Forums > Technical Discussion > refulable staff???

Posted: 12th Dec 2001
Don't make it out of aluminum. Aluminum is an excellent thermal conductor, ie, it gets hot.Report back to us on how it works--it's an interesting idea.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Posted: 12th Dec 2001
It's pretty unlikely, especially if there isn't a lot of available oxygen but be very careful about heating up (i.e expanding) fuel in an enclosed space.It doesn't take much heat to spread through all of the liquid and there is a chance of your staff turning into a bomb.As to the actual likelyhood with your design I'm not sure, but please keep this in mind. Chances are a resulting injury could prevent you from doing staff for a while (and we all know how frustrating that can be...)Otherwise, good on yer, I've been thinking about something like that for ages now, but haven't got off my butt to actually do anything.I'd love to hear how it turns out (safely too).------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttps://juggling.co.nz

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Posted: 13th Dec 2001
Wouldn't that get a bit heavy with all the fuel soaked rope inside the staff?

Posted: 13th Dec 2001
The fiberglass won't hold the fuel well, so the first time you spin it, you'l get really big flame for about 10 seconds, then nothing.I've made something like this before, it was really hard to light, but once it got going, it burnt for about 1/2 hour on white gas.And easy way to replicate would be to drill a few holes around the top and fill it with Kevlar rope. Cap the ends for safety (or at least put some bolts through it) and pour down or soak long.

Posted: 14th Dec 2001
I can't believe Cantus has nothing to say about this.How odd.

Jesus helps me trick people.

Posted: 14th Dec 2001
wait. im sure.

Posted: 14th Dec 2001
well this is whaat i have made. 4 feet of aluminum pipe ( im just using aluminum for my prototype and adding LOTS of grip ti protect my hands.?} filled with7 feet fiberglass rope jammed in snuggly so only about six inches o wick protrudes from each side. on the ends of the pipe i have affixed washers with wire ect, through wich the wick passes before protruding. so that... flame cannot enter the pipe sort of the same idea as an oil lamp. then i have a hole drilled in the exact canter of the stafF plugged with a small adjustable valve. through which i can refule and air can pass. the theory is:whilst spinning this contraption, by the power of centrifical (sp?) force the gas will be drawn toward the wick and away from center. thus creating a vacume into the cente hole. when this hole is pluggged, the vacume stops and the fire dims and goes ot. thus making the size of the flame controlable. i do not believe it will blow up because heated and expanding fuel will force it'self towards the flame.(agood thing.)noooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww.......... what if you put mixes of colored fuel inside would the colors change mid spin?????wish me luck.'

Posted: 15th Dec 2001
I think this'll work, but perhaps not the way you expect.I doubt the flame would work its way up the inside of the shaft under any circumstances. I also doubt that you can control the flow of fuel through the air-hole: you probably don't have a vacuum inside the shaft, and at any rate, I think the fuel is transported by capillary action.Also--colored fuel probably won't come out in stages: the colorants will contaminate the wicking, and any fuel that comes after the colored fuel will get colored.Fueling this thing is going to be slooooooow.Let us know how it works. I'm really curious.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Posted: 17th Dec 2001
WOOHOO!that was awsome! i ended up capping the ends and drilling lots of holes as suggested, but then wrapped a couple layers of kevlar over the holes. took my sweet time to fuel up. closed the valve and literup! started to spinand flame started to go out. opened valve a little bit. big flames. opened valve a bit more and then big fire balls! closed valves a bit. i used kerosene as that is what im used to. did three burns last night. first i liked big fire and fire balls. lasted 15 mins. second i kept the flame really small and lasted 57minutes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!third i did a bit of both and put on an amazing show. 26 mins. if you havent read obout th 40minute burn on a normal staff . oh well do a search. im gunna try to get a super long burn by encorporating these ideas.now...refulable poi???using the cord thats onpayphones???

Posted: 17th Dec 2001
Fascinating. Good work phuzz, pushing back the envelope of fire-performing technology. Wish I could get a gander at your handiwork.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Posted: 18th Dec 2001
A quick question - where did you find the aluminum pipe? I'm looking to get some too.

Posted: 18th Dec 2001
please please please post any sketches or pics you have!!Ive been thinking about making this kind of thing for a while only without the internal wicking, just a fuel tank inside the staff with small holes under the inside edge of the wick.If you could do it with a 3 piece staff you could simply unscrew it and pour the fuel in.I recomend anyone trying this uses kero or other high flash point fuels as meths may turn your staff into a 5 foot pipe bomb!------------------The Sand...The Surf... The Flame.

The Sand...The Surf... The Flame.

