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Forums > Social Chat > Dress America (Please Read!)

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MystikDancer


member
Location: MD, USA

Total posts: 118
Posted:Tomorrow America will be dressed in Red, White, And Blue. Bring America together, we WILL prevail! Dress in as much Red, White, And Blue as you can, and walk with pride. Pass this message on to as many as you can. Determination and teamwork will unite us.Please so as much as you can to unite our country in this crisis. Support us, and help us discover who is behind this terrible assult.-=M-D=-

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:WHAT!!??They're asking you to dress in your national colours for what reason exactly??Do they honestly think the inhabitants are that stupid and lack so much foresight as to unwittingly be herded together in a last ditch attempt at colour co-ordinated patriotism as a show of bravado and unity? I can't believe it. Are the masses of middle america so stupid as to allow themselves to be brainwashed into a "fight for unity and all-american goodness" as opposed to questioning their government and ensuring the correct actions are taken in response to todays terrorism?It's almost like a lynch mob mentality - find a common cause (in this case the cause is patriotism) and the flock will blindly follow.

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Frenzie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 515
Posted:*bows to Flash's infinte wisdom*

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

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TallJuggler


member
Location: Texas, USA

Total posts: 41
Posted:I think it is a cool Idea. Show the world that we are not hurt. I would wear them to remember those that are lost. Flash: You just lost some major cool points there. Insulting a nation and some ones idea when they are down. I would return the insult but I was taught it is wise to respect others ideas, religion and nationality.

Oh LordForge me in the fire of your mightLet your flames burn higher and brighterMake me pure and holy in your siteAnd cleanse me with thy consuming fire

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Flash, welcome to American sociology 101.Patriotic bravado gives the illusion of unity and in unity there is comfort, especially in a time when so many are left feeling so helpless yet longing to do something more. MystikDancer, I do not know from whence the idea came and I am certain it was founded with good intention but wearing the colors of the flag that most don't even know what they symbolise anymore to show unity for a country that preaches freedom and yet throughout its history has consistently displayed oppression with a patriotic guise is really not a way to help. Instead give those clothes to the Red Cross. Donate blood, or money or a blanket. Tie a yellow ribbon around a tree. Light a candle and say a silent prayer or thought for all those lost and in hopes no more lives need be lost before this is settled. If you must fly your American flag proudly then do so at half mast in memorium. Most importantly, don't dwell but don't forget either. It is in our humanity that our strengths lie, not in our nationality.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Posted:I think that a nation wide show of solidarity and respect is a good idea.I think I'd rather it have been a black arm band, however - calling patriotism is inciting war IMHO.If a major war starts, the numbers of innocent dead will make those who died in this atrocity look like a drop in the ocean.Josh

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:TJ - it's a bigger picture than that. I'm not insulting your nationality - I'm questioning the concensus of a nation. And who's idea was this anyway? It didn't come from the general population - all these things are orchestrated by powers that control.To show you're not hurt? But you *are* hurt! I am hurt. The world is hurt. This is a major move and I think that by trying to wash over the real issues by mobbing together under the banner of patriotism is the wrong way to deal with it. Pride is always a downfall.Sorry if I have insulted anyone. I guess I'm just saying that people need to look at the big picture and question motivation as opposed to blindly accepting and following. Damn the man. Save the empire.

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TallJuggler


member
Location: Texas, USA

Total posts: 41
Posted:People did this because of what we believe in: Freedom. They tried to take that dream away, that is how they are trying to hurt us. As far as people and commerce we are hurt. But strong enough to get through it as long as our thirst for blood and vengence dosen't overtake us. The Red, White and Blue colors may be over board, I would perfere an armband as well, since I don't have red white and blue clothes.Flash: what do you mean by powers in control?

