shit......first time i used it i was suddenly aware of knee hi sheets of flame following me round the concrete.........and check out the explosion when ya light hot poi.... ever heard a 120 kg 6 foot 7 inch half tongan truckie scream like a 12 yr old girl? he he heless smoke tho, but i think its good stuff! certainly keeps me on my toes!!

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Firestorm - I'm not aware of any legitimate surveys on firetwirlers anywhere in the world."four out of five firetwirlers prefer white gas"
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Does this mean you know about twenty twirlers and four of them don't like white gas, or has there been an actual poll somewhere...I'd have to say there seems to be more white gas use in the states than in the rest of the world, but this is just based on the travellers I meet here in New Zealand, which may not represent those in the states who stay put...Not trying to be mean, just curious...?------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz


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* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:I guess I'm that one out of five...as are a lot of my fire-friends. I prefer lamp oil for the duration.If I've got a paid gig, I'll bring a smidgen of white gas, and dip an edge in that after spinoff to aid lightup, but other than that, I don't bother with it. Then again, there are ways to milk a little drama out of a slow lightup.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Plasmator


member
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 4
Posted:I've actually seen some people burn mineral spirits, indoors, at a club. The smell wasn't bad, the burn was bright and long, and I was pretty impressed with the stuff.Thanks for all the info, I'll be very careful, since the stuff sounds pretty volatile, but I'm going to try a burn with it tomorrow night. I'll let you all know how it goes.

Whenever cannibals are on the brink of starvation,
Heaven in its infinite mercy sends them a nice plump missionary.
- Oscar Wilde

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phuzzz


member
Location: saltspring island, bc , kanada

Total posts: 160
Posted:ive recently been using 3/4 white gas 1/4 lamp oil and its beeen working great. i save just a little oil for breathing and just a little white gass for trailing. i find kero/lampoil straight up eat my kevlar wicks up really quick. have a seprate staff for colours.(alcohol based.)

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Fire By Riz tm


member
Location: tampa fl usa

Total posts: 212
Posted:<< white gas mixed with vasaline all the way for indoors and just about everything i do is inside..i tired lamp oil once it was nice after it lit ;; but the clean up ,, floor ,roof , walls sucked..i just couldnt get the spin off good enough with out flinging the oil all over the place..stuff was still coming off after it was burning.. this may be off topic but i have never seen anyone else perform indoors what do you spin off into ??? i have been using three large beach towels kind of grab near the wick and do light spins then pat down the wick some then do another light spin off this seems to work well with the colman but sucks for lamp oil. Riz------------------I have been cursed with the imagination to envision it all

I have been cursed with the imagination to envision it all

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M@TT


member
Location: Pensacola, FL, USA

Total posts: 34
Posted:Riz, the last indoor show I did they let me do trails on stage. Other than that, I've always had to step out a back door, do a quick spin off, and come back to burn. I can't think of any way to get a good enough spin off indoors.------------------ -M@TTKeep the fire burning.

-M@TTKeep the fire burning.

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Maelstrom


Maelstrom

member
Location: Akron, Ohio

Total posts: 135
Posted:Riz: Could you please elaborate on the white gas and vasaline. On one hand it sounds like something that could work, and on the other it sounds like napalm. I don't mind alittle white gas transfuring onto my skin and burning off (the occational bump can do this). However having hot, burning petrolium jelly tranfuring on to me just sounds kinky, might even leave a nice scar, and catch my clothing on fire. Please help me understand.------------------Nothing good ever comes from hanging out with "normal" people.

Nothing good ever comes from hanging out with normal people.

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Ajay


member
Location: Oxford, U.K.

Total posts: 158
Posted:Has anyone ever done/used anything instead of spinning off.how about somthing like you find on mop buckets to get rid of exces fuel?

One fine day in the middle of the night,
Two dead men got up to fight,
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew there swords and Shot each other.

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theblackunicorn


member
Location: fort worth, TX, USA

Total posts: 119
Posted:i find that i myself( or any1 in my troupe) dont have any real problem using white gas as a fuel for poi,staff,clubs or anything for that matter. that is what we use all the time as our main fuel, but then again we are all trained in the handling and putting out of gas fires as vital knowledge for shows.the lamplight farms 99% pure lamp oil is what we use to blow fire with. the only problem with that is we have to have a special barrier cream so that we dont get a chemical burn from it.the denatured alcohol is what we use when we do our mixes for colored fire during shows. the downfall to that is it takes forever to light and has a weak ass flame.straight gasoline is what we use for eating torches cept it smokes a little too muchkero is never used for the fact that it reeks and smokes badly.i really had no idea that what we use to blow fire is what some of you use to soak ur tools in....learn something new everyday huh?but just for the sake of trying to get the best flames....what kind of effect does lamp oil produce when used for fire tools like poi?jokker------------------'' not all who wander are lost'' J.R.R. Tolkien'' its better to burn out...then to fade away'' Def Leppard

its to dying in anothers arms and why i had to try it......

