Big Daddi-Yo
member

Member Since: 24th Apr 2001
Total posts: 21
Posted:For you experianced fire-breathers...I'm getting into fire-breathing. I haven't started yet, but I sure am interested! My dad said I can't start until I get some info on the dangers of diseases/medical conditions. Can I get a type of mouth cancer if I use kerosene? Can I get any other medical condition if I use kerosene? Thanks!~Derrick

Wow! Check out this bagel I found behind my refridgerator!

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BEZERKER
BEZERKER

enthusiast

Member Since: 29th Apr 2001
Total posts: 237
Posted:Big D,Fuels are carcinogenic and apparently can lead to cancer in some cases BUT so does just about every artificial flavouring and additive. If you're gonna do it, don't do it EVERY day, save it for special occasions. Me, I was self taught. Someone explained to me that the idea is to blow (not spit, this is very important) as hard as you can with just a small amount of fuel in your mouth, ie just a sip NOT a mouth full!!Never do it in windy situations, always check for where the breeze is coming from and try to blow the same direction as the wind.I had an experience last week where some 'wanna be' poi twirler tried to lecture me about how "all it takes is you to breath inwards and you'll die!!". I nearly laughed in her face. The idea is to blow OUTWARDS as hard as you can and she's warning me about breathing in
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People will lecture and warn and tell you "You can die man!!!" but as long as you respect the fact that you are BREATHING FIRE and show it the respect and concentration it deserves you should be right. Start with small amounts of fuel in your mouth. You'll soon realise that it isn't the kind of thing you want to do often (fuel burps for the rest of the night id never a good thing
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)Anyway check out Mephisto's web site: www.fyretr.com for what I believe is one of the best resources on the web for eating and breathing. Do some solid searches through the links from this website and do some searches on frie breathing through a search engine. There's info out there, just make sure you get as much varied and different opinions as possible before you make the choice to do it. Then, have fun.
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BEZERKER
BEZERKER

enthusiast

Member Since: 29th Apr 2001
Total posts: 237
Posted:I forgot to mention, look at the video file of the STUPID dude breathing for his mates. He's still got fuel on his face and the results serve as a good example of what can happen when you're careless.I'm sure he'll think twice before he tries that again.

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Big Daddi-Yo
member

Member Since: 24th Apr 2001
Total posts: 21
Posted:Thanks a lot! That's just what I needed to know!~Derrick

Wow! Check out this bagel I found behind my refridgerator!

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Big Daddi-Yo
member

Member Since: 24th Apr 2001
Total posts: 21
Posted:Are there any non-carcinogenic fuels available?~Derrick

Wow! Check out this bagel I found behind my refridgerator!

