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Forums > Technical Discussion > is it possible to make a fire sword

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***pete
SILVER Member since Jul 2001

member
Location: melbourne, victoria, australia

Total posts: 38
Posted:i just want to know if it is possible to make a fire sword. i know that you could get a pole and wraped it up in kevlar but when you hit the other sword wouldn't it destroy the kevlar. so if any one can help that would be great.thanks pete

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Rolph


member
Location: Perth, Australia

Total posts: 22
Posted:If the kevlar was wrapped tightly then it would be ok as long as you weren't being really violent. The kevlar would wear out more quickly I imagine. Interesting idea.

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catboy


member
Location: leicester, england

Total posts: 167
Posted:my mate has some fire juggling balls... no really...they are like a metal cage thing, with a wick in the centre which you soak and light. it gives the effect of him juggling balls of fire, but acctually its just a ball of steel mesh with fire in. perhaps you could try something like that?

you can take the cat out of the jungle, but you cant take the jungle out of the cat

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audax
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

audax

freelance bum
Location: Upstairs, Australia

Total posts: 286
Posted:Incendium fire circus even has a video of a fire sword fight on their site. I know they are active on this bulletin board so they'll give you the instructions soon.http://www.incendium.org/------------------Your parents were wrongFire is good Play with fire[This message has been edited by audax (edited 12 October 2001).]

UYI wink OLDSKOOL

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Knagi


member
Location: Brunswick, Ohio

Total posts: 397
Posted:Weee fire swords! I've got a friend up here that wanted me to get him some kevlar to line the inside of his bamboo practice swords. I don't ever talk to him. So I haven't really put any thought into it. All I know though is that when we were fighting with them him and none of his friends held back. They smacked each other in the face if the chance came up so I kinda just let it fall. Don't think he had a clue what he was askin me to build.------------------We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonMost Memerable crowd saying "Hey look that dude's gonna set himself on fire again!"

We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC

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vanize
SILVER Member since Aug 2001

vanize

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Austin, Texas, USA

Total posts: 3899
Posted:One of the fire performers here in Houston does a fire sword. After many versions of it, He settled on a simple set up of a hardwood dowel wrapped with kevlar tape (like a racquet hand grip) and secured with some small wood screws and washers and a couple hose clamps. It works pretty well. He put a lead pommel on it as well to give it a better balance.

-v-

Wiederstand ist Zwecklos!

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Sinthia


member
Location: Los Angeles, CA, USA

Total posts: 2
Posted:A good friend of mine here in LA makes a variety of high quality fire swords. Check out his business - Bearclaw Manufacturing, at this link: http://www.tedward.org/bearclaw/index.html.If
you don't see what you're looking for, you can contact him - he makes custom equipment as well.Sinthia


~Sinthia

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.draevon
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

.draevon

member
Location: Androgen, Australia

Total posts: 92
Posted:Wrapping kevlar around a pole makes a peachy fire sword if you're using it as a 'dancing' type prop ... but if you want to actually fight with it, make sure you leave one edge free of kevlar, and i'd recommend not using wood.We use steel 'tape' which is about 30mm wide x 4mm thick x 1200mm long ... we bolt two of these strips together (for strength) and bolt a strip of kevlar around the back edge of the blade. This leaves the front edge free of kevlar whick means you can hit it against anything you want just about as hard as you want. Things to keep in mind are a good hilt (to protect you hands from flames) and a good handle, to stop the shock of eah strike destroying your hands.I could write up step by step instructions ... but you'll love your fire swords just that little bit more if you've done some creating and improvising yourself. I was thinking about selling fire swords for a bit, but they cost me over $100 to make and I didn't think anyone would be prepared to pay that much for them.I'm happy to answer any other questions anyone has about our fire swords or what we do with them.raevonIncendiumwww.incendium.org.

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***pete
SILVER Member since Jul 2001

member
Location: melbourne, victoria, australia

Total posts: 38
Posted:thank for the info. i want to make a sword that you could fight with. me and a few friend's are just geting into paid gigs now and we want to make up a small show. so we don't just have to twirl. i thought that if you got a piece of metal and just have a thin but long strip of kevlar down both sides of the metal than you could hit with the edges and not destroy the kevlar. the other problem is how to dip the whole sword in kero or should you just pour the kero on. pete

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spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX, USA

Total posts: 2014
Posted:The person who uses a fire sword in Houston has found a turkey baster to be quite useful in getting the fuel onto the sword.

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.draevon
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

.draevon

member
Location: Androgen, Australia

Total posts: 92
Posted:Yep ... you can't really dip a metre long fire sword, so you're going to have to find a way to pour on the fuel that your happy with. We just use a plastic cup and pour fuel onto our swords over our large fuel bucket.raevon.

