• You must now select Courier Delivery if you wish to receive items before Christmas.
 
Page: 12
Frenzie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 515
Posted:Does anyone have a problem with ball chain getting rusty?We have never had any problem with chain, or cable and ive left mine in some of the most undesirable places for metal and never had a problem, but the ball chain seems to start to rust even after only being used once and kept along side a set of chains!?

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

Delete Topic

adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:This is surprising. I wonder what kind of ball chain you are getting there. I've used two kinds here--steel with nickel plating, and stainless steel. The former seem to hold up fine (some discoloration around the seam on each ball, perhaps, but no obvious rust); the latter I haven't used as much, but should also hold up fine.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Delete

Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 1023
Posted:Ours is the Nickel plated (NPS) steel ball chain from www.ballchain.com we have not had a problem with the ones we use personally. Are you sure it is rust? and not something else. Try rubbing to see if it comes off.Cables are usually Stainless Steel of some grade. There are many grades of stainless steel. Some are soft and contain other metals blended within them to alter their characteristics. Some stainless steel can stick to a magnet and others do not. Stainless steel should not rust.Chain too come in grades of stainless steel. NP steel and galvanised steel (galvanised coating comes of easy with little heat)NP is electroplated onto steel. NP will start to come off if the metal gets red hot. Where the metal glows red. White hot metal the NP blisters and falls away from metal.When swinging the components may well get hot but should not be getting anywhere hot enough to cause the NP to come off. Hope that helps.

May your balls always burn

Delete

Cantus
SILVER Member since Jul 2001

Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom

Total posts: 15965
Posted:How odd. It shouldn't rust so easily. Are you storing it some place damp? You can't catch rust. It's a low tempreture oxidation of iron and steel in the presence of water. So storing next to some chains isn't enough.Are you sure it isn't simply discolouring?Take the "rust" off with some wirewool.

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

Delete

pozee
BRONZE Member since Jul 2001

old hand
Location: san diego, USA

Total posts: 886
Posted:that is definately strange. i live on the beach and my old linked chain rusted within a matter of days, where as my ball chain is holding up perfect. a little lubricant such as wd-40 may help out...

anyone got a light?

Delete

blue_flame
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

member
Location: Amherst, Massachusetts, USA

Total posts: 33
Posted:On the topic of ball chains...I was curious of how well ball chain poi work for wraps. I have only used cable and it works fine but I wan't to make a pair and it seems easier to find ball chain (hint: HOP shop
Non-Https Image Link
). Anyways, how do they work for wraps, and is there a difference in wrap performance for the # ball chain? Thanks in advance to anyone that can help!Chris


Defy Gravity!

Delete

pozee
BRONZE Member since Jul 2001

old hand
Location: san diego, USA

Total posts: 886
Posted:i love doing wraps, my ball chain works wonderful for it. i usually do wraps really hard and really fast. you should definately purchase it. i have had no problems with it.

anyone got a light?

Delete

adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:I don't use wraps that extensively, but yeah, ball-chain works quite nicely for it. Better than cable, I'd say. If wrap-performance is a priority, I'd go with a smaller size. I've used #13 and #15--the #13 is noticeably smaller, and wraps around a tighter radius than the #15 (good for wrist wraps, etc)--it has more of a "loose piece of string" feeling to it. I also think ball-chain digs less than cable.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Delete

Bendy


member
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

Total posts: 750
Posted:Aha! - but you are wrong Cantus... You can catch rust (and I am not talking aout the disease plants get). There are some bacteria that oxidize iron, turning it into rust. However, I don't think it would be this. If the ball chain is stainless steel, could it be that they are tarnished?The wirewool should work if it is tarnish - I used it on an old harmonica that I found the other day... but that is another story
Non-Https Image Link
------------------Courage is the man who can stop after just one peanut


Courage is the man who can stop after only one peanut

Delete

Cantus
SILVER Member since Jul 2001

Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom

Total posts: 15965
Posted:Really? I looked it up in a book. So the book must be wrong.Maybe all books are wrong.
Non-Https Image Link
Say it isn't so....After all the upset i had with the TV lying to me.....