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SickpuPpy


SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.

Total posts: 1100
Posted:Ajay,When ever I've performed indoors I soaked my wicks way ahead of time and let them drip off the exess fuel, and that seems to work well. I've also wiped the exess off with a dry towel in times that I was going to be trading off turns with someone and there wasn't time to let them drip and that worked well too, but you have to take precautions with the towel afterwards so that you don't have to stop your performace to put out some unintentional fires.------------------If you love something, set it on fire.

Jesus helps me trick people.

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Fire By Riz tm


member
Location: tampa fl usa

Total posts: 212
Posted:Maelstrom... well i am kinky but that has noithing to do with the fuel mix :: laughs ::: i was thinking the same as you when i 1st read about the mix sounded like napalm to me .. what you do is drop a jar of vasiline into a gallon of white gas the night before you plan on using it it will disolve into the fuel what it does is slow down the evaporation rate and makes it burn slower so you get the nice flame with more time.. as far as leaving burns you get no more burn that hitting yourself with a wick using reg whitegas,, i do fetish shows so we do alot of fire body contact.. and i havent left a burn yet other than the time i was using two fire whips lost my count and tied my arms toghter with them it was ugly ..even then i only got all my forearm hair burned off give the mix a try i think if your a white gas person you will like the results------------------I have been cursed with the imagination to envision it all

I have been cursed with the imagination to envision it all

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:BlackUnicorn - Are your sure you want to use gXXXXine to fire-eat with? It is possibly one of the most toxic fuels you could use while it is burning, releasing all sorts of nasties including CO (carbon monoxide). White gas or lighter fluid would be a safer long-term alternative in my opinion.Ask your local supplier for a MSDS sheet on it and look for information on what it releases when burning. If you compare that to the MSDS of White Gas, kero, lighter fluid etc you may get a nasty shock...The other point, is I wouldn't want any containers of that substance around me or near any other firies, I've seen to many explosions and shrapnel during my life with that particular fuel.... Just my two cents...PS NYC has a great system for spinning off b4 inside performances.------------------Charles (AKA INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggle.co.nz/fire/fire.html

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* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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theblackunicorn


member
Location: fort worth, TX, USA

Total posts: 119
Posted:charles,thanks for the concern. i myself dont eat fire(yet anyway) but three of four of my co-workers do. i always figured that there would be something a little safer that could be used to eat with, but i figured '' they have been doing this longer than i have'' ya know? all i know is that is what they use at the moment. would paraffin work as an alternative? i'll bring it up next time our troupe meets....jokker------------------'' not all who wander are lost'' J.R.R. Tolkien'' its better to burn out...then to fade away'' Def Leppard

its to dying in anothers arms and why i had to try it......

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:That would be wise, Pele will know what to suggest as an alternative, but frankly, I think anything would be better than the stuff they are currently using.If they don't listen and continue to use it then it's on their heads in the twenty odd year sor so when the problems arise.All we can do is make sure people are as well infomred as possible and then leave the decision to them.Thanks for your understanding...------------------Charles (AKA INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggle.co.nz/fire/fire.html

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
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dulce flames


member
Location: Oceanside, California USA

Total posts: 234
Posted:Hello.. I finally registered.. and I finally completed my set of fire chains... Now it's time to use them... I have been practicing poi for a long time now, but I'm ready to light up and live a little more... So, from reading everyone's comments, I am planning on starting out with some lamp oil... the Lamplight Farms was suggested.. I'm curious as to how long it does take to light up.. Can you light up from a candle? Any comments would be greatly appreciated.. I'm hoping to practice tomorrow and light up at a dessert party this saturday... Your past comments have been really helpful. thanx.. dulce

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dulce flames


member
Location: Oceanside, California USA

Total posts: 234
Posted:I guess I should say desert party not dessert party.... anyway, would you recommend soaking the kevlar in the lamp oil teh night before? I've done some searches and am trying to gather all the info that I can... thanx

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