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Forums > Technical Discussion > Coloured flames help
Login/Join to ParticipatePosted:Hi!! I'm an italian poi twirler... I've seen in a site some mixes to colour flames; www.geocities.com/firepoiit makes coloured flames adding chemicals to ethanol, methilated spirits or alchol... my problem is that my flame is coloured but it's not strong! I can't do nothing because when i twirl my poi they turn off... how i can make a stronger flame???thanks!! Paolo
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Posted:i live in australia and am very interested in coloured fire which hardware store is it and what costs are involed, your help would be greatly appreciated!! 
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Posted:ok,
so iv got my Potassium Chloride and it dosnt seem to be absorbing in the denatured alcohol, im thinking the grans are to big? does anyone have a way to grind them down?
or
could it be that the flame needs to be really really hot to see an effect becous when i let a small pile of the [censored] burn it seems to take a minet to see some kind of effect (not the effect i wanted)
someone thats done this please HELP
so iv got my Potassium Chloride and it dosnt seem to be absorbing in the denatured alcohol, im thinking the grans are to big? does anyone have a way to grind them down?
or
could it be that the flame needs to be really really hot to see an effect becous when i let a small pile of the [censored] burn it seems to take a minet to see some kind of effect (not the effect i wanted)
someone thats done this please HELP
email me
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Posted:So...from reading all these posts...I gathered:
Never soak your poi/firestaff wicks in lamp oil if you ever want to burn colors...
Only use white oil such as paint remover or some alcohol...
When you use Boric Acid mix it w/ paint remover to get blue solution, then soak your wicks in it...and shazam.
Never soak your poi/firestaff wicks in lamp oil if you ever want to burn colors...
Only use white oil such as paint remover or some alcohol...
When you use Boric Acid mix it w/ paint remover to get blue solution, then soak your wicks in it...and shazam.
~Blessed Be~
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for not replying sooner - it was bunningsgeorgemc
BRONZE Member since Oct 2006
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Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch
Total posts: 2387
BRONZE Member since Oct 2006
Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch
Total posts: 2387
Posted:We now have coloured flame powders available:
http://www.homeofpoi.com/shop/productDetails/Pack-of-colored-flame-powder
We're pretty happy about being able to make coloured flames more accessible to anyone, rather than just people with access to chemicals...
http://www.homeofpoi.com/shop/productDetails/Pack-of-colored-flame-powder
We're pretty happy about being able to make coloured flames more accessible to anyone, rather than just people with access to chemicals...
Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread
I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it. 
Posted:It says flame powder which suggest you just get the chemical, but then it is measured in litres, so is it already dissolved, or do you have to mix it yourself George?
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georgemc
BRONZE Member since Oct 2006
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Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch
Total posts: 2387
BRONZE Member since Oct 2006
Sitting down facing forward . . .
Location: Christchurch
Total posts: 2387
Posted:It's a packet of dry "powder" that you mix in your own locally obtained denatured alcohol.
The powder is a mix of the appropriate chemicals and conditioning salts to make it really work well. Unless you are a chemist, or do a lot of trial and error experimenting, trying to make really good quality coloured flames is not an easy matter. What we have here is a very simple process so you take our sachet of powder and literally just "bung it in" some denatured alcohol and off you go.
There will be an FAQ page coming soon with more complete Q &A's and of course a comprehensive instruction sheet with the product.
The powder is a mix of the appropriate chemicals and conditioning salts to make it really work well. Unless you are a chemist, or do a lot of trial and error experimenting, trying to make really good quality coloured flames is not an easy matter. What we have here is a very simple process so you take our sachet of powder and literally just "bung it in" some denatured alcohol and off you go.
There will be an FAQ page coming soon with more complete Q &A's and of course a comprehensive instruction sheet with the product.
Written by: Doc Lightning talking about Marmite in Kichi's Intro thread
I have several large jars of the stuff. I actually like it... a little. And don't tell anyone I admitted to it.