Oh LordForge me in the fire of your mightLet your flames burn higher and brighterMake me pure and holy in your siteAnd cleanse me with thy consuming fire

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Frenzie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 515
Posted:You think they did this out of spite because "they couldnt go to the beach tihs year"From where I stand this is an obvious outcry from a people in trouble who need to go to these depths to try and get a solution for what they feel is the real problem.Dont be selfish enough to think they did it out of spite.

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

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Frenzie
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 515
Posted:I hate to break it, but a lot of countries outside of the US do not respect America.Alot of countries hate AmericaFor reasons that it appears a lot of you will never understand, nor try to.I urge everyone to have a look at the big picture and read into how America interacts with countries in the middle East.... its ethics, or lack there of in some incidents.I mean no disrespect to Americans as a whole, but step outside for a little while, you might be shocked.I respect Pele because she seems to have the ability to look from outside and not just be angry at what has happened

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:TJ - by 'powers in control' I was referring to those who shape public opinion; those who shape your opinion.May I ask how you know that the terrorists were reacting to USA's bill of Freedom? Are you implying that you know the who and they why of todays attacks? Maybe I'm out of the loop - did they figure out who did this?I hope I haven't come across as being too callous. I have been thinking of nothing else since 2am Oz time - this situation has me in knots. My heart and feelings go out to all those who are suffering.

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Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
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MystikDancer


member
Location: MD, USA

Total posts: 118
Posted:Understand that this was an idea spawned by students in a school, STUDENTS, not the government. In a time of crisis and shock, when even I am frightened by the sound of an air craft overhead, we need to be calm. We need to remember what we represent, and we need to stand behind our country and our government, not insult our own government.I WILL wear the colors tomorrow, and think of all the people who suffered. I will fly the flag at half-mast, and I will be calm.True I was not born here, but I have lived in America most of my life.Pele- I can't donate blood, I don't have a black armband. I will wear a yellow ribbon if I can find one, and maybe find something to donate.[This message has been edited by MystikDancer (edited 12 September 2001).]

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:we must not go out in "blind vengence". (read my post in "new york is on fire" for further details). I think I will try and find some cloths that have those colors. And they do mean something...The Great Seal of the United States:Red: the color of the BLOOD shed by our ansestors who freed us from Great Britian (and shed by many people today)... symbolizes hardiness and valor.White: the color of purity and innocence.Blue: vigilance, perseverance, and justice.Stars: symbolize the states, but also..."the star is a symbol of the heavens and the divine goal to which man has aspired from time immemorial"Stripes: symbolic "of the rays of light eminating from the sun." These are things we need right now.PEACE and LOVE Daniel[This message has been edited by santanatwo (edited 12 September 2001).]

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Maelstrom


Maelstrom

member
Location: Akron, Ohio

Total posts: 135
Posted:I would just like to remind everyone posting on this thread, that seem to be taking everything personally, that the reason you post or even look at this sight is because of a common art form, glowsticks or fire poi. You all enjoy the some thing at one level or another. You all seem to be babbling about things you know nothing about, and idea's that you have not personally had to physical defend. When it comes right down to it, no one, I mean no one has the right to take another's life. How would any of you feel if someone, who is active with in this community, died. Wrapped in the middle of an event they personaly had nothing to do with. No matter the out come of these current events, in the end it will all boil down to money. So instead of fighting over ideas, Take a moment to think about the people that soon will be fighting to defend thier homes and thier lives, and those of us that are going to be called upon to fight a battle we did not start, kill people we don't know, for a reason that not one of us well ever completely understand or agree with. Lets keep on the subject that this sight was designed for because at the moment it may be the only thing helping some people keep it together. If you want people in the United States to wear colors, then pick the members names located in the U.S. and e-mail them personally. Because there is a global community on this sight, not everyone wants to hear about it. And remeber some of the people who read the sight,(and didn't always post) maybe more wrapped up in the situation then any of you could ever know. So unitl you've been ordered to take a life, or be willing to sacrific yours, please stick to why we are all here. Morn in privet for all the destruction to life and planet that is about to take place. (and don't forget everyone has chemical weapons and they don't stick to just the battle field. We are all in danger.)

