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Agni


member
Location: Bet Oved, Israel

Total posts: 28
Posted:Hi all!I've been doing both single staff and poi for a few months now, and would like to learn double staff.Unfortunately, I don't know anyone who actually does double staff
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Does anyone have any suggestions on how (or where) to learn double staff?Thanks all...


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bec
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

bec

member
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...

Total posts: 521
Posted:If you've been twirling both single staff and poi then I'm sure you'll have enough technique to move into double staff by yourself. At first, just focus on one-handed staff moves like figure-8's and shoulder rolls (in all directions - forwards, backwards, vertical, horizontal, in front, to the side etc etc) and then just practise them in your non-dominant (?!) hand and then when you feel really comfortable with them try combining them with both hands... It does sound easier than it is at first, but you'll find (like everything) it does get easy with practise... Best of luck... I'm trying to talk Elke into doing up some illustrations for a double staff book, but if the first one (technique for single staff) is anything to go by, it could be a while off yet!?!Happy twirling!Love Bec

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Agni


member
Location: Bet Oved, Israel

Total posts: 28
Posted:Thanks Bec!I've already managed to do a few tricks with my short staves, but I still have a problem with making up new moves... I'm used to having my staff switch hands all the time
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Perhaps somebody can give me the adress of a site with good double staff movies?Thanks a lot,Guy


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pj


member
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA

Total posts: 277
Posted:Well, have you checked the double staff moves here on HoP? There are also a bunch of realld good double-staff performances on the Circles of Light video that you might want to check out as well.-p.

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:This is something that really does take practice, especially using your non-dominant arm twice or three times as much as your dominant (Listen to Bec everyone).I do doubles with 1.4 metre staffs
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and did find it difficult to learn new moves at first. It seems that there just isn't room to do anything else.But there definitely is...A few simple tricks is to practice vertical and horizontal spins, as well as underarm catches (looks great when synchronised). Also spinning one in an outstretched hand while moving the other around is another easy variation, as is doing a throw, changing hands and cathing in the other hand.Combining these moves and all the others you've already learnt (and will learn) will give you a huge repetoire in a short period of time.And please let me know of anything you come up with, staff ideas are always welcome here on the board.Best of luck
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------------------Charles Dolbel


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Knagi


member
Location: Brunswick, Ohio

Total posts: 397
Posted:Ahh the wonderful double staff! ACK! Way to much fire I meet up with another staffer this weekend and he let me use one of his for double staffs all i can remember is saying this is WAY to much fire :P however even with no practice at it what so ever, everyone was talkin about it, almost like it was the best thing I was doing during the night, Btw it was 2 5 foot staffs I couldn't do anything but swing them around and look funny doing it :P------------------We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonMost Memerable crowd saying "Hey look that dude's gonna set himself on fire again!"

We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC

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Cantus
SILVER Member since Jul 2001

Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road

Total posts: 15965
Posted:I find that double staff is much easier if you dont (or at least try not to) think about it too much.I discovered this the very first time i picked the second one up. After about 10 minutes, of infuriating whirling and continually smashing myself in the face and across my legs, I decided to revert back to single staff. But I, without noticing, retained the other staff in my left hand. I began with simple figure 8 in front of my body and, as I went to change hands, realised that the staff in my left hand was moving completely independantly. As soon as I noticed this, of course, I couldn't do it any longer and imediately dropped both of them. When i returned to double staff a few days later I found that if I didnt think too hard I was able to do simple tricks and without trying very hard at pull off some quite advanced manuevres.I told one of my friends who does poi about this and she said that, when she first started out, some of her biggest advances were when she "switched off and let the poi take over". This is the ethic that I know try to apply to my double staff work . . . that, and practising for about 3 hours a day
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I lit up my double staffs the other night for the first time and it was quite scary. It was as someone, as already said, way too much fire.
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But I shall practise a lot with 2 and light up again in a few weeks when i am more confident with them.------------------C@ntus


"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Cantus
SILVER Member since Jul 2001

Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road

Total posts: 15965
Posted:BTW Bec,I have a copy of your single staff book and it's wicked. It's been a fantastic help and my twirling has come on in leaps and bounds since i got it.Thanx Babe
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------------------C@ntus


"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Here here on the kudos to Bec on the book. Mine has improved immensely from it as well.
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Thanks Bec and Elke!
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I also second the thinking too much. I also want to add to that putting them down and then coming back to it. Some of the more butt kicking things I have developed/ learned I would practice for days and get nowhere. I would put the toys down in frustration for a few days and the next time I picked up whatever toys it was (and this applies to several for me) I was able to just slide into the frustration causing move. Sometimes seperation is a good thing.
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:guess I should add my bit here....
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I love doubles - I use them 90% of the time. It's difficult to teach people tricks because every person I've seen on doubles is so very unique. My right hand is very dominant, but I've never really found it to be a problem. to everyone I teach, I say "don't think about it - just let your left hand follow".I remind people to do things at different heights - something done in front of the body looks completely different when done above the head. Also spacing of the hands - again in front of body then with arms outstretched.Sorry, I find this really hard to articulate. Hopefully some MPEGs will be on our performance website real soon.