"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

Delete

Bendy


member
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia

Total posts: 750
Posted:I hate to burst your bubble Cantus, but believe it or not, not everything you read on the internet is true either! (the bit that I wrote is tho - you have to take my word (?!) for that
Non-Https Image Link
)


Courage is the man who can stop after only one peanut

Delete

NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Large gauge ball chain is best for wraps. I resisted for a while but am now a loyal ball chainer.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

Frenzie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 515
Posted:The poi are the ones that adamrice has sent around for the relay. They have been used once for fire and have since been stored (wicks in a plastic bag) in Finn's laundry along with the rest of her fire gear.Nothing unusual, perhaps it was lighting up at the beach? salty air maybe?But just strange that none of the otehr poi were effected at all.

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

Delete

Cantus
SILVER Member since Jul 2001

Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom

Total posts: 15965
Posted:Aliens.If anything strange and unusual happens round here there's usually aliens at the root of it.So blame them first before you start looking for logical explainations.

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

Delete

adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:How weird. I wonder if the rust will just come off with a scouring pad, and if so, what condition the surface underneath is in.If you want, I'll send replacement chains--this time I'll send stainless-steel ones.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Delete

SickpuPpy


SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.

Total posts: 1100
Posted:Your ball chain rusting is probobly just due to the type of metal. It was probobly made of steel/lead alloy or just regular steel, and then was painted or plated with something that burned off as soon as you lit your wicks. If your chains get tangled or you hit them on some thing this can loosen or knock off any paint or plating letting water get underneith into the metal. Becareful with WD-40, I think it's flamable, but as I don't usually use the stuff I dont know, try keeping them oiled, motor oil will probobly work, but wipe them down really well before lighting your wicks, motor oil will burn too but not very easily,but Probobly the easy answer is to just buy better chains.

Jesus helps me trick people.

Delete

Shouden-CrD
SILVER Member since Apr 2001

Veteran Member
Location: Tampa, FL, USA

Total posts: 495
Posted:blue_flame,I ordered ballchain with my first set of fire poi...I have tried cable as well as made my own home-made regular chains. Out of all of them, the ballchain feels the most fluid. In addition to that, wraps generally dont hurt(unless my quicklink and the loop at the top of the wick pinches my skin). I'd have to say ballchain is the best, and out of everyone that I have let try my ballchain, it seems most like it better than the other alternatives. I'd say buy a set and try em!Cantus, Ya, aliens are usually the source of problems around here too. Especially computer-related problems..damn UFOs flying over..

-=razyRaverude=-

Delete

Cantus
SILVER Member since Jul 2001

Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road, United Kingdom

Total posts: 15965
Posted:I was going to share a tale of alien activity but I fear the delectable Flash fire will slap my wrists for drifting off topic so i shall abstain.Er yeah, ball chain. I've had this kind of meteor thing I made out of ball chain a while back and kind of forgot about until this post came up. It's been lying around in a dank musty shed type thing for god knows how long and has suffered no adverse effects whatsoever - Aside from the obligatory cobwebs which are part and parcel with whole shed experience.

"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

Delete

blue_flame
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

member
Location: Amherst, Massachusetts, USA

Total posts: 33
Posted:Thanks for helping me out everyone I will definetely try it out...It seems the only problem I may have now is with the aliens stealing my amazing ball-chain poi! Arrrrr, I'll scare em away with my scary growls!
Non-Https Image Link
Chris


Defy Gravity!

Delete

Tedward


Tedward

member
Location: LA,CA, USA, SOL3, Milky Way, A...

Total posts: 30
Posted:If you scrape off the nickle plating, or get the colored versions where the plating can be burnt off, yes, they can rust. The stainless steel does not rust, works better than the candy chain, and polishes back up after they blacken.Another thing to think about is Safe Working Load. Based on the physics of what we do, your poi could require a SWL of up to about 100lbs. If you're using the candy chain, you only see that rating in the very large sizes (#30 or above). You can get the same load in stainless at a #10. Both sizes are adequate for wrapping, but the smaller chain size provides less wind resistance which decreases your stall potential at slow speeds.

