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shizN0T
member
Location: Stroudsburg, PA, USA
Member Since: 18th Jul 2001
Total posts: 184
Posted:HOLY $%!T

I smell something burning.


s-p-l-a-t
member
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Member Since: 8th Mar 2001
Total posts: 383
Posted:It's so hard to believe.... its such a surreal event.. it happened when I got home last night from a party and we'd been discussing 'revolutionary' things such as this... I am surprised it happened *this* year ... I mean... I had a feeling an attack would happen at some stage but surely not so soon... my prayers are with all of you who are affected by this indirectly or directly... I pray there is no more suffering...ya Pele, we'll put you up for a bit! In fact... if it was me I would have hightailed it to the furthest point I could reach with a land vehicle... but then again perhaps that's just me in shock...GW Bush really scares the crap outta me at the best of times... he reminds me of a lot of the things I don't like about our prime minister... but what can you do?I can't believe they're going ahead with CHOGM... I'm seriously considering going into the hills for that week.We're all in this together..and that comforts me... love to all.

The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King


s-p-l-a-t
member
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Member Since: 8th Mar 2001
Total posts: 383
Posted:oh..and how did those f#!$nuts get knives into the planes in the first place?? I thought security was super tight?? They're rumouring the cleaners had something to do with it..This seems so much like a dream.. lets make a HOP+family 23km underground bunker. In Antarctica? Hydroponic veges, chickens, and a device that creates water from snow?

The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King


bec
bec

member
Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australi...
Member Since: 15th Jan 2001
Total posts: 521
Posted:love and hugs to *everyone*


fireboy
An angry young man with a passon for metal
Location: Wagga Wagga, N.S.W, Australia
Member Since: 23rd Dec 2000
Total posts: 252
Posted:It make me think what kind of sick fuck are you to take hostage in a plane and crash it and kill many many more.:0fireboyRIP for the lost souls in the disarsterI MOURN WITH YOU ALL

Fireboy

<<SINister miNISister>>
remeber kids jesus slaves


jedimastah
member
Location: Round Rock TX , US
Member Since: 18th Aug 2001
Total posts: 97
Posted:Thngs only get worse before they get better. The way I see it, this could be the beginning of world unity. I know that sounds kind of drastic but think about it. The Soviet Union and China are right behind us in this little squirmish. If three superpowers like U.S., Soviet, and China can agree to work together,(mind you that these are three completely different belief structures,) what is to say that other countries will not follow suit."After the planets reallign, we've got to redefine.let's join, and derive, a new way to redesign.Unity is a challenge that we must overcome, I roll this blundt so now come and get some."These are a couple of lyrics for my song "PLANETARY ALLIGNMENT"


rangerbethany
member
Location: brisbane, QLD
Member Since: 27th Aug 2001
Total posts: 70
Posted:was this BIN LADIN?splat- you can run away with us to fingal during CHOGM-beth

floating
drifting
fading away
how could these stimulants lead us astray?


Galawen
member
Location: USA
Member Since: 28th Jun 2001
Total posts: 45
Posted:I just want to give everybody a little perspective of the criminal terrorist mind. I live in Israel and serve in the IDF. Every week almost we have a carbomb or suicidal terrorist in some main street in a major city. They do this because they belive that if they kill jews when they die the will be rewarded in heaven. It is religious fanaticism that drives them to "Insanity?". Their families are very well taken care of after they die and the terrorist himself is idolised. These people CELIBRATE when one of them dies, especially if he killed many with him.My condolences go out to anybody who is grieving.I myself have relitives missing in Manhatten.One of them worked in the trade center.Peace

Give Me FuelGive Me FireGive Me That Which I Desire-MetallicA


Fire Princess
member
Location: London/Brighton, UK
Member Since: 18th Jan 2001
Total posts: 130
Posted:
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My heart goes out to everyone during this terrible time. We can only wonder about what will happen next. Hopefully this will all be dealt with swiftly, without the need for war. We do not need any more loss of life on either side. No belief is worth killing innocent people for, in the name of political beliefs or retalliation. If the US bombs them back then they are just as bad as the terrorists.Peace to all.FP



Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Yes, Rangerbethany, they believe that they have evidence that this was in fact Bin Laden's work. They have known he was capable of it for sometime and in fact had already stepped up security in many places ut who would've thought he would use commercial planes?ANyway, did any hear the statement condemning the author Tom CLancy? For those who aren't familiar with him, he writes political espionage thriller type novels. In one of them terrorists take over the US by using commercial aircraft as bombs on key buildings. There are people who say that he should be held accountable for promoting this idea!
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How damn stupid! Kamikaze pilots were running into things when Clancy was in diapers! Bin Laden just seems to have figured out a more upsetting way to do it.That and now people are yelling about where their tax dollars have gone, since billions are spent on security by the government yet we no longer feel safe. Well, how the hell was anyone supposed to know they would use a commercial jet as a bomb? Hello!
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It's just hard for me to swallow that in the face of tragedy people feel the need to become so angry they lose all sensibility it seems. If they want blame look at the governmental interference history, not spending, and maybe there will be some enlightenment. SOrry, didn't mean to rant.As for getting bombs, guns and knives on planes...that's not so hard really. They can be made with plastiques, ceramics and all manner of fun materials that don't show up on metal detectors. That and look at how many guns/knives look like something else now. If they show up on xray machines they just look like something normal. And yet we have to explain our lives away trying to get our harmless fire gear from point a to b! ------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 13 September 2001).]


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


N8
member
Location: NY, USA
Member Since: 10th Apr 2001
Total posts: 336
Posted:This is quite possibly the longest thread I have ever seen on this board...Funny thing fate is,Its seems it takes a tradegy to bring people together now a days, makes me wonder when we stopped unifying for the good rather than against the evil...------------------Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...


dask
member
Location: BzH-=-France
Member Since: 5th Jun 2001
Total posts: 53
Posted:Seeing all this horror from france I wanted to tell you that everybody here think about the victims and is sad... very sad...But now you americans have to face reallity and ask THE question: why ? There are numerous reasons (political and economical) none of them is sufficient to justify such a carnage but crazy angry peoples makes crazy things. and america's past is not all white.It's not a time for action there's too much emotion in everybody's heart for this...

o]-[DasK]-[o


NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Interesting that this has turned into politics. I guess I'm too close to have an opinion yet. I'm still trying to findy my friends and figure out how I'll get home tonight. I also have to vacuum the World Trade Center off of my living room carpet. I left the windows open.

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


MystikDancer
member
Location: MD, USA
Member Since: 4th Sep 2001
Total posts: 118
Posted:Is anyone else jumping at the sound of airplanes? I know I have been since I got home yesturday.I want a chance to tell people, no matter how much you hate GWB, there's nothing we can do but to back him and the government. He is facing a crisis, and GWB is better than no leader at all. I would expect him to stay safe, but I would also expect him to give orders as well.I don't want a war. I want this situation to be solved calmly, the people who did this to be found, and to be punished without turning this whole situation into a war. There's been enough death already.As for the knives. The hijackers were also trained to use normal plactic knives to kill (gee doesn't that make you feel so much better for those plastic knives). They also had plastic cutters and maybe explosives, we wouldn't know.GWB called them cowards for a reason. he said we would "hunt them down" for a reason. He's trying to give America the re-assurance that US can and will find these people, and that they can't hide from us. Stay calm US


adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:I've been very troubled--angered--by a number of posts here that say, in short, "the USA had this coming" (these all seem to be from Americans). This is crap. Every big country has behaved badly in the international arena, and every country of any size has behaved badly at home. America, being especially big and the wealthiest of countries, makes itself especially conspicuous, but not more deserving of attack for it (as if any country deserves such an attack).Also, lest we forget, it wasn't so much the country that was attacked in some amorphous way, it was thousands of individual human beings. I'm sure some number were not US citizens, and I doubt any of them had ever done anything to harm the attackers. By treating them as faceless representatives of the USA, you are guilty of some of the same thinking as the attackers.The fact that GW's administration has already been isolationist, and has had more of a hands-off attitude towards Israel, has probably emboldened Israel to take its recent attacks against the Palestinians (which I utterly deplore--and btw, I'm a Jew, not that that should matter). This, ironically, may (I emphasize *may*) have fed into this attack. We are starting to see some evidence that the attack was by radical Muslims:http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010912/ts/a ttacks_boston_airport.html(sorry if that long URL gets messed up)And, I hate to say mean things about Pele, but I've got to single her out here: I can't disagree more when you say that the "absolute conviction" of the attackers is "noble". Anything but. It's another word for fanaticism.[This message has been edited by adamrice (edited 13 September 2001).]