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Cantus
SILVER Member since Jul 2001

Cantus

Tantamount to fatuity
Location: Down the road

Total posts: 15965
Posted:Just recently I've been doing figure-8 at head height with one hand and one at waist height with the other hand. I'm working on a smooth and fluid transition that will enable me to swap hands (so the other hand is at head height etc).The only things I have trouble with is the occasional clash of staff tips and striking the side of my head (because i get cocky and therefore lax - a sharp pain around ear is enough to wake me from my reverie
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) ------------------C@ntus


"I'll carry this....It's harder to spill a hat" - Chellybean
"...like a rabbit caught in a lighthouse?" - Chellybean

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Jeff


member
Location: Los Angeles

Total posts: 1
Posted:With double staff (which should always be shown after single during a performance), the learning curvve is shallow. It takes a long time to master new moves, also to create them. Try translating the POI's split time chase(similar to the weave or split time cross-over). From there make sure you are holding the grip of your left hand's staff near to the left, the right hand to the right of the other staff's grip. From here it is possible to join the staffs in a cross and create a pivot in the centre of the two grips where the staffs meet. This creates a special cross configuration in which you are pushing the staffs in a figure of eight around each other and making a distorting cross.More laterDon't burn yourselves

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G. I. jina


member
Location: in front of my computer

Total posts: 1
Posted:hey ppl i have just latly begain to prod into double staff and i as for moves... wat i did was after mastering one handed moves in both hands i would do the move forwards in one hand and backwards in the other to make a cool move.........this way u can make a load of cool moves. also if u want to change hands try to throw one above u the switch hands with the other staff then catch with open hande....it looks uber cool but is difficult at first

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Oaken


member
Location: Canada

Total posts: 34
Posted:Hey agni..... Keep the faith sister... Ive at staff for years and just recently started doubles.. Im tryin to learn with 2 6 footers...

as I wander off to smash my head off a wall for a little while longer......


One Love, Dont forget.

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Wonders how good Agni is at doublestaff now...quite interesting to see that that first post was over 2 years ago now.

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:quote:Im tryin to learn with 2 6 footers...Just got a thought when I read that... Since the staves are so long, have you ever tried doing flips while holding the staves vertical against the ground? Like, wrap your arms around them and use them as your legs while you flip around.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:be careful for long single staff holding your weight for flipping. unless it has a flexible core like the innercore staves, be prepared for a bent staff.
be careful of the toys yoo love for they have feelins' too


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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FireSpirit
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

FireSpirit

Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
Location: South Lake Tahoe

Total posts: 743
Posted:Oh-oh... My COL 5 entry has my double staff section before my single staff confused O-well It looks good to me, although the night we filmed, I was Low energy and my double proformance (I feel) was Not up to Par! redface

FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!

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FireSpirit
SILVER Member since Mar 2001

FireSpirit

Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
Location: South Lake Tahoe

Total posts: 743
Posted:YOU HAVE 26 FOOT DOUBLE STAFFS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would like to see that! eek

By the way I like your TOOL Quote, Thats one of my Fav Songs!! wink

"I've been crawling on my belly, clearing out what could have been, I've been wallowing in my own confused, insecure delusions..." biggrin


FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:I thnk it was 2 x 6 foot staves...Or are you kidding and I fell for it...

Another thing I found that really helped bring my doubles along was to listen to tracks while spinning with really different beats. Jazz like Linda Hamilton, house, some yucky death metal...it helps to put you in a different zone and makes it easier to break into new stuff...


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* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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Klaymen



Location: Melbourne, Vic.

Total posts: 180
Posted:My 2 cents: I find practising infront of a mirror/reflective window does wonders for improving and creating complicated moves. Makes it much easier to work on symmetry and see what all the moves look like and what you should do to make them work properly.



Thinking about this more, it is probably standard practise to practise infront of a mirror/window for most of you anyway smile, but i thought itd be worth mentioning.



Double-staff rules so much, you need to use your brain a lot more to think about the sync between staffs, also in a way I disagree with the "don't think about it too much" mindset. In some cases it is important to think through what you want to achieve thoroughly, otherwise you'll just end up conking yourself in the lip. The way I practise is to do each half of the move separately, ie what the left staff does, then what the right does, doing it slowly and thinking thoroghly about it. Once ive done that a bit, i do them together and speed it up, and the body takes over from the mind smile.



- Klaymen

EDITED_BY: Klaymen (1086096452)


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mo-seph


mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Total posts: 524
Posted:Yeah, I'm with you on the thinking Klaymen smile

Different people have different learning styles, but I like to be able to break everything down as far as possible, and that means figuring out exactly what's going on. It's harder at first, but it means that later on you have a really solid base to work from. I guess you need a balance between "good for you" stuff and "feels good" stuff.