Posted: 17th Dec 2001
Ack! Belgarath, there are so many ways that could go wrong:1. Even with a high-flashpoint fuel, you might wind up with a bomb2. Keeping the thing watertight would be all but impossible. Especially if you used a 3-piece. Fuel will dissolve a lot of gaskets.3. Imagine the fuel sloshing around inside. Slosh, slosh. Imagine how hard the staff would be to control.This is just what comes to me off the top of my head.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Posted: 17th Dec 2001
Would biodiesal slosh, would it even burn in a larger quantity?

Posted: 17th Dec 2001
Well its not an easy thing to make im sure!But I still want one!Using kero or lamp oil should be safe enoughjust like twirling a tiki torch and they burn for hours, so pipe bombs should be avoidable.That internal wick should solve the problem with the fuel sloshing around inside the staff.As for a 3 piece staff a small bung in the tube should prevent any fuel reaching the joints and again the internal wick will do the same.Im writeing up plans as we speak!(slow day at work)------------------The Sand...The Surf... The Flame.

The Sand...The Surf... The Flame.

Posted: 17th Dec 2001
how the heck do you post a pic from your comp???

Posted: 17th Dec 2001
good question...if anyone knows tell me to my plans are starting to come together!------------------The Sand...The Surf... The Flame.

The Sand...The Surf... The Flame.

Posted: 17th Dec 2001
Belgarath--I assumed you were talking about making it without the internal wicking, just the fuel. With the wicking, it apparently does work, and intuitively seems a lot safer.Phuzz--If you go to geocities.com (among many, many options), you can set up a little web page, upload the pics to that, and give the URL here. If you don't want to bother with that, e-mail the pics to me and I'll post them on my server.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Posted: 17th Dec 2001
my original idea didnt include internal wicking and i hit a dead end with the problems you mentioned. But with Phuzz's internal wick idea my plans are once again in motion!Thanks Phuzz------------------The Sand...The Surf... The Flame.

The Sand...The Surf... The Flame.

Posted: 18th Dec 2001
-OR-you could go to :https://communities.msn.com/PoiStaffandallthingsfireyall you need is an msn account or passport thingy and you can join and then you can put your photos up there durbs

One fine day in the middle of the night,
Two dead men got up to fight,
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew there swords and Shot each other.

Posted: 18th Dec 2001
Some of us refuse absolutely to get a passport account.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Posted: 18th Dec 2001
Why is that adamrice?------------------The Sand...The Surf... The Flame.

The Sand...The Surf... The Flame.

Posted: 18th Dec 2001
Microsoft operates passport as a sort of online identity card system. I don't trust MS with this kind of information for 2 reasons:1. I believe they will willingly sell information about me (despite any disclaimers to the contrary), leading to even more spam.2. I believe they will accidentally leave my private information exposed to hackers, or otherwise fail to operate the system securely.If you look at the history of trouble there's been with Hotmail (which they own)--things like passwords available to hackers through simple Javascript tricks, spam arriving in your Hotmail box within 24 hours of setting up an account, etc, you should take pause at giving Them more access to info about you. Plus the idea of taking part in a convicted monopolist's scheme to make the Internet proprietary creeps me out big-time. I own MS Office (yeah, I know, I'm already supporting the monopolist--life is filled with compromises), but I refuse to register it because MS doesn't let me register it without a Passport account.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Posted: 19th Dec 2001
hey there, i have often though of a refueling fire toy.. i recall an earlier post a looooonnnng assed time ago a girlie though making "bubble" poi would be cool the contraption i thought would work for that also might work for this idea..you know those toy cups and bottles for little kids that when you tip them up side down the juice disappears? or how you have end up with about a liter of stank nasty water in the plunger from you bathroom? (am i being insane?? ) but creatve something similar to these thing only with fuel??its just an idea i never said it would work

Teach tolerance, not competition.
Send food, not bombs.

Posted: 19th Dec 2001
my registration form as with ,ost online things i fill in normaly go somthing like this.msn passport ragistration formname: elvispostcode/zip: nophone number: doubt itadress:hmm lets see, um nodate of birth: 8/1/1910etc.get the idea

One fine day in the middle of the night,
Two dead men got up to fight,
Back to back they faced each other,
Drew there swords and Shot each other.

Posted: 20th Dec 2001
Ok my plans are up on "https://communities.ninemsn.com.au/PoiStaffandallthingsfirey/pictures"Phuzzz you can put your pics up here to.Any ideas or improvements would be greatly apreciated.------------------The Sand...The Surf... The Flame.

The Sand...The Surf... The Flame.