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Posted:Hi!! I'm an italian poi twirler... I've seen in a site some mixes to colour flames; www.geocities.com/firepoiit makes coloured flames adding chemicals to ethanol, methilated spirits or alchol... my problem is that my flame is coloured but it's not strong! I can't do nothing because when i twirl my poi they turn off... how i can make a stronger flame???thanks!! Paolo

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Supafly
TNT
Location: Charlotte, NC
Member Since: 27th Apr 2001
Total posts: 173
Posted:My friends work at the chemisty labs for one of the universities here. Not sure if they sell it retail in stores or not. Sorry. NYC would probably know the answer to that one though.

Fear the evil monkey!

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Sorry dude, I've said it a few times before. My suppliers only sell to schools, they get tax breaks and stuff. Search the internet to find a chemical supplier that will sell to you. That'd be my best advise...

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Tedward
Tedward

member
Location: LA,CA, USA, SOL3, Milky Way, A...
Member Since: 9th Dec 2001
Total posts: 30
Posted:Retryed the Oran juice idea and it didn't work. We're working on decellerants now...

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Orin
member
Location: NYC
Member Since: 14th Dec 2001
Total posts: 36
Posted:Right, well after reading this all..Potassium Nitrate is an oxidizer. You can get it at you local store in the pharmacy, it's often sold under the name saltpetre. I often used to make smoke bombs out of the stuff... This stuff is a POWERFUL oxidizer (also has some undesirable side effects men, so don't eat it.. if you know what i mean ;P )But, when mixed with a fuel (I would use sugar for the smoke bombs in a 3:1 ratio) it burns with a bright purple blue flame that's kinda smattered with orange bits (looks neat) that's very hard to put out. You can also make a super saturated solution and soak cotton string in it to make slow burning wicks.The only drawback i can forsee in using it for firespinning is this, it burns VERY hot.. like i said strong oxidizer. Although not as powerful an oxidizer as Potassium Perchlorate (never used that outside a lab myself...), it is also much safer, being much less sensitive to static charge and friction. Can spontaneously ignite if a mixture containing it and Aluminum powder becomes wet (known as the "Aluminum/Nitrate Reaction").Be careful playing with the stuff.-orinPS: do NOT under ANY circumstances use a potassium nitrate mixture in any way that it could come under pressure... simply put.. oxidizer + fire + pressure = BIG boom.PPS: in case you don't know what an oxidizer is... Oxidizers are chemicals that release oxygen when they are heated, or during the burning process. Generally, they are not flammable themselves, but when mixed with a fuel (such as Sulfur or Aluminum, for example), they promote rapid & vigorous burning when ignitedPlay with fire, but play safe.[This message has been edited by Orin (edited 15 December 2001).][This message has been edited by Orin (edited 15 December 2001).]

Once I cut my hand, but the wound was not part of me.
Now I'm a man, there's a wound at the heart of me.

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phuzzz
member
Location: saltspring island, bc , kanada
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 160
Posted:what would be a good fuel base for that? petrols, or meths?cause i got the saltpeter... i just dont want to waste it.[This message has been edited by phuzzz (edited 15 December 2001).]

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Orin
member
Location: NYC
Member Since: 14th Dec 2001
Total posts: 36
Posted:Phuzz: Potassium Nitrate is virtually insoluble in methanol. As for petrol (gasoline I'm assuming) I'm not positive.. never tried...Don't mix with diesel... again.. boom.. :\I know that it's extremely soluble in water however, so lacing ones wicks (I'd do a test with towel wicks first) may work. Also.. you said you didn't want to waste your supply... well I wouldn't worry about that, it's relatively easy to obtain..You can usually get three kinds.. Chemical Grade, Fertilizer and Stump Remover.. most people can't get the Chemical grade.. which is essentially the same as medical saltpetre.Fertilizer grade, typically consisting of 98-99% potassium nitrate. Sold as inexpensive 14-0-45 fertilizer. Used to increase nitrate levels in soils...Stump-remover. Sometimes you can find KN03 in products used to accelerate the decomposition of tree stumps. The amount of potassium nitrate present in this product will vary from brand to brand... but i really suggest against using this... due to additives the companies may add.. pesticides/herbicides.. poisions and other icky stuff :\-Orin

Once I cut my hand, but the wound was not part of me.
Now I'm a man, there's a wound at the heart of me.

