deadend007
member
Location: Ft. Hood, TX
Member Since: 10th Sep 2001
Total posts: 5
Posted:Does anybody else feel like their crowds are getting smaller? Like people at parties don't want you to be there? When I first started people were always gathering around. Now it seems they're getting into your strings on purpose to make you move. It's not like I go to the middle of the floor and just start dancing. I always look for some open area that is not being used. If there is not a whole lot of space, then I wait 'till a reasonable amount of time has past on an open dance floor before I take the middle. A message similar to this one was posted on ILR one time and people replyed that poi was unoriginal and we should learn how to dance for real.

Buy the ticket.Take the ride.

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N8
member
Location: NY, USA
Member Since: 10th Apr 2001
Total posts: 336
Posted:Deadend,Now, I want you to know I'm not trying to bash you here- but I think you're missing the point.(Hopefully some of the veterans will back me up on this...)First off, who cares what they think, if you love your art then it doesn't matter how big the crowd is. And secondly, spin because you love the art- not because you like to draw a crowd.Granted we all have gotten off on someone cheering after we bust out our best trick, but with the increased exposure of poi in clubs and especially the underground music scene- people get used to seeing it, maybe its not so impressive to them anymore.Don't sweat it. It ain't worth it.read my sig.N8------------------Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:I'm going to agree with N8. Spin because you love it, spin as if no one is looking and it doesn't matter except for you.The market is saturated. The fad is fading into the next and people are looking elsewhere for entertainment. Just because you aren't the center of their adoration doesn't mean that you aren't good, nor does it mean that you aren't impressing the hell out of that one quite person in the corner who watches from a distance....As for the ones who walk into your strings, the fire people even have idiots who walk into the fire. People are going to be people. There are those who are intimidated by that which they do not understand, can not do, or draws attention away from them and they will be jerks no matter where you spin or what you do. You just have to bop them with your string and smile sweetly, apologizing for not seeing them "Geez dude, I am so sorry. I was so into my spin I didn't see you cut into my glowing strings."
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Don't let them beat you down. Do it for yourself and if you really need an audience then do it for that one person too shy to compliment you.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 10 September 2001).]


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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saffire
member
Location: North Queensland,. Australia
Member Since: 8th Sep 2001
Total posts: 27
Posted:I agree with N8, It can be just as satisfying to practice in the backyard! Especially when you master a move you have been having trouble with. No crowd can give a buzz quite like that.I find that I am very tense/nervous when I am in front of a crowd, if it is just me and my firetoys I can just relax and enjoy the experience!! [image]http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubb/images/icons/grin.gif">------------------[/image]Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

DONT PANIC
Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

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Myst
addict
Location: Oceanside, California, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 439
Posted:Their numb to it cause they're used to it now. You have to constantly learn new moves and wraps to keep their attention. If no one wants to watch you as long as there are other spinners there you'll more then likely have an audience. You have to do out of the ordinary moves to keep anyone elses attention. Eric

Its about talent, not make up or costumes.

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Posted:I actually have to say, that after spinning at Fusion Festival where the fire performance area was in direct view of the main floor crowd, I think I prefer not having an audience...my truely blissful twirls have always been when there wasnt a crowd, when everyone was just doing their own thing for the fun of it...If you are looking to impress...you should look at what ppl are thinking is cool in your community (usually there is a crowd around such 'cool' ppl) and buy/practice that thing.Pele is right, there are hardly any ppl that havent seen twirling before, and there is an even smaller number that knows what its like, so doing it to get the crowds is going to become an uphill battle...do it for yourself, do for the art, but dont bother trying to impress the mob, there will always be a buzz lightyear coming out to compete with
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Josh (There's a snake in my boots)


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s-p-l-a-t
member
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Member Since: 8th Mar 2001
Total posts: 383
Posted:Buzz Lightyear = Myst? j/k
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I do agree you should be doing it for yourself..but just presuming you are and that meeting people is just a surprising bonus...just also remember..when people are on drugs, its kinda hard to notice what is in front of you. (I'm sure more drugscrewed people walk into poles on average a day). And these are often people that wear tight 'muscle' shirts and dance by standing there and just moving there arms repetitively side to side about maybe 10 cm of movement. These people often go apeshit when thwocked with a poi (ermmm of course I'm not speaking from experience
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)Perhaps just spin at doofs and where there's actually breathing room. Clubs are often so stuffy and filled with recycled after recycled after recycled air that the CO2 + drug combination just makes everything all weird. Plus I find on the whole people are much more chilled at outdoor events. (even if they store their reptiles in strange places)Anyways..just some thoughts...


The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King

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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:It's a funny thing. I can be quite happy twirling by myself. And twirling in front of an appreciative audience is great--I don't know what it is, but I pick up on something in the crowd and it feels good. But twirling in front of an unappreciative audience sucks hard. Again, I suppose I'm picking up on something in the crowd--but it's something bad.This is not the same thing as twirling for yourself within a crowd--I've done that too (when there's some elbow room), and it's more like twirling in my backyard, except that I'll wind up with an audience of one or two people. But the two do seem to be related.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:With the greatest reluctance I am going to strongly disagree with Pele and Josh on one point...(SORRY GUYS
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) There are a LOT of people who have not seen or even heard of poi. It just depends on where you live and where you spin. In this great state of Oklahoma where I live, The only poeple who have seen poi are "ravers" (VERY SMALL percentage of population [X<0.5%] and mostly younge people) Also, I have never seen an Oklahoma raver even come close to my (and J.T.'s) current skill level. I busted out the fire poi while a football game (two days ago) was letting out and there were thousands of cars backed up for miles, and thousands of people where walking by. I had hundreds of people yelling at me and freaking out because it was one of the most increadable things they had ever seen, while the rest of them just watched in stuned silence. It was all I could do to ignore all the compliments and focus on twirling. And I promise you, the vast majority (98%) of those people had never seen anything like it. So, the market is NOT saturated in all places. If you wan't people to be amazed, go someplace where they have never seen it, and there are alot of those places around here... (and/or become bad ass)This was the most increadable experience of my life, and I am going to do it again, and again, and again. There are still people that need to see this stuff, you just have to be in the right place at the right time.