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Pixie


member
Location: Canberra, ACT, Australia

Total posts: 8
Posted:Fire swords! My partner has played around with a few ideas. Our usual base for a sword being an old ski-pole (if you can find one with the carbon extra stuff in it they're stronger). The aluminium ones bedn under any sort of heat so be careful, and putting a screw through it weakens the metal. Tennis raquet tape, teh stuff they use for grip is really good. And cutting a sheet of steel or similar for a guard is a good idea (will need tape to protect your hand further because they get damned hot.It uses lots of kevlar and lots of fuel. Mark folds the kevlar and wraps it around really tightly. Teh other toy he's made in the same genre is the double sword like the Darth Maul one. It's basically two shorter swords and screws together in the middle. The screw thread is a weak point, but you twirl it just like a staff.Lots of fun. Teh swords are much hotter, and it's a good idea to leave the last few inches of 'blade' free of kevlar so you don't ruin the fabric when you hit the ground. I don't know the technicalities of how Mark puts it together but if you email us(fta@cyberone.com.au)he can send you instructions.We also recently got some very funky photos of sword fights and a few other cute things.-Pixie

FTA- Fire Twirlers AnnonymousIt's not just an act, it's an addiction

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Tedward


Tedward

member
Location: LA,CA, USA, SOL3, Milky Way, A...

Total posts: 30
Posted:Dreavon: Yes, you can dip fire swords, use a sealed PVC tube of the proper length and fill it with fuel. If you're looking for a real combat worthy fire sword, don't get the standard ones at Bearclaw, they're tweaked for single performance, and aluminum dosent give you that ring you're looking for. Try this: Take an EMT tube (about 3/4") and tape up one end for a handle. Leather wrap would be best, or some kind of insulatory tubing. Bolt down the tubing. Then, add 4-6 bolts through the "blade" and twist up some 2" kevlar so that it's the same length as the blade. Bolt it down and soak in a 1.5" sealed pvc tube. Use Kero. You might want to have the wick a little short of the handle or put a handguard in there. If you don't want to futz with it, I'm sure that Bearclaw could build it for ya:http://www.bearclawmfg.com

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Teine


member
Location: Asheville, NC

Total posts: 74
Posted:i'm working on a design for one right now....why is everyone limiting themselves to tape wicking? this seems like the perfect thing for rope wick.------------------"life begins between the night and the light."

life begins between the night and the light.

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Rick aka Loki
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Rick aka Loki

member
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Total posts: 134
Posted:I've used the swords we built a few times and they seem solid. We used a piece of 1 1/4" rattan (bamboo), 32" long. Tried protecting the striking edge with a strip of aluminum tape, but it slid off and was banged up in fighting with it. In the end, a strip of hinge was used for the striking edge. It forms well to the curve of the wood where it hinges. Several layers of cotton towel were masking-taped onto the shaft, then the kevlar was screwed in place over that. Add a basket hilt as ye see fit, and viola.The guy I'm learning sword technique from so that I can add flaming sword to my show is a member of the Society for Creative Anachronism, a medieval society. So basically, when we're going at it all fiery like, we actually are swinging at each other and defending with the swords and with long rattan poles with wick on the end.We've been pouring fuel on, but I like Draevon's idea of dipping in a tube. Storage has actually been a bigger problem, but if I take the hilt off, maybe it'll store in a tube as well.[This message has been edited by Rick (edited 13 December 2001).]

-Rick aka Loki
oh, man, a signature?... uuh... this is like coming across wet cement... uuh, shoot, I had something clever I was saving... I hope I don't run out of sp

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Maximus


member
Location: Upland, CA., USA

Total posts: 250
Posted:I make and use several fireswords.Basically I've either taken a sword and wrapped it in kevlar or constructed one from scratch. My first was a five foot european longsword with five feet of kevlar wired on. The second was a darn do (Chinese saber), also with wired kevlar. Both burned really good, but were both too heavy for fast, continuous movement. And stage combat would prolly break the wire holding the wicking on.Now I make fireswords out of aluminum rods cut from hospital crutches. My latest model is a "Darth Maul" type with the two swords attaching together with a brass pin and hole lock. Very strong and fast. The crossguard is a big carriage bolt drilled through the rod. the kevlar is bolted on from the tip to the forte. They should be good for full-contact stage combat. BTW I've used Tedward's fueling tube on my five-foot flamberg. It works really good. Next best is the turkey baster and a bucket.