Delete

Code128


member
Location: Boston, MA USA

Total posts: 69
Posted:Yeah I actually just pulled my POI out of my truck, I keep them in the Tool Box in the bed along with all of my tools. They too had some rust on the balls and the little link pieces between the balls. So Adam if your sending out replacements could you hit me as well?I also have some older chains that I keep in there and they have not shown any rust, although they have discolored a little. Code128Joshua Bloom

------------------
A.N.T.H.E.L.I.O.N

Delete

adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:Tedward: what do you mean by "candy chain"--the anodized aluminum stuff? I agree, that's pretty much unusable for firespinning (I've seen it fall apart just spinning with glowsticks). But #15 nickel-plated steel is rated to 120 lb.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Delete

Frenzie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 515
Posted:adamrice: the rust is not too severe, just a bit here and there so i dont think replacement chains are in order. Was just curious as whether this was a common thing. Hopefully the equipment will be passed on this week, getting hard to coordinate everyone in the same place at the same time!

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

Delete

Shouden-CrD
SILVER Member since Apr 2001

Veteran Member
Location: Tampa, FL, USA

Total posts: 495
Posted:Last night, one of my straps completely un-sewed itself in the middle of my performance at Club 1509. I always inspect my gear before I light up and there was no signs of wear. Which lead me to a more thorough inspection of my poi..while looking at my ballchain I noticed some of the holes on the individual balls are showing signs of wear. I'm wondering of all the other people who use ball-chain has anyone ever had a breakage of the ballchain itself? Or has anyone noticed signs of wear? In addition to this, the bronze clamps on the ends of my ballchain that allow me to connect my quicklinks are bending at the sides. I fear eventually they may break from stress. I guess basically my question is of those who use ballchain, where is the stress most noticed, and if anyone has experienced breakage, where was it? thanksPLURRCRD

-=razyRaverude=-

Delete

adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:CRD--My own chains show some of what you are describing, I think. Some of the individual balls near the hot end have separated slightly at the seam--not quite enough for me to stick a fingernail in, but enough to be visible. The brass connectors are definitely battered-looking (the bending you see is probably partly due to the original crimping and partly to subsequent tangles and the like), but don't seem in danger of breaking. I've been using my ball-chains for about 10 months, and I can imagine that I'll need to replace them at some point, but for now, they seem to be holding up.If you are seeing little lines radiating away from the holes, I don't think that's caused by wear, exactly--those are an artifact of the manufacturing process (since each ball starts out flat), and are becoming more visible as the plating wears down, though stress may also be making them more visible. But you can see these lines on new chain as well.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Delete

Shouden-CrD
SILVER Member since Apr 2001

Veteran Member
Location: Tampa, FL, USA

Total posts: 495
Posted:adam,I do see the lines you are speaking of, yeah those are just the manufacturing lines. I was speaking more of the actual holes of the outer ball. I can actually see the inner ball(that is connected to the link between balls) because the hole of the outer ball has worn through enough. As you, I noticed those mostly near the wick end of my chains. I guess this basically means that I should be switching ends every now and then to even out the wear. I may have to look into getting stainless steel end connectors, I guess I'll just have to keep an eye on how bent they are. I'm not so sure the bending that I see are a result of the crimping onto the chains as they are bent twisted. it looks as if someone while crimping took the end with teh loop with another pair of pliers and twisted the whole connected. The flat sides of it are the part that are bent. On both of my chains..------------------ [PLUR]-=Crazy Raver Dude=-

-=razyRaverude=-

Delete

Tedward


Tedward

member
Location: LA,CA, USA, SOL3, Milky Way, A...