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:FyrEtr (Mephisto) is a good BEGINNING source but he leaves alot out of the details, that and it is a friend of his that does the site not him per se (I work Ren's so I know these things). Yes, all fuels are carcenogenic. Lamp oil is better then kerosene which is better than white gas. Other than that, no fuel types should even be thought of. Disease and health risks....first off Berzerker...breathing in is a danger! Since breathing is automatic and you inhale through your nose, you get a sinus burn, you can also inhale once you've finished breathing out and if you don't step back there is a risk of the flames closest to your face being sucked in...I have seen it from professionals, which btw, I do fire breathe for audiences and for fun. It is the aspect of fire performing I enjoy the most.Aside from cancer there is also chemical pnuemonia (which Mephisto has had), which is the chemicals from the fuels and the fumes get into your lungs and essentially burn/close the alvioli at the end of the capillaries...which do not regenerate once harmed. This can result in long term hospitalization, asthma, emphasima and other respiratory issues. Also in addition to cancer of the mouth there is a chance at chemical poisoning in your bloodstream (if you have any open mouth injuries), ulcers and digestive issues, kidney and liver failure...all due to chemical buildup in your system. And you will eventually swallow some by mistake and you will always get some in your system, because the oil residue left behind is then washed down little by little by your spit and then goes through your system. If you do swallow fuel your best bet is to swallow some charcoal caplets available at drug stores and discount type stores (Wal-mart and K-Mart). Drink milk or buttermilk before hand, or take a Tums type antacid. These don't eliminate the eventual health risks, but they do cut back on immediate after effects, which can go anywhere from foul tasting fuel burps to nausea/vomiting, stomach cramps and diarrhea.To aspirate properly, vibrate your lips as you would when making a horse noise or "blowing raspberries". Practice with water first, alot. It is harder to aspirate than fuel. Taste the fuel and spit it out. Some people are repulsed by the taste and texture so it is better to try a tiny bit first, so you know what to expect. A shot of liquid will do the trick when actually breathing, any more will cause a dribble. Always wipe your chin before and after.The biggest danger of fire breathing is a blowback, where the flame follows either the fuel (if you fail to aspirate and instead spit a stream of fuel) or the fumes of the fuel (use a high flashpoint fuel to avoid this, like lampoil) back to your mouth. Another very real risk comes from your torch. Be certain to shake off all excess fuel...dripping, flaming fuel has been known to drip down people's arms, drip into faces and in one very odd incedent it dripped on a man's face, he gasped for air, swallowing the white gas he was using as fuel...but the fire caught the vapors aflame and he ended up with internal 3rd degree burns. I have no idea what happened to him. It is something to practice with water first and think about and research long and hard before you do it. I am not a proponent of "horror" stories, Diana will back me on that as I am always countering her health risk speeches (
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) but this is one case where I don't want you to be uninformed at all. I would even venture to say try fire eating first, then breathing.There are very real health risks to this and I think that your laughing at it Berzerker displays an almost careless mentality about it, no offense. Several people have died, they weren't only novices either. Last year a female fire breather by the name Salamandra died due to a fluke and her over confidence with the art, and she had been doing this for 15 years. No one is beyond reproach here.I applaud your responsibility in asking Big Daddy-yo. Besides researching the oral fire arts, also research your fuels and the companies. I did. The more you know the less likely you are to get into trouble with this.Best of luck to you. I find fire breathing enjoyable,amazing and rewarding, not to mention crowd pleasing but you will never know if you like it, and some people don't,until you try! Best of luck.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 22 May 2001).]


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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BEZERKER
BEZERKER

enthusiast

Member Since: 29th Apr 2001
Total posts: 237
Posted:Apologies Pele, no offence taken,Did not want to seem flippant. Merely relating my experience. Being no study, no research and since I'd always 'aspirated' water as a youngster playing in pools no practice. I guess I have a slightly more care free attitude than you BUT I have and always will show the healthiest respect for what I'm doing. The whole 'breath back' issue seems negligable to me simply because I can't envisage myself doing it. Every inch of my being is put in to propelling the fuel outwards. I don't play 'what if' about it either, I mean what if you get hit by a bus. Life's for the loving, however you want to do it.I once bumped in to a guy in Sydney who had healing scabs all over his face and when he saw my fire devil stick felt the need to again lecture me on the hazards. I asked him two questions... 1) Was your mouth full of fuel (he answered yes) 2) were you doing it in windy conditions (he also answered yes). Instantly this showed his lack of respect and forthought into what he was. This stupid approach could only result in disaster. I read your post with great interest as I don't much about the carcinogenic qualities of fuel and to learn is important, but again I have to say I taught myself with logic and care ,which is why I haven't burnt myself and will endeavor to keep it that way. The poisonous qualities of fuel again to me seem logical and therefore should be considered before beginning.I laugh simply because I don't like people assuming that because I enjoy and therefore present myself in a relaxed manner that I A. Don't know what I'm doing and B. Need to be told how dangerous it is. Of course it's dangerous, that's the whole attraction, that's why people enjoy watching.My attutude is also one of self learning. SOMEONE had to figure out how to do this, so why can't I. I'm sorry if this appears unintelligent to you but we all walk our own paths I guess.Anyhow, you'll note I also advised the Big D to do more research and get as much broad info as he could which I still do till this very day too.Just a little defense and apologies if I seemed negligent in my approach.Big D, listen to Pele and learn what she has to say but also persue more info till you feel comfortable with when you want to breath.