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hairsmythe
member
Location: Oakland, CA
Member Since: 18th Sep 2002
Total posts: 20
Posted:I tried pure potassium sulfate with towel wicks and denatured alcohol. It changed the color of my flame to an orangish-pinkish tone. Most people said it looked a lot like a toasted marsh mellow! No purple though very disappointing! I am about to try table salt NaCl.....does anyone know if this will work (other than theoretically) for bright yellow?

Love ,
Laura (aka hairsmythe)

BTW My towel wicks which I made with home depot terry towels and the instructions found on this site worked fabulously....I have to say the flame was bigger and brighter (however toasted marsh mellow) than all of my friends kevlar wicks. Held together really well and I think the life was prolonged because I snuffed them out with a wet towel!


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hairsmythe
member
Location: Oakland, CA
Member Since: 18th Sep 2002
Total posts: 20
Posted:I tried pure potassium sulfate with towel wicks and denatured alcohol. It changed the color of my flame to an orangish-pinkish tone. Most people said it looked a lot like a toasted marsh mellow! No purple though very disappointing! I am about to try table salt NaCl.....does anyone know if this will work (other than theoretically) for bright yellow?

Love ,
Laura (aka hairsmythe)

BTW My towel wicks which I made with home depot terry towels and the instructions found on this site worked fabulously....I have to say the flame was bigger and brighter (however toasted marsh mellow) than all of my friends kevlar wicks. Held together really well and I think the life was prolonged because I snuffed them out with a wet towel!


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Sabine
member
Location: Australia
Member Since: 19th Sep 2001
Total posts: 29
Posted:Morning all,
Lithium Chloride does a nice burgandy colour but it's a little hard to get hold of - it's an anti-depressant. Cupric chloride does a nice strong green. I usually make saturated solutions in methylated spirits with both of these to soak my wicks in. The bonus is that after they're dry, I can use kero and still get the colour. The colour lasts about 15 hours (no idea how many burns).
Potassium nitrate is soluble in water. I'd suggest making up the solution, soaking your wicks and letting them dry. The wick should absorb the salt making it possible to use your fuel of choice when you light up.


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Hecatonchires
member
Location: Wollongong, Australia
Member Since: 1st Oct 2002
Total posts: 45
Posted:Has anyone tried making a paste, perhaps petroleum jelly + salt of your choice, and smearing on top end of your poi? Centrifugal force should keep it from flying off an sticking to someone. That would be a bad thing - would be a bit like napalm I imagine. If its on the top [inside of swing]. Havent really graduated to flame yet, so I havent tried this idea.

--Luke

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:*** BUMP ***

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:I just found this ...

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ducky2108
ducky2108

A little bit of a board whore
Location: Glasgow
Member Since: 18th Dec 2005
Total posts: 147
Posted:I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

It's all based on the physics of flame tests, that you did at school in chemistry.

http://chemistry.allinfoabout.com/features/flametest.html
br>
This has a list of salts, and the "colour active" component. Most of these salts won't dissolve in anything but water though. That's your major problem with salts; they need polar solvents to dissociate and dissolve, and methanol just ain't polar enough. Petrol, parrafin and diesel are useless for this.


Ancient wiseman say "It is very strange person, who, when left alone in room with teacosy, does not try it on"

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Um... why are you saying it again again?

wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:To show off presumeably wink

and wow.. loks at that NYC.. what a wippersnapper he used to be.. wink
His second post is probably the most important thing to know about coloured flames.


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Flaeyr_Munklefist
Flaeyr_Munklefist

newbie
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Member Since: 19th Mar 2006
Total posts: 24
Posted:The only problem I've run into with colored flames is the fact that all chemicals that alter the color release fumes much more toxic than typical fuel smoke. Use with caution my friends.

The chemistry here is fairly sound, if a bit overly complex. While hydrogen bonding is present, for example, it is an extraordinarily weak bond. It could not prevent combustion.

Those using lower temperature fuels like lamp oil/kerosene, realize that certain color changing chemicals require a high amount of energy in order to excite electrons to the higher shells to release color. Green is more standard than other colors because it's activation energy is lower. Some colors will only be visible with white gas, which burns at a higher temperature.

Good luck for now; if I can get some work out of the way, I might be able to review a few articles and see if I can't find some harder numbers for everyone.


There was once a man who dreamt he was a butterly, and when he awoke, he wished he would wake again to find his wings.

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ducky2108
ducky2108

A little bit of a board whore
Location: Glasgow
Member Since: 18th Dec 2005
Total posts: 147
Posted:I said it again because it was quicker than finding the original post I posted it too, and I personally am not a fan of having to click link after link to get to a useful post.

It's all about personal preference really.