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carpe_nox


carpe_nox

member


Total posts: 13
Posted:i think that before you decide to work with a flaming sword, you should probably do a little research on fuel and your body.i'll asume you breathe too, im sure if you have done your research you would know that, 100 years ago, if you wanted to be a circus performer, the bottom of the barrel job was to breathe or sword swallow, sword swallowing not only tares up your oesophagus, but it destroys all muscles at the top of your throat, and the enterance to your stomach, making digestion slightly more,...interesting.If you continue to put fuel in your body, you wont last long, do you know any old fire breathers? probably not, because they have either died of liver cancer, kidney faliure,or other various fatal diseases. Im not trying to be parental, in fact my best mate was hugely into breathing, but we were warned of the dangers, and have stopped imediately, everybody diserves to have a good idea of what they are doing to their bodys when they breathe or sword swallow. Maybe instead you can spend more time twirling, and comming up with awesome tricks, then slowly killing yourself.Have fun

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Tedward


Tedward

member
Location: LA,CA, USA, SOL3, Milky Way, A...

Total posts: 30
Posted:carpe: I don't know a single sword spiiner that eats the swords as well (swollowing). But, hey, that's a jolly good idea. I'll work on a model for that...Teine: Because most people wrap the swords with tape. I suppose the design I came up with would work just as well with rope, though. It's easy to get caught in a loop here. My designs depend on the tape because I use a different wick type that burns a lot longer.Maximus? Of Prometheus? Glad you worked out that connector. Give me a call, I'm working on a new sword routine.

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.draevon
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

.draevon

member
Location: Androgen, Australia

Total posts: 92
Posted:100 years ago, they didn't have 'motor cars' or 'tv' either. While it's true that I don't know any old fire breathers, I also don't know any old garbage men either ... so who knows. Obviously it's a good idea to be aware of risks and dangers, but you can be an occasional fire breather and live a nice happy life outside of hospital too. Either way, I thought this was a swords thread.raevonof Incendiumwww.incendium.org

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McFly


member
Location: Melbourne, Vic, Australia

Total posts: 7
Posted:Is it possible to get kevlar woven into a tubular pattern?I know carbon fibre can be woven as such, and you could proberbly knit/weave/plat a fine kevlar cord around a pole/blade.Would this prove stronger than the wrapped tape, or would the impact be just as detrimental?

I like the pretty lights...

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Maximus


member
Location: Upland, CA., USA

Total posts: 250
Posted:Har, Tedward! Good to see you at the Palace. As I think about it, Tedward's swords with the v-shaped trough down the blade would probably work best. I've firedanced with his swords and they are very nicely made and burn well. But you'd have to make them out of a stronger sheet of metal than he uses if you wanted to do a lot of banging around. His design gives you an edge and a flat side to the blade for blocking. I don't think any kevlar-to-kevlar contact would last very long.Maximus

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Carpe-Nox, I am entering this thread on a strictly mod basis. Instead of deleting your post I am adressing this here because I need people to know that the information you are suppling is not entirely correct, again. Please stop distributing half truths of safety and risks as it does no one any good.I also feel your post is irrelevant to this thread... since this thread is about fire swords, not sword swallowing and not fire breathing/eating.For your information, until I suffered a physical set back (due to a history of bulemia) I was practicing sword swallowing. If you would like a write up of all of the real dangers of sword swallowing then email me at Spiderblade@yahoo.comPlease be assured that while I appreciate your desire for everyone to be safe and well, which I share, I can not put up with the distribution of false safety information. This is your second warning on the topic Carpe, please keep on topic and to proven safety facts.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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SorchaTheFlaming


member
Location: Calgary alberta Canada

Total posts: 235
Posted:huzzah...Im in the S.C.A tooi also fight in the full armor..and im a girlAND turned one of my swords into a fire swordi find that duct tape melts and reeks (you best not give me hell for using that as you have no idea how great that stuff is at practice heh heh) anyhow i also found that my sword likes to absorb fuel... i wrapped teh bugger in tin tape then the wickstill suck though as it doesnt look like a sword its just a flaming stick..my next thing is im going to get a dull stainless steel "blank" so to speak (not s.c.a legal b.t.w ) and drill some holes through the flat of the sword and both on some 3-4 layers of kevlar ribbon dunk and go not only do ya get the neat ringing sound when ya pound someone over the helm it get all black and dirty... look like somthing of of willow... Very cool (and its on fire) (also not s.c.a legal) [This message has been edited by SorchaTheFlaming (edited 20 December 2001).]

Teach tolerance, not competition.
Send food, not bombs.

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Tedward


Tedward

member
Location: LA,CA, USA, SOL3, Milky Way, A...

Total posts: 30
Posted:You could go mostly legal with rattan wrapped in aluminum tape (over the duct tape, I guess) then bolt a wick above the sword. You'd have on edge flaming, and the other edge legal.Tubular Kevlar does exist. Write me with your needs and I'll try to get 'em filled. I don't have it on the site because most people don't want it. But I can get Kevlar in about any weave.

