Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Not so long ago I did a show that was for a sucky audience. A part of my fire eating routine deals with fruit and it is the **only** time I use high proof alcohol for anything dealing with fire. So...I used Rum 151 and apples. No problems lighting usually.It wouldn't light to save ou lives. I played it off and handed out the soaked apples to the crowd, as well as my castmates who needed them badly (because of the sucky crowd). We can not figure why they wouldn't light. We even had just the 151 in a dish and it wouldn't light. There was no breeze and it was far from cold. When we got home, we re-checked the bottle, poured some in a dish and Whoosh! Up it went. Anyone have any theories on why it wouldn't light that one time for me?ANNNNND...the staff toss where it spins off the fuel and gets the fireballs rolling. It wouldn't work either...despite the staff was dripping with Kero and had a nice spin for a pretty high toss. Oh well, the people who were watching were impressed with the toss, and that I caught it, though the fireballs would've been nice to get much needed crowd attention.Okay...comments and suggestions....please....
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:mmmmmmmmm, anything to do with evaporation?

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Bummer...sounds like a less than great night.There's one great thing about fuel not lighting...No-one gets burnt!I feel a bit strange saying all this, as I'm certain Pele has been working with fire a lot longer than I have, and I think she knows all this anyway. But we'll see i guess...Ade is on the right track for some of my thoughts as to why it didn't light. I've found that temperature is very very important. Not just the atmospheric temperature, but the temperature of the container you put the fuel into, the temperature of the fuel itself, and the humidity of air as well.If the fuel is cold, and it's humid, it often takes a lot more effort to light.Staff fireballs can fail if its a cold night, not allowing the droplets to ignite when they are spun out, I often let it burn for 3-5 seconds before doing the spin when it's cold.Pouring warm fuel on a cold wick and vice versa can decrease fireballs or even make them fail completely, as can having just dripping fuel on one side of the wick, when you spin it, the fuel gets absorbed by the other half and the ffect is lost.However, these factors hardly ever come together to make things fail on a regular basis. And please note, this is only talking about kero and pegasol (I don't use anything else), but I'm assuming other fuels will react in a simlar way except for the white gases.Let me know if this sheds any light for you...

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NYC_not_PK
NYC_not_PK

One Tyred Guy
Location: Camaiore, Lu, Italy
Member Since: 13th May 2001
Total posts: 203
Posted:Karma
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PK is a god.. i love the Peeekster.

.:PK:. [poiinthepark founder member]


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing smileSTAY SAFE! hug

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Hehehehehe...Mr. Mo...I swear that is what we were saying that night, that because the audience sucked and I wasn't into a show, neither were my toys!
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Anyway, I would say evaporation because it was soooooo hot that night but we had just poured it from the bottle, which had been kept in the shade but not in a cooler. As for the fireball thing..I think it was the Kero I was using, but I admit that because of my not being into the show I might have not rolled the staff when I fueled it up, I honestly don't remember.(I think I am putting a mental block on it subconciously). And in my hurry to get it over I may not have let it burn sufficiently (that 3-5 secs) though my wicks weren't dead cold as I had lit up for about 10 secs before to test my safety. Hmmmm, definitely some things to think about. Thank you. Here's to hoping this was a one time only thing, in all respects of that show!Thanks so much all! Even you Mr.Mo, now I don't feel so stupid for having those thoughts!
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 14 August 2001).]


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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SorchaTheFlaming
member
Location: Calgary alberta Canada
Member Since: 26th Jun 2001
Total posts: 235
Posted:hey pele,id agree with the evaporation idea, karma is a close second
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im curious about these "staff" fire balls.how does one create this effect???


Teach tolerance, not competition.
Send food, not bombs.

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Hi Sorcha, there's severalof threads on burnoffs (fireballs) from staffs, the most recent one is called "Double Fire Ball Staff Start" in the MOVES section.It's one of the better named threads, actually describing the content instead of things like "hey help somebody?" and other generics.Email me if you don't quite get the fireball instructions and I'll reword it for you if you like (anyone else, not just Sorcha).Peace, Lurv and dungbeans...------------------Charleshttp://juggling.co.nz[This message has been edited by Charles (edited 30 August 2001).]

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pineapple pete
pineapple pete

water based
Location: melbourne
Member Since: 20th Sep 2004
Total posts: 5125
Posted:arg.
it happened to me last night...
for my first show...
4 times. frown
we had the staff goin for a few seconds, span it up, barley anythin happened. then i was doin my poi, and they kept goin out. but we did some eatin and won the audience back which was kool, but i wana know why it happened


"you know there are no trophys for doing silly things in real life yeah pete?" said ant "you wont get a 'listened to ride of the valkyries all the way to vietnam' trophy"

*proud owner of the very cute fire_spinning_angel, birgit and neon shaolin*

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Dragon7
Dragon7

addict
Location: Aotearoa (NZ)
Member Since: 17th Oct 2003
Total posts: 625
Posted:Were your tools hot? Like red hot, it always helps, i find, to have ur staff blazing before u really go for it. Also the wind factor plays a huge part, i was praticing burnoff all week and had some massive "melt your face atomic cloud" type fire balls at pratice, and at the party it was real windy and i got about 1' horosontal fireballs frown

Poi are bad for going out if they are not hot, maybe try to set them on fire for a min before performance, then "damp towel" them out and resoak them before you perform. I figure it "1st burn" is often the cause, but sometimes ur wicks can soak up water if u leave them out, and that can effect them as well. If they get wet, u need like 5 burns to get them back to normall.

And even if your gear is red hot, some times you can dip them in HOT, and before you can light them again the fuel has evap'ed before u even start.


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darkpoet
darkpoet

Irish
Location: Dallas.........ish
Member Since: 14th May 2003
Total posts: 525
Posted:if you left the alcohol exposed to air for a while that might also be your problem pele....all alcohols have this nasty habit of absorbing water out of the air..and also evaporating...also was it hot that night or was it muggy?? humidity plays a huge role..esp with alcohols absorbing water like they do..

Jesus saves sinners and redeems them for cash and
prizes

Co-Founder of Keepers of Light

Educate yourself about the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Face_NL
Face_NL

addict
Location: Netherlands - Breda
Member Since: 7th Sep 2002
Total posts: 513
Posted:Small note on re-dipping your pois after a warm-up session... Make sure that 1-> your pois had the time to cool a little bit down, or 2-> that you have a big bath of fuel to put the pois in... Because if you dip too hot pois in not enough fuel (even lampoil) you will have a perfect example of spontaneous combustion... <<Just putting this warning here because I thought it wasn't possible untill it happened to me frown>>

but i have a question for Pele: What do you do with burning apples?


|| "Is True Mastery of the Elements But a Dream?" ||

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:hot poi are not that dangerous to re-dip if you use fuel with a high self ignition point like kerosene (self ignition temp = ~250 deg c).
this means the liquid must reach a temperature of 250 degrees before it will ignite without a flame.

however, like mr isil here says, it can happen as poi that have just been burning for the last 5 minutes will be very hot - small dip containers can turn this potential problem into a reality.

cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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