ElectricBlue
SILVER Member since Feb 2002
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Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra
Total posts: 810
SILVER Member since Feb 2002
Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra
Total posts: 810
Posted:Wow Freaking Rad!!!!!!!
Thanks George.
I'm def going to buy some of that sometime.
Imagine Green Flaming Hula Hoop. Yes!!!!!!!
Thanks George.
I'm def going to buy some of that sometime.
Imagine Green Flaming Hula Hoop. Yes!!!!!!!
I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />
DeletePosted:Hi
let me give you some tips to get differents flames colors .
I never do it by myself, but some friends of mine yes, and visual effect are very nice.
I'm not sure of the correct translation from my own language to english... when possible i"ll give you chemical "symbol"
You can mix these components in a flamable liquid (but I have no rate to give...)
Colors examples :
- Alun de potassium (SCN K ): purple
- Chlorure de calcium (Ca Cl) : Orange
- Chlorure de sodium (Na Cl) : yellow
- Ferricyanure de potassium : Blue
- Sulfate de cuivre (Cu SO4): green
I Hope it will help some of you
let me give you some tips to get differents flames colors .
I never do it by myself, but some friends of mine yes, and visual effect are very nice.
I'm not sure of the correct translation from my own language to english... when possible i"ll give you chemical "symbol"
You can mix these components in a flamable liquid (but I have no rate to give...)
Colors examples :
- Alun de potassium (SCN K ): purple
- Chlorure de calcium (Ca Cl) : Orange
- Chlorure de sodium (Na Cl) : yellow
- Ferricyanure de potassium : Blue
- Sulfate de cuivre (Cu SO4): green
I Hope it will help some of you
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Posted:aaaaaaaa
the fire dyes (from Home of Poi) didn't work
I dissolved it in methylated spirit ( put even more then I supposed to)
I had new wick on my fans
I soaked my fans (kevlar wick) for a while (an hour)
At first I had a problem with Lighting them. Friend suggested that it might evaporated already so I dipped them again and straight after I set the fire on them
and what I have got very weak flame which last maybe 10 s aaaa
and I use 1/2 a l of methylated spirit and whole packet of green dye I'm very disappointed but I still want to investigate why it didn't work
did I have wrong fuel
should I use water for dissolving colour powder
Did the kevlar wicks drink enough the fuel (they were wet but didn't hold the fire)
Does size of the kevlar wicks matters in terms of prolonging time of the burning
(I have quite thin stripe of kevlar folded in half and sown into my fire fan's spokes horizontally)
aaa any suggestions what It will be worth to investigate ?
the fire dyes (from Home of Poi) didn't work
I dissolved it in methylated spirit ( put even more then I supposed to)
I had new wick on my fans
I soaked my fans (kevlar wick) for a while (an hour)
At first I had a problem with Lighting them. Friend suggested that it might evaporated already so I dipped them again and straight after I set the fire on them
and what I have got very weak flame which last maybe 10 s aaaa
and I use 1/2 a l of methylated spirit and whole packet of green dye I'm very disappointed but I still want to investigate why it didn't work
did I have wrong fuel
should I use water for dissolving colour powder
Did the kevlar wicks drink enough the fuel (they were wet but didn't hold the fire)
Does size of the kevlar wicks matters in terms of prolonging time of the burning
(I have quite thin stripe of kevlar folded in half and sown into my fire fan's spokes horizontally)
aaa any suggestions what It will be worth to investigate ?
Delete
Posted:Well, while Methylated Spirits give a weak flame compared to White Gas and Paraffin, it should still burn for a minute or 2.
Your wicks might have not soaked enough fuel, you should dip each wick for a few seconds to let it soak up the fuel.
Either way, I find normal flames much prettier, especially with the flame size you get using Methylated Spirit.
Your wicks might have not soaked enough fuel, you should dip each wick for a few seconds to let it soak up the fuel.
Either way, I find normal flames much prettier, especially with the flame size you get using Methylated Spirit.