Nothing good ever comes from hanging out with normal people.

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s-p-l-a-t


member
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia

Total posts: 383
Posted:I have to agree with flash...What do they teach people in schools over there?? Surely religion comes well ahead of patriotism? It is a country... with a lot of people. And there are many countries with lots of people. We are all people. Why are they not joining in a united 'praying'/'centering' ceremonies instead of concerns with blending into a flag's colour combination?If it makes people feel better I'm all for it.... don't get me wrong.. I just think there are better, more comforting ways of doing it than looking like the American flag.I feel for everyone touched by the incident.

The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:We have seperation of church and state here, only a moment of silence allowed, not prayer. But then, didn't this start because our government got involved in someone else's religious struggles? Ahhhhh America, gotta love it.Maelstrom, if you are one of the ones called to alert, or one of your loved ones, then I feel for you truly. I too have friends who were called to ready on this. No one is happy about it. We all, even those over seas, know people in NYC or Afghanastan, or in the military or are somehow involved. This is the social section where off-spinning topic threads are allowed and this one is needed. People globally need to talk of this, to share and even to vent in order to begin to heal over something we will probably never understand. This forum is here for that as well. No one is intending to be hurtful, in fact we are all hurting right now, some more than others but we are all effected and I don't think anyone has been out of line with their words.Daniel....the stars represent the states actually, there are 50 stars on the flag..one for each state. I have this all somewhere.FF..they do believe they know who did it (Bin Laden) and in fact they have known that he and his group are a very well organised threat for a long time. GreatMystikDancer..I can't give blood either (I am anemic and hypoglycemic) but I was just giving alternate suggestions. I am glad you feel so strongly.
Non-Https Image Link
------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 13 September 2001).]


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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MystikDancer


member
Location: MD, USA

Total posts: 118
Posted:We don't mix religion with school here. We are allowed a moment of silence, as said before, but you can't be forced to pray. Like me, I have no religion, and I depend solely on the power of humans' determination to survive, and to me that's my "religion".

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toneman


member


Total posts: 195
Posted:I read posts here a lot, but stay silent on most matters... until now. I believe that we must retaliate, and quite strongly, to help prevent this type of attack from happening again, HOWEVER, I believe that we need to change our views of the Middle East. We need to moderate our stances and quit taking sides. We need to say, "I'm sorry about the way we treated you." People outside of the US hate us because of our economic power and the way we make people bend over backwards if they need help. We make them conform to OUR beliefs and make them do things the way WE want. As an American, I didn't believe this until a few years ago. One must wonder, at some point, why does everyone hate us so much. A little reflection reveals that WE are the lowest common denominator in our problems, IE only we are involved in ALL of our issues, not the other party. By changing the way we relate to other countries, we can change the way they relate to us. The US has been bullying people around for too long, and maybe it's time to start treating people equally, not just in other countries, but even in our own! What most Americans don't realize is: We are the Russia's and China's to other people. People hate us for exactly the same reasons we hate them. The wool has been over our (the US) eyes for too long, and the gov't has done a good job at keeping a skewed view of the world alive. We do need to step back and ask, "WHAT THE FUCK?"keep spinningpray for peacepray for mercyPRAY FOR UNDERSTANDING

