Forums > Technical Discussion > spinning in another dimension

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dangerboy


dangerboy

original member
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Total posts: 205
Posted:Hey kids. I've seen one mention on the net about building fire crosses after I had a revelatory dream about them. Well, after some experimenting lashing bamboo together and many many trips to the local hardware store and metalworking shop, I am now the proud owner of a cross. For those of you who have no idea what it looks like, here's the breakdown of the parts needed:1. 1" diameter metal tee joint (i used copper)2) 1" diameter small piece of pipe of same metal3) 1" diameter wood dowel4) 4 wod screws5) electrical tapeSo here's how it's made:Take yer bits of pipe and go to a metal working place (or a friend, or yourw workshop). Weld the small piece of pipe into the tee joint opposite the odd bit so they form an balanced cross (if you can fint a metal cross joint, more power to ya). Drill 4 holes, one in each arm. Tape the ends of each of four pieces of dowel (around 2.5' each) so that they fit snugly into the cross arms. Fasten with wood screws. Put padding on the ends. Go crazy.When you spin a staff, you can only really spin on one plane at a time. With a cross, you can spin in two dimensoins at a time. It will blow you away, and it looks unreal. I'll see if I can get some video shot in the next few weeks.BTW, if anyone has any ideas on how to make two seperate staves lock together as a cross, I'd love to hear is. A fully assembled cross is kinda unweildy to store and transport.Cheers,a nd welcome to the next dimension.

Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath, fire my spirit

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I haven't done this but Prometheus has tied them together with leather, weaving it in and out and around. It was impressive. Then he just untied it when he was done....took a bit of time but was worth it. He says the only issue was that one bar sits on the other so it is thick. I think we are going to try to sand a hollow in one so that the other fits into it...then add the leather and see what happens...or a screw under the leather for extra insurance. Either way I am a leather freak so I am happy!
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BTW....do you know the other element chants (other than Earth my body.....or the dance that goes with it? Very cool. Happy YULE!
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)------------------PeleHigher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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ffirebell
GOLD Member since Dec 2000

ffirebell

member
Location: Aotearoa, New Zealand

Total posts: 44
Posted:Hey, far out!! I just decided to try a cross the other day! I used my plexiglass tube staffs, duct taped them together and reinforced with bits of coat hanger. Its fabulous eh?! Wanna see something reeeaal cool, I dunno if its in other countries but the Cirque du Soliel put out an imax movie and it rocks, the best part of course is the guy spinning a CUBE!!!! yes! a CUBE, I figure it was made out of Aluminum, it was probably about 6" bigger than him. It looked pretty much like he was doing staff kinda moves.. absolutely fab! Happy fire kids! Fairie firebell

Fairie's wear boots.

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dangerboy


dangerboy

original member
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Total posts: 205
Posted:Hey Bronwyn,Yeah, Jude saw that and has the cube itch. I think cross is a nice progression from spinning in one plane to two. A cube would bring it into three planes. I can barely envision it. I'll wait 'til I master the second dimension before moving into the third. Must remember; baby steps, baby steps baby steps (but it's so hard!). Pele, no, I don't know any other chants or accompanying dances. I know the Earth my body one from an ambient techno song called "The Elemental". It's pretty nice and a good warm-up song. Napster rules!

Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath, fire my spirit

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xaeda


xaeda

member
Location: Sydney, Australia

Total posts: 129
Posted:hey dangerboy
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I've been working on the cross thing too. So far I've just been using my two 1m staffs tied together with strips of inner tube rubber. Seems to work, it's a bit stretchy, so you can get it quite tight. But Pele's right, it's a pain the way the one sits on the other.My latest idea is to have a three pronged cross thing - three sticks coming from a central point. I haven't found a binding for the center yet, but I'm gonna look in an industrial hosing place. I've seen similar things in a shop like that - they're made for connecting two hoses into one, but if you got the right size, you could stick bits of aluminium into each one and glue them or screw them in place. I was eyeing up my flatmate's wheelbrace the other day....but it weighs a tonne! Perfect shape though. Mmm, it's calm, it's warm, I'm going for a burnx(sorry northernhemispherians, you'll get your own back when I'm languishing in winter!)


the memories fire, the rhythm falls slow....