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Posted:thanks for reply
I will try with bigger wicks they might soaked more fuel
cheers
Agni
ps The natural orange yellow flame is beautiful but I need a bit of unnatural motive to enrich my fiery experience
I will try with bigger wicks they might soaked more fuel
cheers
Agni
ps The natural orange yellow flame is beautiful but I need a bit of unnatural motive to enrich my fiery experience
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Tide
GOLD Member since Jun 2009
Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Austr...
Total posts: 111
GOLD Member since Jun 2009
Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Austr...
Total posts: 111
Posted:This may end horribly, so do it at your own risk.
Copper (II) chloride gives you a BRILLIANT blue (or green, depending on who you ask) flame, but hydrochloric acid will increase solubility of the CuCl2 EVEN MORE, giving you EVEN MORE blue.
As said, if you lose a limb or a lung because of this concoction, I'm not liable.
Copper (II) chloride gives you a BRILLIANT blue (or green, depending on who you ask) flame, but hydrochloric acid will increase solubility of the CuCl2 EVEN MORE, giving you EVEN MORE blue.
As said, if you lose a limb or a lung because of this concoction, I'm not liable.
This statement is false...?
DeletePosted:Hi there Agni78. I developed Tribal Neon Flame Dyes and HoP have asked me to respond.
From your post I pick up on a couple of issues that may be problems:
1. If you use twice as much methylated spirit as recommended you will get half as much colour as is possible.
2. If you allow wick to dry out of fuel then it will not burn well or for long, and will not get hot enough to produce good colours.
3. Your wick is the fuel reservoir. If your wick is small your flames will also be small - but so long as there is enough heat in your flame they should still be well coloured.
4. The only reasons I can think of that may have caused you difficulties could be that your poi were wet (with water) beforehand or that your methylated spirit may already contain too much water.
Did you read the information on suitable fuels on the packet? Is the methylated spirit you used actually sold as methylated spirit? Is it fresh or has it been sitting open to the air for a while? It will absorb some water from humid air as well as evaporating away.
You have probably bought one of the following:
5. Pure Methanol (AKA Methyl Hydrate or wood alcohol) is absolutely the best fuel for coloured flame because it gives an almost invisible flame when it burns. This makes it rather dangerous bacause in daylight you don't always know it is lit until you burn your eyebrows and arm hairs off! It is quite poisonous too.
6. Commercial / industrial methylated spirit or denatured alcohol is best. This is often sold as shellac reducer in paint and decorator stores. This is an un-dyed mix of typically 95% ethanol and 5% methanol. It burns cleanly with an almost colourless flame. Like all methylated spirit mixtures it is highly poisonous if consumed.
7. The purple consumer product sold worldwide as "methylated spirits" as a general household solvent. This is normally the same stuff as above but with dye, pyridine, and Bitrex added to identify it and make it smell and taste bad. It can sometimes be diluted with a bit of water to make it cheaper, and this can be a problem for burning.
8. Methylated spirit can also be sold as a stove fuel, but this has other solvents added to it to make the flame burn luminous white for safety reasons. This is not suitable for making coloured flame as the luminosity drowns out any colours.
You will get good results if you use 5, 6, and 7 above. The powder should dissolve cleanly and almost completely in any of these products without adding any water. Make sure you leave it long enough for all the powder to dissolve, especially if the weather is cold. This should take maybe half an hour or so, but overnight should see it all dissolve. We show images and videos of the fuel in use on HoP site. That is what you should see. These are shown at night and as a result are quite brightly colourful. In the day they will look a bit paler.
Good spinning!
From your post I pick up on a couple of issues that may be problems:
1. If you use twice as much methylated spirit as recommended you will get half as much colour as is possible.
2. If you allow wick to dry out of fuel then it will not burn well or for long, and will not get hot enough to produce good colours.
3. Your wick is the fuel reservoir. If your wick is small your flames will also be small - but so long as there is enough heat in your flame they should still be well coloured.
