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Frenzie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 515
Posted:Noticed that adamrice asked for feedback on the hand harnesses so I thought id start the thread as a few of his sets have started on the relay.I was able to use these poi whilst at Finn's house and found the harnesses quite worrying...Tangles dont happen that often anymore, but when they do i think the ability to be able to throw the poi to the ground.....with them attached to your arm that would be fairly difficult.What are the reasons behind the harnesses?And has anyone else had a chance to have a play with them and have found they liked or disliked them?Of course this is just a personal opinion ... not trying to dis your poi making abilities adam, though i must say the leather was very nicely made up!

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

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Posted:Yeah I used a set similar to these at BM; Nomad's friend (sorry I cant rememeber her name) had finger grips like this...I totally agree with Frenzie. I cant remeber the last time I accidentally let go of a poi - but I can remember several times when being able to let go voluntarily very quickly has been of great help to me.Josh

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Frenzie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 515
Posted:When i had a play i didnt actually put them on with fire ...only before hand before lighting up. I guess it could help take the strain off your fingers...and they were fairly heavy chains, but im still wairy :P

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:Perhaps we can chalk this up to variations in local firedancing communities. Many (if not most) of the fire-poi users around here have something vaguely similar to my hand harnesses, in that it goes around both your wrist and two fingers (I've seen some people who turned gloves into harnesses also).I guess the disadvantage is obvious (well, also, they are slower to put on, but that gets faster as they break in). The advantage is that you never need to worry about your grips sliding down your fingers; in fact, you can let your hands go completely slack and just become extensions of your wrists. Not everyone cares for it, I know.For whatever it's worth, I've never seen anyone get into real trouble with hand harnesses (my own or others)--they've almost always been able to untangle their chains, and there's always been a towel-person ready to jump in. That's the other thing--with some of the simpler grip designs I've seen, while they are faster to remove, that would still be slower than a towel-person's reaction. I've had my fair share of entanglements, and have never suffered a burn as a result of being strapped in (suffered lots of other burns, of course).Anyhow, thanks for the feedback. Always keen to get more (either through here {if Malcolm doesn't mind} or directly).

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Blackbird


member
Location: London UK

Total posts: 337
Posted:i have two finger straps tat I made myself out of offcuts from a shoestore, thick leather. They are very comfortable being quite thick and a bit furry, and stay on if i straighten my fingers out. I like them a lot more than the ones which I bought. I don't see how a wrist harness would be any improvement...

x X x Ĉ К я x X x

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Frenzie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 515
Posted:Blackbird : Just means that you can relax your hands without worrying about losing your grip on the poi and them flying away.A lot of the strain is taken away directly from your hand.Im quite happy with just using finger straps, guess thats because what ive always used, and as Adam said, different place different custom.

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

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Blackbird


member
Location: London UK

Total posts: 337
Posted:yeah my straps are thick enough, ~ 2cm, that they stay on if i relax my hands. And, in fact, straps stay on me anyway when i relax my hand... you should be able to swing, diverting all the centrifugal (centripetal? whatever) force sort of sideways... It's hard to describe, but when I swing the straps dont pull away from my fingers, they sort of pull outwards...
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now gloves, they are an interesting idea...


x X x Ĉ К я x X x

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Frenzie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 515
Posted:Yeah i have no problem with letting go either, and my straps are fine....Was an interesting experience trying them out though!

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

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GaBBeRave19


member
Location: Alexander, Iowa

Total posts: 72
Posted:ive always used a cheap harness, when i first started teaching myself i just got a couple bootlaces with slipknots to go around my wrist and burnt out glowsticks. helps alot when ur spinning really fast in clubs raves or probably an audience. ive been spinning almost 2 yearz and hav yet to try the finger method i can do trix fine and even a few ive never seen, u learn not to tangle if u cant just drop em i guess. the ONLY problem ive had with it is the one handed butterfly. -------------------------------------NeVeR St0p ThE RavE

