Forums > Technical Discussion > attaching kevlar to staff, screws

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Peregrine
member
Location: Mystic, Ct. USA
Member Since: 12th Jan 2001
Total posts: 428
Posted:ok 10 bucks says no one remebers who I am...anyhow, making a firestaff and sadly Incendium's site doesnt work so i can't look this up there.... I have aluminum tubing, and was not going to do the wood on the inside trick. (having compared both types of construction last weekend from differnt people's staves) the most comforatble weighted one had 2 wicks each side, screws through the kevlar, then tube, into the kevlar on the other side. no bolts sticking out the other side, the screw was just long enough to get through the wick and hold it. they said it held up pretty well, though maybe after a long time you might have to re-screw to tighten the wick down.so question is, when drilling the holes for screws through the aluminum first, do you do it with kevlar on and drill through all of it, or drill first, wrap kevlar, and screw the screws in by hand and hope you can hit the holes?also, a note. although the wick from Dube juggling may be cheaper by the foot (if you buy it in 100 foot rolls) than Renegade juggling's wick, it is not as thick, so you have to use twice as much length to get a wick of comparable size. so you really dont end up saving any money on that. cheers,Peregrine

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Firefairy
member
Location: UK
Member Since: 12th Oct 2001
Total posts: 115
Posted:drill through the kevlar once wrapped. Sometimes the kevlar can get caught up but its easier than finding the hole afterwards - thats my experience anywayI dont know who u r, but can i have the 10 bucks anyway?[This message has been edited by Firefairy (edited 19 October 2001).]

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:You lose! Make the check payable to Lynnie....better yet...buy yourself something nice and concider it a gift!
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Hey there woman...how are those birds? I've emailed you a couple times but I think Yahoo hates me and most aren't going through.Anyway, I agree...definately screw through it all at once...the search for the tubing hole is hell.Honestly the wood in the center holds up longer I think.With nothing in the center I have seen the tubes dent and warp with practice drops and such. Also, if you are going the simple screw and tube route may I suggest a pair of elongated needle nose pliers and bolt them on from the inside. I have seen staves get dropped and the screws pop off. Flaming Kevlar unwinds fairly quickly you know...not good. Unless of course it is glued and stays wound up, then it rolls away (thank god for leather shoes or I would've had toasty toes!)Take care Peregrine and write me sometime to tell me how you and Xestrel are doing!Hugs------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:I do remember you, Pere. But I disagree with Firefairy and Pele about the production technique. My own technique is more labor-intensive, but I get good results.Drill the tubing first. Then take pieces of stiff, fine piano wire and put them in the holes. These will serve as guides. Wrap the kevlar over this as you go; you can push the end on the "working" side down, lay the kevlar over it, and then push it through from the other side. Once you've got the kevlar all wrapped on, rubber-band it in place. Take a big sheetmetal screw and drive in where the guide-wires are. When you back out the screw, follow it in from the other side with a machine screw, which will be the permanent screw.Instead of nuts on the opposite side, I've been using 1" long "chicago screws" (also called screw posts or sex screws, yeah really), which look like screws, but are in fact tubes threaded on the inside. I use some heat-resistent loctite inside the chicago screw. Anyhow, these lay flat on the kevlar surface, and give you some margin for error on the screw's length.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Posted:Hey Pere,I remember you - I'll take the money
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anyhow - we make em by putting in the wood (neccessary to absorb impacts, otherwise your wicks will lossen - this happened on mine til I rebuilt em with wood inserts) then drilling the holes, then making a mark on the end of the wood for lining up the holes (measure the depth in with a ruler). Then we wrap the wick and rubber band it on. Then we get an Awl or other sharp pointy thing, and press it through the wick til we find the hole, then we whack in the screws.HTH,Josh


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Peregrine
member
Location: Mystic, Ct. USA
Member Since: 12th Jan 2001
Total posts: 428
Posted:well darnit do i have to pay all of you now?(and is 10 american $ still worth something like 25 australian ones?)thanks for the info, shall let you know how it goes. its getting cold now so probably not much spinning with actual fire will happen and lots of practicing in my living room, threatening the fish tank.only just recently met some staff spinners who actually know what theyre doing too so thats goodand no, haven't gotten mail on yahoo, try my other one peregrinekt @ pride.veldt.orgPere

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Posted:<pere>(and is 10 american $ still worth something like 25 australian ones?)</pere>heh sheesh do you have to rub it in?
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I can buy a car with $10 US...nice to seeya here, hopefully we might get a little bit of input from you maybe just a little bit huh pweese?
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Josh


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Peregrine
member
Location: Mystic, Ct. USA
Member Since: 12th Jan 2001
Total posts: 428
Posted:only if ppl are reeeeealy nice to me..
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Pere-a hoopy frood who really knows where he towel is