Ancient wiseman say "It is very strange person, who, when left alone in room with teacosy, does not try it on"

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alien_oddity
alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees
Member Since: 31st Dec 2004
Total posts: 7193
Posted:hmmmmmmmm i may be off topic here but i remember putting pottasium permanganate into a flame with some very nice coloured flames as a result.


i don't know if there any chemical restrictions on this substance or not but would like to know


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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Is pottasium permanganate restricted?

wink


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Ewokki
Member

Member Since: 21st Jan 2006
Total posts: 30
Posted:Health Rating: 3 - Severe (Life)

Flammability Rating: 0 - None

Reactivity Rating: 3 - Severe (Oxidizer)

Contact Rating: 3 - Severe (Corrosive)

Lab Protective Equip: GOGGLES & SHIELD; LAB COAT & APRON; VENT HOOD; PROPER GLOVES

Storage Color Code: Yellow (Reactive)



Fire:

Not combustible, but substance is a strong oxidizer and its heat of reaction with reducing agents or combustibles may cause ignition. Contact with oxidizable substances may cause extremely violent combustion.

Explosion:

Strong oxidants may explode when shocked, or if exposed to heat, flame, or friction. Also may act as initiation source for dust or vapor explosions. Contact with oxidizable substances may cause extremely violent combustion. Sealed containers may rupture when heated. Sensitive to mechanical impact.





Probably not the best thing to use...

EDITED_BY: Ewokki (1143553352)


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alien_oddity
alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees
Member Since: 31st Dec 2004
Total posts: 7193
Posted:i'll re-phrase my last post.:nerr:


i was at school and in one science lesson the teacher showed us what happened wow


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albotross
albotross

member
Location: nsw, gunnedah
Member Since: 30th May 2006
Total posts: 52
Posted:i recently found a website that sells fuel to give of coloured flame, safe and easy. i asked them if they had tried kevlar, and if it would work on my poi. they haddent the foggiest wat i was on about. i dirrected them here, so ill keep you posted as to the out come. (unless they get to you first, in which case, remember that i sent them here! lol)

The nite is nearly over, day is almost here. Romans 13:12

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Yakumo
Yakumo

veteran
Location: Oxfordshire
Member Since: 31st May 2006
Total posts: 1237
Posted:no comment on safety, but here's a pretty demo of the possibilities smile




Blinded by Hyperlights, please donate generously grin

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:I recently discovered in a local hardware store, fuel for sale that gives flames in the colours of red, yellow, green and blue...

this post is probably only useful if you live in australia


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phyrepsy
phyrepsy

Member
Location: washington
Member Since: 23rd Jun 2007
Total posts: 5
Posted:I HAVENT TRIED IT YET, BUT I believe A 3:1 OF WHITE GAS : BLEACH-purple?????

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phyrepsy
phyrepsy

Member
Location: washington
Member Since: 23rd Jun 2007
Total posts: 5
Posted:ALSO------ACETONE = A MORE ORANGY RED WITH A NEON BLUE CORE!!!sry to post twice let me know if these actually work!!!!

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ElectricBlue
ElectricBlue

Now with extra strawberries
Location: Canberra
Member Since: 11th Feb 2002
Total posts: 810
Posted:I'm not sure what the bleach and white gas would do but Im pretty sure you should not be mixing bleach with any thing unless you are a chemist and really freaking know what you are doing.



Bleach mixed with certain substances can spontaneously combust.


I {Heart} hand me downs and spinning in the snow.<br /><br />

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squarefish
(...trusty steed of the rodeo midget...)
Location: the state of flux
Member Since: 23rd Sep 2002
Total posts: 403
Posted:ALSO----RANDOM CAPITAL letters and words read like SHOUTING!, and nobody likes SHOUTY PEOPLE at ALL,

No they don't, do they?


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poinoob
member
Location: louisianna, new orleans
Member Since: 17th Oct 2007
Total posts: 45
Posted:has anyone tried titanium flake some research has told me that it works well with kero or lamp oil doesnt change the color but adds a nice sparkle effect to ur poi with out the dangers off wire wool only problem is u gotta go thru fireworks supplier but is perfectly legal in all countries to posses as far as i know

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Fire_Moose
Fire_Moose

Elusive and Bearded
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Member Since: 2nd May 2007
Total posts: 3597
Posted:there was a thread about titanium flake....

http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/showflat/-Titanium-flake-369186


Now, i heard that titanium, when in small slivers and pieces, is Pyrophoric. Can any one confirm or deny?


O.B.E.S.E.

Owned by Mynci!

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