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Pele
Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA
Member Since: 15th Dec 2000
Total posts: 6193
Posted:Hey! I never said *everyone* has seen spinning. In fact, tonnes of people here haven't seen it.
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What I meant is that at these parties and things where it is a frequent activity it is a been there done that. I disagree with doing more technical moves (sorry
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). To those who don't know how to do it, even if they have seen it before, it is light/fire in circles not three or five beat anything.I still say...do it for you since you are truly the only one you need to please.
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Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Charles
Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland
Member Since: 27th Jun 2001
Total posts: 3989
Posted:Well I'm going to be just the general nice guy, and agree with Pele/Josh AND SantanaTwo.The limits of a population's experince is just that, limited. Poi/Glow sticks has more exposure than fire (usually), and there are more poeple doing it. However, we all seem to forget that unless someone does poi, or is interested for other reasons, once they seen the string fly around a few times, that's it. We are quite likely the same with all sorts of other things, they look different, but we're into swinging (or whatever).People are more likely to remember fire, whether it's poi,staff,eating,breathing or just a bonfire in the backyard of a party. And will often watch for ages when the same moves with glow will get boring to the onlookers in a shorter space of time. (this is nothing against glowstickers, just people being people.)But when we pull of an amazing BTB something, most (most, not all...) people will just remember that this person was spinning glowsticks/fire or whatever. They won't even be used to thinking of it as a combination of seperate moves.And the drunker they are, and/or the more stoned, the less they notice as well.As an example, if you don't play chess, and you glanced at a game where the one guy was going to lose the next move no matter what, but had twice as many pieces on the board as his opponent, both players would think you knew he was going to lose. A more astute player might know there's a chance you would think that the loser was winning because of the number of pieces on the board. But 9/10, as you don;t play chess (assumption) you didn't pay any attention to the pieces, numbers of, or who was winning or losing and didn't really care.Having some really kick-ass technical moves won't keep people's interest for long, once they've seen it that's it, unless they are poi'ers too. And, fire is great for mesmerizing people no matter what you do with it.Also (i know im prattling a little bit), a crowd pull often has more to do with the time people have available to them. If you busk on a thoroughfare, where everyone is going to a movie or a show, and don't have time to stop and watch, you won;t pull a crowd, even if they are interested. This is also the same in club, if people are there to dance, or be with their friends or whatever, that's what they want to do, and your performance doesn't fit in with them, then thats par for the course.Whereas if you're in a park, or it's lunchtime and people are looking for something to do, they'll just watch you even if they arent that keen, coz they've got nothing better to do (incidentally, these are the people with the lowest expectations, so it's easy to blow them away and get lots of folding...
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).It's sometimes hard to imagine why people aren't interested in what we do sometimes, but they have their own lives, and their own reasons and they might be wondering why the hell you aren't impressed with their new Nike's or new piercings...Spin for yourself, if that means creating a crowd, the prepare to be dissappointed sometimes, and prepare to have an awesome time with others.As an end note, there has been more tv coverage and more spinners in the world than ever before, while there might be lots of areas where it is unheard of, those areas are getting fewer and many people may have seen it already. But they may have forgotten because it wasn't that important to them at the time.Wheh, well, thanks to everyone who's taken the time to read this, human attention spans and crowd control is a favourite topic of mine. I'm open to any further debate, as always...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz


HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
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adamrice
adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA
Member Since: 19th Dec 2000
Total posts: 1015
Posted:To re-emphasize a point Charles and Pele made--the average audience member is not going to pick up on specific technical tricks. Someone who does poi probably will, and perhaps an "experienced spectator" will also. But everyone at all levels will pick up on dynamism, charisma, and personal style. I've seen technically competent twirlers who left me cold, and technically unambitious twirlers who were absolutely riveting.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:oops, sorry pele, I must have been up late again writing threads...you forgive me?I'm going to agree with the last three people who said stuff.... Most people watch you spining fire and say to themselves, "Wow, oooo, ciiiircles" They don't know the difference between a reverse 8 beat weave and a three beat forward weave, all they see are circles. They MIGHT notice a butterfly vs a weave, but they aren't going to think much past "OOOHHH, circles..." I know, because that is all I think half the time, and I know the difference. I think the poi hypnotize you and put you into a trance (especialy with FIRE), they do it to me anyways. When I watch someone spin, half the time I don't even remember what I saw, because I space off about 10 seconds into any routine. JT does also. (this makes filming a real chore
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)


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Posted:I think to the untrained eye, the difference between same direction moves, and different direction moves, is in the way you move your body. ppl can recognise that, without having to know how to twirl. thats why I think body movement is important....that in conjuction to the movement of the poi is the dance. 5 beaters only impress other twirlers... Josh

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