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utena


member
Location: Laramie, WY USA

Total posts: 1
Posted:Just saw this topic and didn't think there were that many people doing fire swords. This is cool. I just wanted to post this suggestion about how to place the kevlar on whatever you're using. I've always tried to put the kevlar on in a cone fashion on the metal/wood pole. That way, more fuel is stored at the base which is good for weight distribution and will give you a longer, fuel length burn than just placing it on straight and narrow. Also, the fuel will move towards the end while you are spinning so the end never goes out. Hope that helps someone. I was wondering what sword styles people used in their performances. I tend to follow Chinese, Kendo, or other Southeast asian sytles. They tend to have more flamboyance. Then again, I'm the only one with a sword. So, I do mostly forms and less hacking. Great to see all the interest in fire swords.

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Well - I know this is an old thread, and many people who wrote in here are absent nowadays but anyway...

I've got a cheapy old Katana (you know, the nasty cheap ones you see in Spanish holiday shops) which I don't ever use as I have other proper swords and was thinking about turning it into a fire sword - might as well use it for something.

I have 6ft of Kevlar wicking and so was just wondering if it'd be any good to combine the two into a fire sword.

I've "test-wrapped" the kevlar around the blade in various different ways - straight up the blade and down the other side, folded in the middle around the blade and also racquet-grip style (spiraled up the entire length).

I'm won't be using it for fighting (at least not yet) so it doesn't need to be hugely strong.
The sword is made of 440 Stainless steel with a wooden handle which I've re-gripped with tennis racquet grip tape for comfort. It has a brass hilt (very small) which I know is super heat conducting and so will obviously pad this out somehow.

But in theory will it work or will the metal get too hot and shatter at the lightest contact? It's a surprisingly nice weight with the wicking on - although fuel will obviously add more to this but it should still be quite managable.

Any thoughts people?


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Fire By Riz tm


member
Location: tampa fl usa

Total posts: 212
Posted:I make fire swords for fighting I have a couple of freinds who are into it ask me to make them
what I did 1st was buy a couple of cheap swords
ebay 30 dollar ones they dont have real hard steel for blades.Then I bought a speical drill bit so i could drill some small holes in the blade then I just sewed wicking on one side on the blade leaving a metel edge for fighting contact, note these guy dont fight full out with these swords but they do hit hard enough
so they really make noise.

I have a set of fighting grade swords coming for these two guys we found a sword maker
who would drill the holes in the blade before he hardened it I will have picture of these on my site as soon as i get them done


I have been cursed with the imagination to envision it all

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ivan..


ivan..

member
Location: Halifax, NS

Total posts: 165
Posted:trial and error ...

we eventually found the proper combination of weight/strength/flame ....

i supose i could spend a bunch of time suggesting getting someone to show you proper sword technique before "fighting" with a flaming metal sword .. but deaf ears and whatnot

good luck ..


thats right i look like an albino ape that has had a bad day.. go ahead say something stupid... i dare ya !

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Durbs
BRONZE Member since Sep 2001

Durbs

Classically British
Location: Epsom, Surrey, England

Total posts: 5688
Posted:Well, I'm learning the Tan Tow (sp?) and moving on to the Schuang Tow soon-ish (chinese broadsword and double broadsword BTW) so I'm not "untrained" as such.
Plus none of my friends know any weapons skills so I wouldn't be fighting them without several hours choreography.

But anyhoo - I don't really want to waste 6ft of kevlar on a trial run - one burn will leave it blackened and soaked and it's then horrible to work with.


Burner of Toast
Spinner of poi
Slacker of enormous magnitude

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Dio


Dio

HoP Mechanical Engineer
Location: OK, USA

Total posts: 729
Posted:Not sure what the burning temperature of most fuels is, but I do know that it takes upwards of 730 degrees Centigrade to make steel even undergo a phase change. The only worry about "shattering" a blade at high-temp is that you may over-temper it after many many many burns and it could get brittle... but that's only assuming you quench it in water to cool it down, which I doubt any typical fire spinner would do outside of an emergency.

PM me and I can give u a link to a buddy of mine who has a fire katana and uses it frequently... he can tell ya how to wrap it, etc.


What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.

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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:hmm, just occurred to me, AND no one has brought this up..Regarding the 440 stainless katana's, most are NOT full tang, and have schitty handles. This could translate into a broken handle, injuries, etc if fighting full on blade/blade contact occurs..Please make sure your blade is full tang before any contact neh

n have fun, wish I could talk someone into doin this round my parts.


First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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