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Knagi


member
Location: Brunswick, Ohio

Total posts: 397
Posted:My last week has been spent thinking and pondering a nice cross. Got the plans laid out and went to the hardware store only to find they don't sell conduit cross peices only boxes. I'll be doing alot of searching now to find the missing peice. Thinking about just making two 3 1/2 footers. Want to do double something and can't do double 5 foot staves :P That cube idea sounds insane. I was just begining to think of my next toy after the cross and fire circle. I'll ponder this one all week. Maybe longer :P When you say cube spinning I'm thinking of a cross with a staff put into it in the other plane. Or was is a solid flaming cube? That would be funny seeing someone throwing around this flaming box :P------------------We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonMost Memerable crowd saying "Hey look that dude's gonna set himself on fire again!"[This message has been edited by Knagi (edited 13 August 2001).]

We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC

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Augusta


member
Location: Sydney, Australia

Total posts: 9
Posted:Some people mentioned problems with the thickness of a cross. What if you created two staves with housing joints in the centre, that could be 'locked' together and then secured with leather?Each staff would essentially look like this:**||-----------___------------||****||----------------------------||**And two staves could be slotted into one another, perpendicularly, at the centre.Since I am fairly inept at engineering (I used to think Manual Labour was a Spanish political party) there are some handy pictures of housing joints at:http://www.diydata.com/techniques/timber_joints/box_joints/box_joints.htmhttp://www.sirjlawes.herts.sch.uk/faculties/tech/cvs/wood_joints2/others.htmWould this compromise the strength of the staff? Could it work? Would it fail? Has this been thought of before?------------------Augusta'When the light came on it nearly blinded me.'[This message has been edited by Augusta (edited 13 August 2001).]

Augusta'What the flame does not consume, consumes the flame.'

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:Hey peeps,I use double crosses. Augusta, you have the right idea. At the moment my crosses consist of two pieces of metal tubing bolted together and covered in electrical tape (to be replaced with leather one fine day). The disadvantage to my current design is that the two pieces of metal (aluminium I think) don't sit flush. The fact that it is only very narrow in diameter lessens the problem though.My man has always wanted to cut into one of the pieces so they would sit flush, as with housing joints. My problem with this is that I honestly think that because the piping is so thin to start with, this technique could adversely effect the integrity of the toy. to have that much force on one thin piece of metal is just not safe, IMHO. Aside from safety, I think that they would eventually bend anyway.If I was using a tougher, thicker metal I suppose I wouldn't be so reluctant to try it out. thing is, those crosses are so heavy with drag etc when they're lit I really don't think I could handle much more weight in them. Although only small, the friction of 8 balls of fire is immense.

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:BTW - moving over to technical.

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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:Although I've barely started using staff, I've been intrigued by cross as a construction problem for some time. I've looked high and low for + shaped couplings. No joy.Dangerboy's design was a jumping-off point this idea:Get a T joint. Drill out a hole opposite the bottom leg, so that a dowel can slide straight through the hole and the bottom leg of the T. You will be using one dowel to span the entire length in this direction, and two half-length dowels the other way.Drill small holes in each arm where you'll put screws to retain the dowels.Now cut the T joint in half, so you wind up with two parts that will fit over the dowels like a clamshell. Does this make sense? It's hard to illustrate the idea in words.If this is a piece you will be breaking down and putting together with any frequency, I'd use screw posts (also called Chicago screws) to retain the dowels instead of wood screws, so that you aren't chewing up the wood constantly. If there's some way to use hose clamps without the risk of tearing up your hands, putting one on each leg of the T joint would make the whole thing stronger. Perhaps you could wrap a textile or leather covering around the whole junction area.And ideally, you'd anchor a screw in the inside-tip of one of the half-length dowels, and a socket for it in the other. Drill a hole in the full-length dowel so the screw could pass through. That way everything would be really secure.Rather than adding tape to increase the dowels' diameter, I'd start with something a little too big and sand it down.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Knagi...the cube wasn't on fire at all in the CIrque Du Soliel thing, just to let you know.
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Knagi