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pj
member
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Member Since: 8th May 2001
Total posts: 277
Posted:Hey Pele... You really need to get that into a web page so Malcom can link to it from HoP!So, a few months back I had the chance to meet with Pele at the ECSF. I was rather excited knowing there was going to be an experienced fire manipulator at the event who I knew was open with her knowledge. She went over all the warnings, dangers, and cautions with me, and, armed with what I felt to be solid knowledge, made the decision to continue anyway.My experience was quite uneventfull. I did it. It looked cool. I didn't blow a big flame, but with practice, I bet I could. But honestly, it really just wasn't that exciting for me, *despite* how much I wanted to add it to my repitiour of skills. In my personal analysis, the benefit for *me* does not outweigh the potential dangers. Personally, I will probably never do it again. I realized the reason I wanted to do it was because it is is so impressive to a crowd. This is unlike poi for me, because I love to do poi even when no one else is watching.So, get all the information you need. Proceed responsibly. If it turns out to be your thing, then great! But do not be surprised if, perchance, it is not all you thought it would be.-p.

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Posted:just out of curiosity, why cant you do it with alcohol or whatever they use in binaca or hairspray or some other flamible substance? or are these carcenogenic as well?

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pj
member
Location: Baltimore, Maryland, USA
Member Since: 8th May 2001
Total posts: 277
Posted:I don't know about the other substances, but I know that you can breathe fire with alcohol if it is strong enough. You will need at least 151 proof stuff, and grain alcohol (190 proof everclear) works even better.There are, however, some very serious problems with the use of alcohol as a fuel.- The most obvious problem is that you will get drunk while performing or practicing. The slight amount you swallow will get you quite drunk and you will even absorb some alcohol through the membraines in your mouth.- A non obvious problem is that alcohol burns with a very dim flame. Unless you have a very dark environment, the flame will be far less spectacular than with lamp oil or kero.- But the most serious problem is the risk of blowback. Alcohol is extremely volitile and flashbacks to your face are a VERY REAL RISK when using alcohol as a fuel. Couple this with the fact that you will get slightly drunk and clumsy while performing and you have a great recipe for disaster.Please, do not use anything other than lamp oil or kerosene when breathing fire. If you can't cope with the taste and terrible mouth feel (imagine your entire mouth coated with chap stick for an hour after blowing) then you shouldn't be doing it.

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Big Daddi-Yo
member

Member Since: 24th Apr 2001
Total posts: 21
Posted:Bad News...My dad informed me that I cannot breathe fire until I am 21 and out of the house. He wouldn't have a problem with it, but the fuel is carcinogenic, and he doesn't want me winding up with cancer. Thank you so much for the info and I know more than I did.~Derrick

Wow! Check out this bagel I found behind my refridgerator!