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy


Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Adam, you did not say anything mean about me at all, you disagreed with what I said, and that I encourage if you don't agree. No big deal. I'm not hurt. I'm not upset. Friends?
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I want to say, I never said America had this coming. No country, in my eyes, has anything like this coming, no matter what the history or political standpoint or religion. And this is proving to be about religious politics.Fanatisism is conviction of it's blindest form. You believe in something so completely you are willing to die for it. I find that in and of itself noble. Would you find someone who throws himself in front of a bullet because his religion taught him that sacrifice would earn him and his family a golden spot in the hereafter noble? Probably because he only sacrificed himself. I am not sure I have that kind of conviction. What of the pilot who ditched the plane killing 45 to save who knows how many? Was he noble? I think so. I do not envy the decision he had to make, and in the same position I could only hope to make the same one. He believed in something so much that he was willing to risk the lives of the passengers he is supposed to protect for the greater good. That is the same mentality the terrorists have, risk the lives of others for the greater good, including their own. I don't condone the methods at all. I am the firm believer that if you are determined to kill yourself, do it alone. I am quite sickened in fact (and still missing a friend) but I see the root of where it comes from. This is one of those issues where the good and bad lines are blurred by perspective. Yup I think the terrorists are the "bad guys" because I am hurt and angry. But then, they think we are, hence the partying in the streets in Afghanistan over this tragedy. My notes have plead the humanitarian root. People from all over the world are effected, it wasn't an attack on America (though that may have been it's origin), it was an attack on humanity and for what, a godly purpose?I think that the organization that planned this should be sought out and punished severly but that nations need not be punished. There have been reports of possibly sending people to Afghanistan to find the terrorists which they believe are harboured there, and what will that do? Punish a nation for one groups actions and punish ourselves with more deaths.If you look at this on the broadest possible perspective there is no right or wrong, there are no shades of grey...just darkness, in heart, spirit and mind. Some find comfort in the darkness, others fear it. But nothing is perceived clearly in the dark.I want to leave you, Adam, with a quote I once heard on a cheesy b-rate tv show but it is one of my favorites "There is no blinder man than a man with a mission." Never has there been a more true statement.As for the plastic knives...doesn't that suck? I buy a box of the damn things for a picnic and I can't even cut a hot dog without them breaking!
Non-Https Image Link
------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


MystikDancer
member
Location: MD, USA
Member Since: 4th Sep 2001
Total posts: 118
Posted:Just for those who might care just how DETAILED this horror was constructed here's a side note:Yesterday was 9/11 or 911. 911 is the 245th day of the year. 911-245 is 666It disgusts me beyond belief


dask
member
Location: BzH-=-France
Member Since: 5th Jun 2001
Total posts: 53
Posted:I have seen someone proving the end of the world with a mail box and a ruler... numbers can give you what you want to read in them ;0)

o]-[DasK]-[o


NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Just wanted to update from the front. The city is still chaos. Downtown is still a warzone, complete with men in large rifles and green Hummers on my block (the national guard was called in I guess.) I swear it still has a stench of dusty concrete. Some streets are barron. Some are packed with emergency personel. Everything seems wrong. No one is shopping. No cars on the street unless you live there (first time in my life I got the parking space closest to my house.) I had to essentially go through "customs" to get back into Manhattan. They searched my car. (Note: DON'T keep all of your poi fuel in your trunk.
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Had to explain that I was an avid camper.) It's hitting everyone at different times.I'm gonna sidestep the political arguements except to say this: It's a strange feeling having someone you've never met give their lives to try to kill you. I mean, I am the person who they were going after, Joe New Yorker. They didn't hit a government building. They didn't hit the millitary. They didn't hit a monument. They didn't hit a trade center when it was closed. They didn't hit a Nike or Exxon or McDonalds headquarters. They didn't get diplomats or buisness leaders. They wanted dead New Yorkers. And that's what they got.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


nomad
nomad

retired
Location: Paris, France
Member Since: 15th Jan 2001
Total posts: 356
Posted:Adam, I wouldn't agree with anyone who says that the US deserved such an attack. That would be a cruel statement. However, I agree with the people (Americans or not) who said that a retaliation like this should have been expected for a long time. I am obviously not saying it was justified, I'm saying it had to happen eventually. US foreign policy has done horrible things to some third world countries. I agree with you, the US is not the only Evil on Earth in that respect and many other wealthy countries did terrible things to poorer ones especially in colonial times (my home country, France, being one of them), but that is no excuse. The US has many times used our tax dollars to fund militias that killed innocent people (Irak, East Timor, Nicaragua, Chiapas, the list is long) but that is not widely reported in the mainstream US media. You have to dig for alternative sources to find out more about this. Bin Laden himself was being supported by a CIA-backed group in Pakistan while fighting against Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 80s:http://www.msnbc.com/news/190144.aspMy point is that things need to be put in perspective when trying to understand why this horror happened. We can feel and share the pain of this tragedy with the ones we know who are directly affected, but we should also remain critical of the nationalistic propaganda TVs and low-quality newspapers are trying to feed us. Peace,Nomad[This message has been edited by Nomad (edited 13 September 2001).]


DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:there seems to be a disagreement on wether the terrorists were cowards or not. I think they were cowards... and they weren't....Cowards: because they chose to go after defencless civilians, instead of going after the people who made the decisions that affected the terrorist's lives.Not cowards: because they gave their lives for their belifes. This is assuming that they were in control of their own bodies and not demonicaly possesed.I really hope we don't have to go to war over this. It also seems to have brought the world together. I hope this is a good thing, maybe the superpowers can finaly get along better, and start disarming some more nukes.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!


Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Just wanted to say my friend Jussie is located. She is shaken not stirred but gloriously alive and well.
Non-Https Image Link


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


pozee
old hand
Location: san diego
Member Since: 27th Jul 2001
Total posts: 886
Posted:not sure what is going to happen with this "retaliation" but if it does, i will be one of the first people there. wish me life and luck.

anyone got a light?


flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:as you wish pozee.

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Chotys
member

Member Since: 15th Jul 2001
Total posts: 91
Posted:When we find out who did this i can't wait to see the americans (hopefully) fuck them up big time because the bastards deserve iti for one am signing up for the aussie army coz i am totally against this kind of sick twisted shit and all i can say about terrorists is: YOUR A BUNCH OF FUCKING IDIOTS AND WHEN YOU DIE YOU DIE IN VAIN BECAUSE YOUR NOT ACCOMPLISHING ANYTHING, YOUR JUST PISSING IN THE WIND AND YOUR COUNTRY WILL SUFFER, DIE YOU FUCKING PIGS*shudder*bye:Chotys:


Tsumi
member
Location: SF CA USA
Member Since: 11th Feb 2001
Total posts: 32
Posted:More interesting numbers i saw somewhere, if they haven't been posted already:"The flights that were Highjacked were from United and AA, they were numbered as follows:11, 93, 175, and 7711 = Today's Date9+3 = 12 = Tomorrow1+7+5 = 13 = Thursday7+7=14=FridayHopefully this is a coincidence and the terrorists can't add. but if this is correct there will either be acts of terrorism every day for the next few days or a grand event the last day."I don't know about that, but still...


nomad
nomad

retired
Location: Paris, France
Member Since: 15th Jan 2001
Total posts: 356
Posted:Hey man, if you keep looking in the numbers, you will keep finding stuff. There are tons of potential coincidences out there...Nomad


.draevon
.draevon

member
Location: Androgen
Member Since: 12th Dec 2000
Total posts: 92
Posted:Just thought that I might jump in and point out that this all happened on September 11. If anyone remembers last year, they might remember the S11 anti-globalisation riots and protests around the world on September 11 2000.s11 ... anti-globalisation ... world trade centre ... but no-one else seems to have thought of this.raevon


Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:s11, 911, dates, times, if you wanted to I am sure you could even find some correlative thing with the number of hijackers (18 all together, 5 on each of the tower planes, 4 each on the others). Maybe it was a holy day to them, maybe it had historic value, maybe they shot a dart at a calendar and this is what they came up with. I agree with Nomad, there are as many of these coincedences as you want to make of it. They don't explain or take away the pain any. THey don't make any justifications only provide possible excuses where there really are none.*Sigh* I dunno. Our local paper published a whole list of these things but I don't think the terrorists spent time training in commercial jet flight, in architectural studies and over a year in this country they so hated to come up with mathematical permutations for the perfect date for destruction. There is none, and they just made this one of the blackest days in history, so no matter what the date significance was before, it pales in comparison now.On the other side of life I was sent this article. It was a letter to the terrorists as an emotional expression of a nation. It is not riddled with blind patriotism. It is not screaming political jargon and 1001 ways to die. It is a raw, emotional standpoint that I think many, not just Americans, are experiencing. I thought I would share it.> Miami Herald: Editorial to the Terrorists Responsible>> Published Wednesday, September 12, 2001> The Miami Herald> Leonard Pitts>> We'll go forward from this moment.>> It's my job to have something to say.>> They pay me to provide words that help make sense of that which troubles>the American soul. But in this moment of airless shock when hot tears>sting disbelieving eyes, the only thing I can find to say, the only words>that seem to fit, must be addressed to the unknown author of this >suffering.>> You monster. You beast. You unspeakable bastard. What lesson did you hope>to teach us by your coward's attack on our World Trade Center, our >Pentagon?>What was it you hoped we would learn? Whatever it was, please know that you>failed.>> Did you want us to respect your cause? You just damned your cause.> Did you want to make us fear? You just steeled our resolve.> Did you want to tear us apart? You just brought us together.>> Let me tell you about my people. We are a vast and quarrelsome family, a>family rent by racial, social, political and class division, but a family>nonetheless. We're frivolous, yes, capable of expending tremendous >emotional>energy on pop cultural minutiae -- a singer's revealing dress, a ball >team's>misfortune, a cartoon mouse. We're wealthy, too, spoiled by the ready>availability of trinkets and material goods, and maybe because of that, we>walk through life with a certain sense of blithe entitlement. We are>fundamentally decent,though -- peace-loving and compassionate. We struggle>to know the right thing and to do it. And we are, the overwhelming majority>of us, people of faith, believers in a just and loving God.>> Some people -- you, perhaps -- think that any or all of this makes us >weak.>> You're mistaken. We are not weak. Indeed, we are strong in ways that >cannot>be measured by arsenals.>> IN PAIN> Yes, we're in pain now. We are in mourning and we are in shock. We're >still>grappling with the unreality of the awful thing you did, still working to>make ourselves understand that this isn't a special effect from some>Hollywood blockbuster, isn't the plot development from a Tom Clancy novel.> Both in terms of the awful scope of their ambition and the probable final>death toll, your attacks are likely to go down as the worst acts of>terrorism in the history of the United States and probably, the history of>the world. You've bloodied us as we have never been bloodied before.>> But there's a gulf of difference between making us bloody and making us>fall. This is the lesson Japan was taught to its bitter sorrow the last >time>anyone hit us this hard, the last time anyone brought us such abrupt and>monumental pain. When roused, we are righteous in our outrage, terrible in>our force. When provoked by this level of barbarism, we will bear any>suffering, pay any cost, go to any length, in the pursuit of justice.>> I tell you this without fear of contradiction. I know my people, as you,>I>think, do not. What I know reassures me. It also causes me to tremble with>dread of the future.>> In the days to come, there will be recrimination and accusation, fingers>pointing to determine whose failure allowed this to happen and what can be>done to prevent it from happening again. There will be heightened security,>misguided talk of revoking basic freedoms. We'll go forward from this >moment>sobered, chastened, sad. But determined, too. Unimaginably determined.>>> THE STEEL IN US> You see, the steel in us is not always readily apparent. That aspect of >our>character is seldom understood by people who don't know us well. On this>day, the family's bickering is put on hold. As Americans we will weep, as>Americans we will mourn, and as Americans, we will rise in defense of all>that we cherish.>> So I ask again: What was it you hoped to teach us? It occurs to me that>maybe you just wanted us to know the depths of your hatred. If that's the>case, consider the message received. And take this message in exchange:> You don't know my people. You don't know what we're capable of. You don't>know what you just started.>> But you're about to learn.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK


MiSsFrOg
member
Location: Oceanside, CA USA
Member Since: 30th Aug 2001
Total posts: 187
Posted:*sigh* there are some sick people out there... going to donate blood this weekend My thoughts and prayers are with the victems of this horrible act.--take care everyoneerica

Its not easy being green....


Ash Blackstar
Ash Blackstar

member
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Member Since: 1st Sep 2001
Total posts: 177
Posted:I'm still in shock, two days later. Yesterday I spent three hours on the phone with a friend, talking about anything but the attacks, just because it has so overloaded me. I feel completly and totally emotionally drained by all this. How could anyone be so callous and cruel. And watching the videos of people in the middle east dancing in the streets. How would they feel if it had been their parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, CHILDREN, that had been in the buildings when they collapsed. Were has their compassion gone????

Ash Blackstar

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, But Whips and Chains excite me"
"Only way to deal with Drama, heavy weaponry and a strong does of grow the Hell up"

"I reject your reality and substitute my own" Adam Savage - Mythbusters


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