member
Location: Brunswick, Ohio

Total posts: 397
Posted:Ohh pele you should know me well enough by now to know I'll have one flaming by the end of the year. I'd like to have it in 66 days, playa del furgo the eastcoast burn. Nothing will stop me from getting there. I don't even have one yet and my mind has been comming up with moves for it ever since I saw the idea. How about a pass under the legs jumping the two side points tapping my back with the lead point, standing to give it some forward movement and also to dodge the incomming follow point. catch infront letting the follow point slide to my side stopping the lead point and spinning the out points in a normal 360.
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I need to wait for school to start so I can get some metal shop peeps to weild it together for me. :P Hehe only problem I see with it so far is that it's not gonna be able to fit though ANY doorways :P It's gonna sit in the back of my truck all the time. I don't think there would be anyway to break it down without losing some of the streagth, and dropping it and hitting myself in 6 spots at the same time is gonna get frustrating, not to mention all the twisted fingers I'm gonna get from tryin to pivot it around. BTW Pele I dunno how often you check your e-mail but I sent you some details on my next project and I was hoping to get your feedback on it befor I went out and dumpped the cash for putting it together. Also to add to it I asked a local firemen on his take of it and he said I should use propaine to fuel it.. I see that as a HORRIABLE idea, instead of just having the chance of burning myself, it could explode!!! the whole damn thing could just go up sending scrapnle everywhere! I'm insured now but still. I'd rather see it come together with something much less vilatale.------------------We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonMost Memerable crowd saying "Hey look that dude's gonna set himself on fire again!"


We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC

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bec
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

bec

member
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...

Total posts: 521
Posted:Flash Fire, rather than actually cutting into the staves and making them weaker, is there any reason why you can't flatten each one at the centre point (easy enough to do with a big hammer if you are using thin walled aluminium tube). I did this when I was playing with some designs for other toys, and it helped to reduce the bulk without compromising the overall strength... I'll play around with it and see if it works - I don't see why it wouldn't, but I'll let you know...

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Knagi


member
Location: Brunswick, Ohio

Total posts: 397
Posted:RAWR I built my cross today. It's *BEASTLY* that's the only way to discribe it. Went to Home depo to find a cross joint and only found it in 1/2in galvinized steel. it was threaded to. looked around abit and found the 1/2in piping the threads were for! :P I now have a cross that is drop proof will never lose it's balance point. And is fully able to be broken down. Without any over lapping peice's. However on the down side...GALVINIZED STEEL ****HURTS!!**** Not only does this beast weigh over 15 pounds but it's solid steel! I got 4 18in pipes to thread into the cross. picked up some foam padding and a roll of duct tape. Thank god I padded it clocked myself in the face so hard it hurt the back of my head! Every part of it is covered in padding and duct tape. Even the center. Only the 4 hand grips near the center of each pipe. thouse I covered with colored tape to see where to get my hands. After toying around with it for about 4 hours tonight my muscles are dead! I'm gonna become so ripped from twriling this beast! I have really light poi and my staff is made outa aluminum conduit with a dowel down the center. I should have taken sage's advice and gotten some heavyer heads. But now that I have this BEAST who cares about heavy poi.:P I can't wait to get my cube! ohhh I'm drooling at the thoughts of 3-D! I have a set of moves where I work the cross as a big rubix cube with one hand pushing and pulling and twisting and bouncing it around my wrist. I'm gonna finish my second one soon as I can. Oh that's gonna be alot of steel to spin not to mention fire.P.S Dangerboy e-mail me at Knagi@apk.net and We can do a list exchange. I got soooooo many verations. I thought I could get lost in the poi but damn in my first night of twirling this thing I almost have twice the moves of my poi.------------------We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonMost Memerable crowd saying "Hey look that dude's gonna set himself on fire again!"

We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC

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