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Big D, as a parent I think that is responsible of your dad and very responsible of you being so up front and honest with them, that is really awesome in my eyes. Practice your other skills, and blowing with water until then. By the time you try it with real fire you will already be a pro!
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Berzerker...I think it was the flippancy that got to me, no apologies or explainations needed.
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I defintely encourage anyone who wants to try this to try it, within reason of course..meaning with research and such, you and I are in total agreement on this. And as for training, I got a tutorial, not necessarily ten weeks of training. The things I have learned that work and do not work, as well as the little "stunts" I have learned with fire breathing (like, I do breathe in moderate winds...and have even done it down a "wind tunnel", blowing downward, etc) I taught myself or picked up here and there.Redbrother...everything pj said about alcohol is very true. The proof you would need to support a decent blow is very volitile. As for anything from an aerosol can (hair spray, banaca,etc.) If you spray it out of a can, then the flame can and will follow it back to the can causing the can to explode in your hand. It isn't pretty, I have seen it first hand at a college party years ago. As for if you were to take it out of the can and put it in your mouth, ever actually see or feel the stuff? It is amazingly sticky and fairly dense. I am thinking that a) it would be really hard to aspirate properly and b) such things are made of chemicals, and on the bottle they read they are not to be ingested or put into eyes, etc. That tells me that they are most likely carcinogenic or at very least will cause some interesting physical issues other than cancer. My theory (and I have told this to lots of people) is that if you are looking for an easy way out of the fuel/chemical thing, then maybe this isn't for you. Unfortunately, the toxicity of the fuels is a side effect of this particular art. It is something we each have to weigh out for ourselves and then decide if we deem it worth it, like pj said. I truly don't think there is any getting around the dangers though.Oh, and consequently, high proof alcohol is carcenogenic...damaging stomach, liver and kidneys, in addition to causing drunkeness and possible alcohol poisoning. Just because it is legal doesn't mean it is safe.And pj, thanks for the suggestion to get that stuff on our site. We are constructing it at the end of the month, beginning of next month.I hope this didn't sound too much like a sermon!Take care all...happy breathing with and without fuel!
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------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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FireSpirit
FireSpirit

Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
Location: South Lake Tahoe
Member Since: 29th Mar 2001
Total posts: 743
Posted:Pele Showed me her way and taught me the basics. I LOVED IT !!!!!!!!However I do not suggest doining it if yu have a cut or sore in your mouth. My wisdom Tooth was comming in and the oil messes with it. talk about sore for a few days!!
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So thats my advice, have fun and Never Breath IN!SkiChristian


FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!

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TallJuggler
member
Location: Texas, USA
Member Since: 1st Apr 2001
Total posts: 41
Posted:What about colmen camping fuel, I think it is cosidered a white gas. It is how one person showed me and someone else I knew recomended it because it "tastes" better
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.------------------Oh LordForge me in the fire of your mightLet your flames burn higher and brighterMake me pure and holy in your siteAnd cleanse me with thy consuming fire


Oh LordForge me in the fire of your mightLet your flames burn higher and brighterMake me pure and holy in your siteAnd cleanse me with thy consuming fire

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gάrbǿ
gάrbǿ

addict
Location: Bristol / London / Norwich / C...
Member Since: 9th Jan 2001
Total posts: 521
Posted:What about SHELLSOL T
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You would have to ask Draevon for www.incendium.orgabout that one cause I have only ever used it like once and I am not totally sure if its bad for you or not
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peace outgarbo
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------------------ quote:"Be the change"Mahatma Ghandi


be excellent to each other: safe:

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:TallJuggler...Because of the low flashpoint of White Gas, it is much more volitile than most fuels. What this means to a eater/breather is that the fire is hotter and there is a much greater chance of a blowback, where the fire follows the fumes to the mouth. Yes, originally the oral fire arts relied heavily on this fuel but over the course of the past five years or so there has been a shift to the oils. I also want to say that white gas, because of it's viscocity is very hard to fully shake off a tool effectively which has resulted in people dripping into their mouths, down their chins and arms while the fuel was already alight. When it is unexpected it can render some horrible results. For this same reason it is used alot in trailing though. I use it for trailing, cotton balls on the tongue and to quick dunk for a fast light.Also because it is a gas,White Gas is much more toxic than any of the lamp oil/parafin based fuels, and has more fumes and taste. If Kero or lamp oil is swallowed a couple of quick charcoal caps can clear it up no big deal. If white gas is swallowed it is off to the E.R. for a stomach pump. Lamp oil literally has no taste, just if you burp afterwards you can taste it. Kero has a strong moonshine taste, the smell is much worse than the taste. What most people don't like of these two is the oily after feel in the mouth, but you get used to it and a bit of food clears that right up.Anyway peeps, I am working on a FAQ sheet about all this stuff and will be certain to include this in the writing.And for the record.... Citronella is terribly smokey, more smoke than fire, tastes terrible and is difficult to aspirate in my opinion. Shelsoll-T and Firewater are not available here in the U.S, they are Aus fuels, for those who don't know.Hope this helps.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 05 June 2001).]