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Code128


member
Location: Boston, MA USA

Total posts: 69
Posted:Flash and anyone else that cares to listen:I am not a Patriotic person by nature. I have traveled the world and seen many other ways of life. What we have in the US right now is by no means the only way to live and is definitely not best way. America has veered from its path in such a large way that it is quite shameful. However this Country is strong and I have hope that we can regain our place as an international beacon. The things that we as a nation have done are quite unbelievable, especially for a place that has only existed for 300 or so years. Things change and we have fallen in a lot of ways, but there is a core that I do not think is rotten just yet. There are many problems with Nationalism and it is vitally important to question the things that our Govt and Media ask of us. Without the spirit that you seem to have a problem with though this world would be a very different place right now. World changing events dont happen because of a fractured nation that has each person questioning their personal involvement and individual reasons for involvement. US response and involvement in World War 2 happened only because of a National Pride that brought hundreds of thousands together to answer a nations call. That happened without any public knowledge of the Holocaust in Germany, or any of the other reasons that people can look back to now and think of as justifications. The people of this country answered the call because they thought it was the right thing to do for their nation.This Country is hurt in a way that has not been seen in a long time. Many many people are now dead. More than have been killed in the entire Mideast conflict over the past few years most likely. I dont know what the aim of this attack was (make the US fearful of being involved in any world affairs? change us back to a closed society that takes no role in the world stage? ) What it has done is anger a very large, very powerful nation, that now feels it has a mission. A God given mission to find and punish. In the national memory what this is most reminiscent of is Pearl Harbor, unfortunately the response may be similar. Problem now is that there is not an obvious nation to attack in response. What will happen now is a very big question, I can tell you this though there are a lotof people with a whole lot of expensive weapon systems that are just waiting for their chance to use them. Joshua Bloom It'll be a great day when the Air Force has to hold a bake sale for their new planes and Schools have all the books they need. "Hope for Peace, Prepare for War"

------------------
A.N.T.H.E.L.I.O.N

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Posted:I in no way condone terrorist activities but:Earlier this year the world asked the US for it's support in reducing the worlds pollution. President Bush said "Fuck you all. We (the US) want to remain the worlds biggest (25%) polluter, and we would rather you all die that suffer a little (unproven) economic upset."You don't change politics without a body count.Discuss. (Manipulative media tactics may not be included)It was nice to see in a time of crisis, the US vice president be placed in charge and Bush cowering under a table in a remote Nebraska bunker!How many more innocent civilians will die in the US reprisals?

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MystikDancer


member
Location: MD, USA

Total posts: 118
Posted:I don't see a reason to bash Bush now, not only because he IS already our president, but people are waiting for him to do soemthing right, the pressure is on, and we should try to avoid hostile feelings for him, no matter how much we feel it...

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Supafly
BRONZE Member since Apr 2001

TNT
Location: Charlotte, NC

Total posts: 173
Posted:I'm not the most patriotic American, but I do regard myself as a human who shares this rock with the rest of you. I don't want to hear anyone arguing about revenge or responsbility. Right now there are people who need help and we, as a country need help. I just wanted to post a copy of this editorial and say "thank you" to all those who have helped thus far: Israel deals with terrorism on a daily basis, we have been fortunate for themost part until now.Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto, by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his broadcast.This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth.Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, theLockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines, except Russia, flyAmerican Planes?Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon -- not once, but several times -- and safely home again.You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an oldcaboose. Both are still broke.I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those.Stand proud, America!

Fear the evil monkey!

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MystikDancer


member
Location: MD, USA

Total posts: 118
Posted:Supafly;I want you to understand how much I appreciate what you have said. I can only hope some others will see as you do.Many countries despise America for helping them, making them feel like they can't hang on their own, when, under the pride, the truth is we ALL need to help each other, and the US respects that. But, even as we help others, we don't get it back even a quarter of that help. I am sure if something like this horrific event occured in a different country, America would send troops and rescue workers immediatly.Enough said.

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nomad
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

nomad

retired
Location: Paris, France

Total posts: 356
Posted:What is happening is horrible. I am hearing from friends who worked nearby and how it turned from day to night in minutes, from a cousin's friend in nyc who knew people in the Boston plane that crashed in the tower, from a guy I work with who's roomate was staying in the Mariott hotel between the twin towers and is missing now, it's tragic.Supafly, the editorial you posed here says some true things, but only gives one side of America's involvement in foreign matters. What about the tens of thousands of people who died in Sudan after Clinton decided to bomb the country's main pharmaceutical plant? What about the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS innocent people who died in Irak since the US applied an irrelevant embargo on the country? Please don't take this the wrong way and by no means i wish to disrespect the situation or the people involved. But keep in mind that America is no angel.Peace,Nomad