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Hey, I never forget a girl that I've slept with... How the heck ya been?! Keep the $10, you were worth it.
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Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Peregrine
member
Location: Mystic, Ct. USA
Member Since: 12th Jan 2001
Total posts: 428
Posted:If i say i slept with NYC is that a good thing? :Pbeen good, back is still hurt but you know, put some kerosene under my nose and i'll ignore the doctor's orders and go spin anyway (which is probably why its still hurt but oh well)havn't been hogging anybody's bed but my own...I would like to know why the heck all the fire twirling men are well and truly taken and all the fire twirling women are single. whats up with that? is it my worlds least sexy trailing act or what? so I met a woman today who was a majorette in high school (a long time ago, when they still called them 'majorettes' and not 'colour guard') and she can spin my staff and two staffs too, but weirdly enough she only really spins forward/thumb leading and no backward/pinky leading even when she turns around. so she couldn't help me figure out what the backward equivalent of the forward shoulder roll is (mine is currently really awkward feeling). so thats the challenge of the day. except im supposed to be working. gonna come spin with us some weekend? we have wine and cheese you know
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Pere


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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Hey, As I remember it I made the haul last time.And where the heck are all of these single fire twirling women of whom you speak? Why not load em all into your car and see how many people we can fit into my bed?
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Oops, Rule #1... uh... yes, interesting fact about the thickness, I was unaware that their was different thickness as I have only shopped at Dube, since it's just down the block from me.
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Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Posted:Sleeping with NYC (aka Fyrepimp) doesnt bring the instant status it used to...he's been a little bit booty happy lately, and so his social stock has fallen
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Josh


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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:Hey, toots, some of us aren't even a little taken. Of course, some of us are thousands of miles away...What was the topic of this thread again?

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Frenzie
member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 30th Jan 2001
Total posts: 515
Posted:I just made some toys last weekend and tried to not drill holes through aluminium first and just drill straight through (using a power drill), but didnt work, aluminium was a lot tougher than it looked unfortunately .... so holes in tube first then i did what josh suggested and marked the line where they were and measured the depth in with tape measure.Id also recommend the wood in the ends, everyone that has ever picked up my stick comments on how nicely weighted it is, and that helps when u spin.------------------ - Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -http://wickeffect.cjb.net

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

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Peregrine
member
Location: Mystic, Ct. USA
Member Since: 12th Jan 2001
Total posts: 428
Posted:you mean...the wine, the cheese, the cookies, the fur coat and the claim that I was a BED HOG doesnt mean he loves me??!?!?! *sob*see, maybe i should move to texas. its like a whole nother country
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or australia. which actually is.ahem. so anyway, today when i acquire the drill press, which is pretty heavy duty will try to go thru wicks and all sans wood, and if it doesnt really work, well, one can always stick wood in the ends later...Peregrineps the topic of this thread is, 'the secret hidden world where peregrine posts random flirting'
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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:"Fyrepimp"... Hrmmmm... The opportunities are endless. I can see the outfit too... How hard could it be to spin in gold chains and a cigar?Um... er... screws, yeah. Just remember "righty tighty-lefty loosie" As for my social stock: Buy low, sell high baby
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Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Posted:yo,I have a wooden staff...I wrapped the tin of a beer can round the staff with about 2 inches to spare below the wick and just put two woodscrews with cupwashers through the lot of it. took about half an hour. (15mins to drink the beer)Its still in experimental stage but apart from the ends getting a little black it looks ok. Ocasionally the wood wicks the parafin and the flames creep a little up the staff but the wood has yet to actually catch fire. I dont know how long it will last and weather I can put new ones on but how much is a broom handle?The point of all this is that the wood is lighter, gripier, dosnt bend or dint and dosnt conduct heat so well, it is also easyer to catch when wet, but thats britan for ya.###?

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Peregrine
member
Location: Mystic, Ct. USA
Member Since: 12th Jan 2001
Total posts: 428
Posted:well, made it yesterday.... heres the report:made staff with wood inserts in the ends after deciding that this would probably hold together the best and make drilling straight down easier. it has 2 wicks on each end made from 3 feet of dube kevlar...theres about a thumb's width between the wicks. the wicks are secured with (2) 1 1/2" drywall screws each (I think) which go through the wick/wood/aluminum tube. the wick was finished off by folding it over about 1.5" and the screws sunk through the fold. the wicks are flush with the ends so there is no metal part sticking out.some hints for making this go well.hint #1. plan to build staff when dad is home so dad feels compelled to help out helpless daughter with the project (mostly hoping I won't mess up his tools, I suspect, as if I would.)hint#2. helps with the drilling to have very secure work bench...his is designed to hold pipes along their entire length (no C-clamp type thing which could probably slip) so everything securely clamped down. helped immensely.hint#3 had all 4 wicks wrapped around pipe, secured with electrical tape where i wanted them before drilling. we found that in trying to drill through the wick, the kevlar fuzz of course wanted to wrap around the drill bit and slip on the pipe, and faster speed was not better. electric power drill much better than cordless.
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We found that wrapping the wick in electrical tape and drilling through that significantly reduced the tendency to wrap/slip on the pipe and made things lots easier. Hint#4 we did the screws one at a time as we drilled the holes and sunk them in by hand. there was not really any problem finding the hole in the pipe once we managed to get the screws though the kevlar, which was the most challenging part. we did discover, however, in the last couple of screws, that rubbing dishwashing soap on the screw before sinking it made it get through the kevlar a LOT easier.I cant think of what else. the weight is good, I have to go get some grip stuff for the handle today. we had a spin last night but didn't light it since it's a lot different from practicing with no wicks
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but there you go...how to make a firestaff, by mePeregrine


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