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rae


member
Location: San Francisco Area, CA, USA

Total posts: 6
Posted:About the hand/finger harnesses vs loops or rings-I've been using metal rings on my poi since I started, just for the versatility and the easy let-go thing. But about mid-week at Burning Man, both my wrists starting hurting like hell, and it was almost impossible to spin. I had to wear braces (Ace bandage-thingies) and I wasn't sure I'd be able to spin poi ever again. But a friend of mine had a spare pair of finger taps/harnesses. I've started using those, and my wrist pain has gone away completely since then. Oddly enough, I was using someone else's poi briefly, that had ring handles, and within a minute or so my wrists hurt again. Just illustrated the difference it made to my wrists, I guess.So, any of you who have parents with bad joints, or might be having wrist pain, using finger harnesses might be the solution for you. *Wrist* harnesses, on the other hand, would be a very bad idea as they'd put the weight of your poi back on your wrists, removing any benefit you get from the harnesses.Anyway. Just my slightly-off-topic two cents.

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Frenzie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 515
Posted:Can you explain what finger harnesses are?Cause these ones were ones that strapped around your wrist and joined to double finger loops. so im assuming u mean these type are wrist harnesses?

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:Frenzie--I don't mean to speak for Rae, but I think I know what he (she?) means.Finger harnesses are just finger loops (usually two loops, but sometimes only one) that you've probably seen around. I call these "finger nooses" because the way I usually see them, they pull snug around the fingers. Wrist harnesses are just basic straps that go around your wrist. I know this is what Pele uses.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:I don't like anything you can't just DROP if you tangle. I've never accidentally let go and sent a poi flying but I HAVE had tangles and such where I was glad I could just drop em. I guess it's different if you're performing and such but in a casual setting I'd much prefer "non-noose" style grips so I can drop em and live to twirl another day.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Posted:Not everyone on this board has all there limbs and any aid to help can only be good.Hand harnesses sound like a good idea to me.Born without 70% of fingers on right hand.

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Plasmator


member
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Total posts: 4
Posted:I have a set of adam's harnesses, and have always been pleased with them. The extra strap around my wrist has been really nice when opening my hands for some moves. It's really a personal preference thing.I think that the main reasons we don't worry about tangles so much are:1) That ballchain he uses NEVER tangles badly, I've always been able to pull tangles right back out2) We're Very safe at our practices. No one ever gets to burn without someone standing, watching closely, with a wet towel. We've got buckets of water and extinguishers on hand at all our burns, and I've never seen one of us hurt themselves or someone else.So, yeah, Me....I like them a lot. They're comfortable, they look cool, and I'm getting a lot of use out of them.But, to each his own. I think Adam also sells fingerloops, if that's more your style.------------------"Whenever cannibals are on the brink of starvation,Heaven in its infinite mercy sends them a nice plump missionary." - Oscar Wilde http://www.plasmator.net/poi


Whenever cannibals are on the brink of starvation,
Heaven in its infinite mercy sends them a nice plump missionary.
- Oscar Wilde

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Marlboro


member
Location: St.Annes, Lancashire, England

Total posts: 180
Posted:I use finger hoops - find them very comfy and easy to releaseI'm haven't tried any others, but I'm interested what you guys use and how you hold them. I use my 1st finger and little finger, which allows me to vary the fit by changing my hand position - I prefer to have them tight fitting, but I sometimes end up with raw knuckles!?!
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M:-)~


We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold.

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Blackbird


member
Location: London UK

Total posts: 337
Posted:i find that flexibility in my fingers is one of the post important things... it allows me to do the 5 beats and the btbs and all the hard moves, you get that little extra twist from your fingers than you cant get from your arms... so wouldnt wrist straps take this away?

x X x Ĉ К я x X x

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Posted:I use my hand grips for othr moves that I otherwise wouln't be able to do such as inside moves. It also makes it easier to go between my legs.