I sometimes wonder if i'm creeping out my neighbours by staring at their windows, though...


monkeys ate my brain

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Klaymen



Location: Melbourne, Vic.

Total posts: 180
Posted:Hehe, yeah that's it exactly Mo-seph. Once you know how the logistics [how] of the movements work technically, then you can think about whether other moves are possible etc.



My friend is brand new to twirling, and i was telling him about the concepts of beats and cycles(movement returning to where it started), and it really helped his understanding, and I challenged him to do a 1 beat figure 8 and it took him a while to get it but when he did things sorta started clicking. But then again, we are both engineers and have that sort of technical mind :P.



- Klaymen

EDITED_BY: Klaymen (1086180978)


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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3288
Posted:One thing I've found tho, is that ppl who concentrate on the technical side often have a less developed flow/dance style, than ppl who just 'go with it'.

Its easy to break firedancing down into its little tiny pieces, but can you put it back together with soul?? or will it just be a series of little bits all worked out and stuck together in a chain?

I think there is a lot to be said for letting go, and doing stuff without breaking it down...Im afraid that firedancing may just turn into standard juggling. ie stand there, tuck your shirt into your shorts and do the same hardcore tricks over and over with no flow and no soul.

Josh

(not all juggling is like this, but many many practicioners of ball juggling and espcecially club juggling are examples of what I'm talking about).


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Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:Written by: Josh

Its easy to break firedancing down into its little tiny pieces, but can you put it back together with soul?? or will it just be a series of little bits all worked out and stuck together in a chain?


ubblol yoo so funny and enlightened, mr pilgrim!


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Klaymen



Location: Melbourne, Vic.

Total posts: 180
Posted:Fair enough comment josh. I do find I let go when I actually go for a twirling night, but for practising and inventing tricks I do think very technically. Obviously sometimes when I twirl I stop and try to do the move ive just been working on, really thinking about it, but with the repetition it becomes more automatic and fluid and can be worked back into the routine gracefull and skillfully while retaining its spirit smile.

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ben-ja-men
GOLD Member since Jun 2003

ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide

Total posts: 2474
Posted:Written by:
I think there is a lot to be said for letting go, and doing stuff without breaking it down...Im afraid that firedancing may just turn into standard juggling. ie stand there, tuck your shirt into your shorts and do the same hardcore tricks over and over with no flow and no soul.



ya hippy :P


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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mo-seph


mo-seph

enthusiast
Location: Edinburgh, UK

Total posts: 524
Posted:Yeah, I wasn't saying don't go with the flow smile

Having a solid technical base means you get less of the moments when you're happily lost in it until you come up against some situation you don't know how to get out of, or suddenly having to do a really awkward move. And it makes it easier to play with different styles.

But no, never forget to flow! The main reason for technique is to enable you to flow without worrying about it. Every time I spin, though, I'm thankful for the hours I spent getting basic technique down, and that its let me develop and flow in the ways I want to wink

And the only acceptable reason for tucking your shirt in is to stop it falling over your face when you do a handstand biggrin


monkeys ate my brain

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin

Total posts: 2617
Posted:You're also allowed to tuck your shirt into your pants for btb buzzsaws though (not stick I know weavesmiley ).

I agree with Mo-seph though if you've done the hard graft technical wise you're less likely to repeat yourself when you are flowing. I think you're better able to express yourself because you can naturally transition in more haphazard directions (theoretical and physical wink )

I find it very difficult to explain things to my girlfriend though for both poi and stick because she doesn't think about things the way I do. She just has to play until something clicks which is different to me in a nice way. ubblove


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:I'm not sure if I agree, Josh. In some cases it is true, but in others it isn't.

What about the ones who do both? Work on a technical trick until they get it and then and then do some 'soul' dancing and incorpoate it in...

I think you may be looking at the extremes in technicalities, but forgetting the extremes in 'soul', who don't really have many moves at all but still look great...

Apples with Apples if ya know what I mean?


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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Pyrolific
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Total posts: 3288
Posted:I was definitely not forgetting the extreme flow dancers!! Im trying to protect them! I LOVE the flow dancers. I can appreciate well executed technical stuff, but its pretty rare.

One thing I've noticed in my travels is that there is a strong inverse relationship between technicality and dance / characterisation. In that in scenes where the average level of technicality is high, there is a de-emphasis on just dancing and flowing with it.

There is always exceptions, however if you think about it, it is logical. Given a limited amount of time, either you learn to dance with the basic techniques, OR you move on to more technical tricks - without spending time on body flow and character.

Now - Im waiting for everyone to condemn this concept - however all I can say is this is what I've noticed, having visited a *lot* of scenes, and having seen a lot of different twirlers.

Josh


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Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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