Total posts: 30
Posted:Okay, wear and tear is another reason for going stainless, it's all I use for these. And the A connectors are a serious weak point in the non-ss types.Adam - yes. Candy chain is the anodyzed aluminum type. The real difference in rating is that the NPS is rated in maximum load, and the SS is rated in safe working load. Figure that 1 lb wicks (and chains) spun at 3 rps requires a SWL of 50 lbs (2 rps is 15 lbs). At double the SWL you can do wraps safely. Since SWL is usually about half the maximum load, you're right at the edge of your chain's limits if you're spinning in time to techno and doing wraps with anything but SS. Whenever you reach the limits of your chain's abilities, it takes a bit of damage. Repeat seveal times a show by 4 shows and you could have a problem in as little as a month.Hardcore spinners need welded chain, SS ball chain (and connectors) or welded cable. The only option that doesn't require a separate (and unreliable) spin device is ball chain.

Delete

adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:Tedward--I don't think the rating on the SS ball chain is in fact a safe working load rating--I think it might be a max load. The stuff I've got is rated to 115 lb (whatever that rating is). I hung a bar from some and tried a chin-up, slowly. I weigh 160 lb. When I had most of my weight on the bar, but my feet still on the ground, the chain broke. So I figure the 115-lb rating is probably more like the max. Not completely scientific, I know.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

Delete

toneman


member


Total posts: 195
Posted:not that I know much more than the average guy, but the split in the bead is a sign that the chain will break- usually soon. it seems to me that not much after I notice a decent gap, the link will pull through the bead. attempting to close the gap with pliers doesn't seem to help either. i imagine that it just weakens the sphere from the dent made closing it....

Delete

SickpuPpy


SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.

Total posts: 1100
Posted:I'm not an expert on ball chains spicificly, but as I am a machinist by day I do know a little something about metals.I don't think that ball chains were designed for this kind of use. I have really only seen them used for jewlery, necklaces, ext. I would assume that you all are talking about the fatty ball chains and not the thin ones, but all the ball chains I've had (no poi use) have broken relitively easy.I suppose that it all comes down to a question of quality. As a general rule if you buy something made of steel, if it is painted or plated it's probobly going to rust if the plate or paint comes off. So if you can find one that's not got plating or paint it is probobly stainless steel and you should have no problems with rust. Also if it is magnetic it is probobly stainless too, as magnitization really screws with most plating processes, but this is far less common.I would tend to use that steel cable stuff like you would find locking a bike to a signpost, but the thinner stuff. You'll never break that stuff doing poi.

Jesus helps me trick people.

Delete

Tedward


Tedward

member
Location: LA,CA, USA, SOL3, Milky Way, A...

Total posts: 30
Posted:Puppy. The problem with really thick chain is weight. Undo weight in your chains is the fastest way to shorten the life of your grips. Also, bike cable isn't nearly as flexible as other chains making certain moves impossible. and finally, the rotational stress imposed by spinning requires that the cable be attached to a spinner to prevent it from twisting, warping and breaking. Such spinners are notorious for sticking causing the same stress as if they weren't there. Ball chain is all spinners so there's never a problem there, and it almost never kinks making it the best choice for poi. This is a delicate art of direction, not control. any change in the behaviour of the poi in any position can lead to mistakes.SWL: Odd, I've checked my SS chain at very high stress and have had no problem. To prove my point once, I pulled my truck through sand with my poi. I can generally subject my #10 SS ball to more than 200 lbs. But I'll check into it.

Delete

Page: 12

Similar Topics

Using the keywords [ball chain rusting] we found the following similar topics.
1. Learn > How to make your own gear > Fire Poi > All about Ball Chain *help/resource bead chain  sink chain what is ball chain ball chain is a type of chain...
2. Learn > Juggling > 4 Balls > four ball columns (snakes) *help/resource four ball async columns  four ball snakes  this pattern is pretty...
3. Learn > Juggling > 3 Balls > 3 Ball Gathering *help/resource the right  instead  you throw this ball away from the center  to your left ...
4. Learn > Juggling > 4 Balls > 4 Ball Fountain *help/resource correction  this is called the 4 ball fountain  not cascade   i misspoke...
5. Learn > Juggling > Contact Ball Juggling > 2 ball chest roll *help/resource roll with two balls  you roll one ball over your arms and chest than do...

     Show more..