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Shouden-CrD
SILVER Member since Apr 2001

Veteran Member
Location: Tampa, FL, USA

Total posts: 495
Posted:I, as well, used adamrice's finger nooses and can attest to the fact that it takes a little getting used to, however once used to them, they are great. I used mine so much, teh leather shrunk and degraded to the point where I was forced to make nylon straps. :P Using the noonses you get this "letting go" feeling that just feels more..natural..*shrug* just my 2gp------------------ [PLUR]-=Crazy Raver Dude=-

-=razyRaverude=-

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Shouden-CrD
SILVER Member since Apr 2001

Veteran Member
Location: Tampa, FL, USA

Total posts: 495
Posted:I forgot to mention that they(finger nooses) are the best thing since sliced cheese for performances. All of the people that I have talked to that were interested in hiring me for performances....Their #1 worry was a flaming poi flying off into the crowd, which is next to impossible with finger nooses on. I have already told them I would wear my nooses(I'll have to buy a new pair!) for events and such. *looking forward to that 2mil fire insurance coverage*And as a note, out of all the times I've lit up with my nooses(I use his ball chain as well), I've only ever had them tangle in a performance once, that had my hands at an awkward angle behind my back tangled, (on fire), needless to say, one flip of my wrists, and they were untangled.
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Those damn ballchains are next to impossible to tangle up.CRD[This message has been edited by CrazyRaverDude (edited 15 October 2001).]


-=razyRaverude=-

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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:For whatever it's worth, I've made up some prototype hand harnesses that overcome the problem CRD mentioned, where the finger straps have deteriorated: these use two kinds of leather, a heavy, stiff leather, with deerskin laminated over that to pad the fingers. One of these went to Australia, and are what Frenzie originally commented on in this thread. One set went to Europe for the relay there, and one set is my own. It's more of a pain to make, and I have been reluctant to offer it commercially until I had some field-testing.I've also recently discovered elk hide, which is as soft as deer hide, but much thicker, and I've started using that instead of deer hide.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Shouden-CrD
SILVER Member since Apr 2001

Veteran Member
Location: Tampa, FL, USA

Total posts: 495
Posted:adam,How long do you think till the end of your prototyping? Would you be interested in a paying-prototyper? :P If not, mark me on your list as the first person who wants one when and if you do start selling em.
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CRDshouden@guilds.com


-=razyRaverude=-

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Posted:mmm My poi are quite light...I use the two finger loop method, and have only let one go when I was going to recieve NASTY burns by holding on.I was thinking tho, that Adam's Harnesses sound like they would be a really good solution for really heavy poi. Does the wrist guard thing take some / all of the strain?I've been considering building a *large* pair of poi, and I'm not sure my fingers can take the strain...has anyone got any experience with heavy poi setups?Josh

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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:Josh--The wrist straps don't absorb much of the load. They mostly just fix the finger straps in place. But I use pretty wide (3 cm) finger straps, which distribute the load pretty well, and also, with the prototype I mentioned, the wrist strap feels like it takes a little more of the load. The prototype finger straps can only get so tight; after that, they seem to convey the rest of the load to the wrist strap. With my original finger-loop design, they can keep pulling tighter.Blackbird--I don't find that having the finger loops retained by the wrist straps limits my finger motion--I can do the 5-beat (going fwd), and all the btb stuff. But for me, it's more a matter of wrist action than finger action anyhow, and I think that for that, the combination of wrist and finger straps works better. As has been said, though, it's all a matter of taste.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Ithaca


member
Location: Bath UK

Total posts: 45
Posted:I met Chloe in the park today and was introduced to 'Chloes hand harnesses'. Having read this thread previously I thought I would have a go and see what they were like....Pro Chloe's harnesses:1. Fair enough it is pretty scary having poi actually attached to your arm! However, Chloe's harnesses had an easy release strap around the wrist which is very easy to get off, which inspires a little more confidence.2. Its nice not to actually have to hold on to the poi, you can actually let go and swing them on your wrist.3. You are not going to accidentally let go and swing them into and crowds/passers by.4. The look good, in a sado masachistic(?) kind of way.Against Chloes hand harnesses:1. You can't do any one handed stuff (though I can't do much one handed stuff anyway).2. They take a while to put on.3. The look kind of sado masachistic.Anyway, I managed to get some (crap) photo's which can be seen atwww.poishop.f2s.com/poiimage.htmlSo have a look for your self!be niceIthaca------------------check my pics etc at www.poishop.f2s.com------------------errrm "I intend to live forever, or at least die trying." Voltaire

------------------
errrm I intend to live forever, or at least die trying.
Voltaire

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