4. The only reasons I can think of that may have caused you difficulties could be that your poi were wet (with water) beforehand or that your methylated spirit may already contain too much water.
Did you read the information on suitable fuels on the packet? Is the methylated spirit you used actually sold as methylated spirit? Is it fresh or has it been sitting open to the air for a while? It will absorb some water from humid air as well as evaporating away.
You have probably bought one of the following:
5. Pure Methanol (AKA Methyl Hydrate or wood alcohol) is absolutely the best fuel for coloured flame because it gives an almost invisible flame when it burns. This makes it rather dangerous bacause in daylight you don't always know it is lit until you burn your eyebrows and arm hairs off! It is quite poisonous too.
6. Commercial / industrial methylated spirit or denatured alcohol is best. This is often sold as shellac reducer in paint and decorator stores. This is an un-dyed mix of typically 95% ethanol and 5% methanol. It burns cleanly with an almost colourless flame. Like all methylated spirit mixtures it is highly poisonous if consumed.
7. The purple consumer product sold worldwide as "methylated spirits" as a general household solvent. This is normally the same stuff as above but with dye, pyridine, and Bitrex added to identify it and make it smell and taste bad. It can sometimes be diluted with a bit of water to make it cheaper, and this can be a problem for burning.
8. Methylated spirit can also be sold as a stove fuel, but this has other solvents added to it to make the flame burn luminous white for safety reasons. This is not suitable for making coloured flame as the luminosity drowns out any colours.
You will get good results if you use 5, 6, and 7 above. The powder should dissolve cleanly and almost completely in any of these products without adding any water. Make sure you leave it long enough for all the powder to dissolve, especially if the weather is cold. This should take maybe half an hour or so, but overnight should see it all dissolve. We show images and videos of the fuel in use on HoP site. That is what you should see. These are shown at night and as a result are quite brightly colourful. In the day they will look a bit paler.
Good spinning!
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Tide
GOLD Member since Jun 2009
Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Austr...
Total posts: 111
GOLD Member since Jun 2009
Future pyrotechnician...? Or something.
Location: Sydney, New South Wales, Austr...
Total posts: 111
Posted:I disagree with 7, recently I've tried dissolving stuff into mineralised methlylated spirits (purple stuff) and it's hard to dissolve anything compared to normal methylated spirits (which is hard enough as is) in, really.
This statement is false...?
DeletePosted:Personally I don't favour the purple stuff either, but it is the easiest product for people to buy.
I'm not sure what you mean by "mineralised". In most countries the purple stuff is denatured alcohol (as per my previous post) with just dye (to colour it), pyridine (for bad smell), and Bitrex (to make it taste evil). None of these is mineral based, and all are present in very small amounts, so should not affect the flammability or solvency of the product. The only exception is water, which can be added (unscrupulously) to make it cheaper. Water will help dissolve the salts but will lower the flame temperature and burn rate and hence reduce the flame colour. Water should not be present in countries with good regulations however.
The problem that most people would not appreciate sufficiently is that you are trying to dissolve a metal salt into a solvent that does not want to dissolve salts. This severely limits the range of potential salts that will dissolve into any alcohol mix. For hydrocarbons the problem is substantially worse, which is why you can't colour kerosene flames with metals.
I'm not sure what you mean by "mineralised". In most countries the purple stuff is denatured alcohol (as per my previous post) with just dye (to colour it), pyridine (for bad smell), and Bitrex (to make it taste evil). None of these is mineral based, and all are present in very small amounts, so should not affect the flammability or solvency of the product. The only exception is water, which can be added (unscrupulously) to make it cheaper. Water will help dissolve the salts but will lower the flame temperature and burn rate and hence reduce the flame colour. Water should not be present in countries with good regulations however.
The problem that most people would not appreciate sufficiently is that you are trying to dissolve a metal salt into a solvent that does not want to dissolve salts. This severely limits the range of potential salts that will dissolve into any alcohol mix. For hydrocarbons the problem is substantially worse, which is why you can't colour kerosene flames with metals.
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