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:bumping this for Corporal Flame. [This message has been edited by flash fire (edited 02 July 2001).]

HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Now, to throw a spanner in the works, who has experience fire breathing with powder, for example custard powder or cornflour? I've only ever tried it a couple of times, and am aware that there are serious health considerations for this type of 'fuel' as well. Any thoughts?Ade

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:I haven't done it but I have seen it. It is unpredictable. It worked less than half the time, was very messy both on the blowers and on the floor, the flame was more of a burst than anything and wasn't very big or bright, and one of the guys accidentally inhaled some which sent him into coughing fits...which I imagine is more of an issue for the powders than for the oils. AND it was all clumpy and finky in their mouths so they couldn't talk right until after they cleaned their mouths out. That and they had to "measure out" how much they put in their mouths instead of just taking a swig. Benefits are no icky, oily after feel/taste and it's easier to transport.Personally, I'll stick to liquids.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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carpe_nox
carpe_nox

member

Member Since: 13th Dec 2001
Total posts: 13
Posted:Ok, I love the flaming arts, and just like you, my interest did go towards fire breathing. I saw it once off poi (which im sure we have all seen) and it look amazing. now, my best mate got into it, and i have been thinking about learning off her, we were discussing various fuels, when we were approached and warned about the dangers that are involoved in fire breathing. all fuels are carcinogenic, there is no correct fuel that you can use. The main difference is that some burn at diff temperatures, and some burn faster then others. So if you are going to do it, research your fuels, such as alcohol will create a short blue overly hot burst, which is very dangerous and quite useless to impress ppl. Mixing chemicals are another danger, unless you know what you are doing, and are a professional, it shouldnt be done, for a start if you were to put various chemicals into a container, they wont mix, they will burn at differnt times, and will emit different gas's, these can be very dangerous, so for gods sake dont do it.If you were to go back 100 odd years, and wanted to join the circus, fire breathing was the bottom of the barrel job, it was for ppl that were un-cordanated, or were 'simple', the 'normal' healthly ppl were acrobats, etc. if you were to walk into the circus, you wouldnt look at the breather as some great attraction, you would actually look at them as a useless side show.Its sad but true.Some of the dangers involved with putting fuel into your body are huge. For a start, if cancer is hereditary in your family, dont even consider it, fuel will distroy brain, kidney, liver cells, which can bring on cancer, and other various diseases. I cant stress enough how bad fuel is, it goes through your body and tares it up. I am aware that you can actually have lessons to breathe, they dont inform you of the dangers and risks involved either, so if this isnt careless/reckless behavior it is criminal.Another thing you have to look at, is your age, if you are younger then 21, your organs arent fully developed, so you are at greater risk of doing more damage. Which will shorten your life. Do you know any old fire breathers? if you breathe for much longer then 5 years then you may as well have written your will, because the effects of these chemicals are that serious, and will work that fast.You may ask why are there professionals then, which is a good question, for a start these ppl have insurance, so if something does go wrong then they are ok, and for a second, they are over 21 and know what they are doing. So please take care if you are going to breathe, or twirl for that matter, there are lots of dangers involved and risks that are taken. So if you still arent convinced that you shouldnt do it, at least do your research, as with everything, have a good idea of whats going on with your body, and know what may happen. take care abd have fun.

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Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Ade:
Now, to throw a spanner in the works, Yikes!


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Actually, re-reading through this thread was interesting for me in many ways.
I am also surprised at the fact that I held my tongue with CN's response above, because it is so full of misguided "facts" I don't even know where to start.

And now, after having had my accident, I can give first hand accounts to everything, and I still fully believe in all I have said.

And Spanner, we wouldn't throw you in the works, maybe a pool full of jello...but not the works!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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