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Supafly
BRONZE Member since Apr 2001

TNT
Location: Charlotte, NC

Total posts: 173
Posted:Yeah, I completely agree with you Nomad. That's mainly the reason I don't regard myself as patriotic because I don't condone the killing of anything that has been given the gift of life. I often get criticized for not supporting the policies of our nation and realize that we are the most egocentric culture on the planet. I just wanted to post that editorial to emphasize that even those that commit acts of evil upon one another still deserve the love, assistance and consideration of their fellow man.

Fear the evil monkey!

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beaker


member
Location: Salisbury, wiltshire, UK

Total posts: 54
Posted:I cant help feeling that America will make the wrong move and come under critisism. The end result being allied countries pulling out.I think the attack on the states was horrific but I want to echo the feelings of those who recognise that the USA should not preach about being a 'freedom loving' country when you see the way it has treated those in its way in the past. And why is it that every time I switch on the news all they are concerned with is a body count. It seems as though they want more to report, but sound so dismayed when nothing changes. phil.......

C'mon baby light my fire

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s-p-l-a-t


member
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia

Total posts: 383
Posted:Strongly disagreeing with a few but you get that...I understand you cannot force people to pray... it is obvious after that statement you have not developed an understanding of my message.My understanding of life tells me, however, there seems to be a strange tendency with some people to believe that "America" ..or "your rock" is some kind of almost 'entity' (or government?) that must be relied upon to 'protect' them in an almost spiritual sense.When my own beliefs tell me that this is ignoring the the most important being that can help. Where are our countries going to be when we're gone? Another plane completely... how will this help us then?Schools frighten me in many ways... I don't understand many people's view points 100% but decided to try and clarify. And I think you need to actually leave school to discover these things whether you're here or there.

The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King

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badly burned boy


member
Location: bookham, surrey, England

Total posts: 8
Posted:shocking, the audaciousness of some people, it always seems to be islamic extreme fundamentalists, or somthing not too dissimilar. I, like most of the rest of the world find americans very irritating (I know its a generalisation, but what are you gonna do!?!) and just the day before, i was joking with freinds in the pub about how funny it would be to airlift the pentagon and to drop it onto the White house. (please remember we were drinking) When I heard the news though, I was really shocked, These C#NTS must be stopped before they get their hands on Nukes, that is unless America haven't already sold them to Bin Laden.But What have america done to them that it requires this level of disruption death and sorrow? They are animals, lower on the chain of life than Swamp Donkeys.Thankyou, it felt good to get that off my chest. Twirl on Buddies

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MystikDancer


member
Location: MD, USA

Total posts: 118
Posted:I understand you were drunk...but isn't the image of the pentagon landing on the white house just a bit extreme?
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badly burned boy


member
Location: bookham, surrey, England

Total posts: 8
Posted:shocking, the audaciousness of some people, it always seems to be islamic extreme fundamentalists, or somthing not too dissimilar. I, like most of the rest of the world find americans very irritating (I know its a generalisation, but what are you gonna do!?!) and just the day before, i was joking with freinds in the pub about how funny it would be to airlift the pentagon and to drop it onto the White house. (please remember we were drinking) When I heard the news though, I was really shocked, These C#NTS must be stopped before they get their hands on Nukes, that is unless America haven't already sold them to Bin Laden.But What have america done to them that it requires this level of disruption death and sorrow? They are animals, lower on the chain of life than Swamp Donkeys.Thankyou, it felt good to get that off my chest. Twirl on Buddies

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Posted:They arent animals. They are human beings and denying their motivation will only guarantee that shit will go down again. Do you think they dont remember what you guys did to Sadam?Talking about them being animals only serves one purpose. That of avoiding any discussion about why they might have committed these crimes. Josh[This message has been edited by [Josh] (edited 18 September 2001).]

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