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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I have been following the "Pyrolympics" a fair bit. The concept of having one was brought up a long time ago on here, and since the site went up, I have been kind of following it.Now, personally, I disagree with it. I think that doing a comparitive judging on a personal art is very defeating of the purpose.I feel that when so many people pride themselves on their individual style, how can they be judged on whose personal style is better when it is subjective?Supposedly this "competition" is for everyone, though I did notice the preliminaries do not come close to America, where there are a fair number of fire performers/spinners. That, in my eyes, is not including everyone.It says that the final judges will be the best fire people in the world now, to ensure fair judging. Who determined these people are the best? What criteria did they meet to be deemed as such? I deem "the best" based on different qualities as other people, as do we all. I want to know who took it upon themselves to pick "the best" based on their own personal criteria?Many, many excellent spinners are not into choreography and costumes and such....so how can there be only three areas of judging...technical, costume and choreography? It is ridiculous to score people in such a theatrical basis when there are many who do not have a theatrical knowledge or interest for their art. And truly choreography and costumes are theatrical at the core. Yet the way they promote this is that everyone, from the really excellent local rave kid who freeflows amazingly to those who constantly take a stage in a practiced, polished way can do this and it will be fair. I do not see this as being possible.With sports the Olympics are possible because there are rules to the games. If you step out of bounds, there are consequences. If you bobble or land incorrectly, there are consequences. If you are out of uniform, or the costume guidelines, you are disqualified.With fire there are no rules, and none should be imposed, leaving judging to be too open ended and based more on opinion than anything else. I can spend $1000 on a kickin' costume and 1000 hours perfecting my routine but if judge #3 doesn't like it I am screwed. I also don't think that technicality can count, because all the spinners I have seen can pull off the same technical moves in very different ways. I think if it becomes regulated for events such as this then the art will become more rigid and even more about technicalities and less about the flow and emotion and style.Overall I think it is disdainful and a misrepresentation of what we do. But that is just my opinion.What do you think/feel about the Pyrolympics?------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Pheelgood


member
Location: London

Total posts: 30
Posted:It dosen't really look that bad, Pele They do state many times that it's unofficial, and that you only get to compete in one of the three categories.Seems (to my humble eyes) like it's not so important that someone gets to win, or that it's judged by the best in the world, but rather that there's enough interest here in Europe to make it happen in the first place.Would they judge how good ppl's flow and emotion and style are in relation to the technical ability they display whilst flowing? If someone has no flow, how will they ever become technically inventive?Personally i would love to go see.

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:I agree with both of you.Pele is right (IMHO) in the way that it's name represents it as an official, rule governed and worldwide event which should be the aspiration of every firey.Which is what I would think were I to hear the Uni-Olympics (unicycles) or the Hairdresser's Olympics.So taken in that context, by name alone, it will be stifling and possibly impossible to judge in the way claimed.But if you take the name more as in the name of a club or a Eurpean Fire contest, there's a lot more leeway and the ability for lots more issues to be loosely defined.It's all in a name afterall...------------------Charles (INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggling.co.nz

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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buzztea


member
Location: berlin, germany

Total posts: 4
Posted:well, guys, u know the website, right?if you would let us know about your conserns instead of only putting it in a bad light, we would have a chance to consider it and move on!we didnt want to do this to support our own egoistic ideas but make the worlds biggest and most amazing fire event.to have something like this you need a competition to select some people we can support to go to the big final.this doesn't necessarily have to be a competition...for the future, we would appreciate it if you also posted your concerns on the pyrolympics board, good or bad, doesnt matter!i don't have the time to look thru all the fire websites in the world and check if everyone is happy!thanx,Basti------------------buzztea

buzztea

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Well said! Well said!Do you have an email list or something to keep other interested parties informed?Unfortunately, none of us have time to check out all the fire websites, so if you have an email list that myself, Pele, Malcolm and everyone form all the other sites could be on, and of course, having you on ours, then we can all stay in touch a little more often and have a better idea about the world scene...I'm just sending you one through now...Thanks Basti.------------------Charles (AKA INFERNO)newdolbel@hotmail.comhttp://juggle.co.nz/fire/fire.html

HoP Posting Guidelines
* Is it the Truth?
* Is it Fair to all concerned?
* Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
* Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi Pele, I thought you were a bit heavy on poor old Basti by closing both his pyrolympic threads. He is looking for support for an event and posted at least once in the Events - Performance - Gathering section. IMO his only crime was being a bit over enthusiastic by posting twice. I dont agree with all this fire Olympic stuff, but hey, half the people at HOP want to compete, and I am not going to condemn them for that. So in the interest of fairness I suggest you open one of his threads. And good luck to Basti if he wants to organise an olympic fire meet. Gott go now.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Two things Stone. Basti did not follow the rules by searching a topic that had already been established and posting in that. I started this thread awhile ago and he revived it after it suggested he look here. Not only that but he opened his original topic in two forums, which is why they are both in here and locked, if you read through them, I moved one as well. You speak of in fairness to him but what about fairness to all the other people who have locked threads and are asked to use the search, or those who use the search and revived a topic instead of starting a repeat? He is no different than anyone else and in fairness I treated him as I do everyone else. That is why I closed those threads. Do not condemn me without all the facts or for doing my job. He wanted opinions and posting them here is just as good as any new topic...or going to his site as he suggested.Secondly, I have not seen "half the people at HOP" say they wanted to compete. That would be over 700 people. Where did you see this?As for me being harsh, I believe in backing my opinions with reasons and facts, and in not necessarily sugar coating them. I was not being mean but matter of fact. I stand by that. I also enforce the rules of the board fairly, and Basti understood that and we have a dialogue going through email as well. This thread is open for people to post their opinions in.In fairness to everyone the threads stay closed. ------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Hi Pele, I still stand by my previous comments, but I'm not going to make it an issue. Perhaps the "thread locking" was a fair call. I will hovever, answer your question. "half the people at HOP say they wanted to compete. That would be over 700 people. Where did you see this? " Apologies, for generalizing. You certainly take things literally, if not pedantically. As you say, this topic had been discussed many times and it just seemed to me that HOP was split down the middle on the issue, which is why I said half the people at HOP. Now, if I had said 50% of people at HOP, then the 700 people thingy would apply. Maybe I should have said half the people who replied to posts on this subject. [This message has been edited by Stone (edited 22 February 2002).]

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Itsgottab


member
Location: NZ

Total posts: 244
Posted:stone i agree with you, the comments asked for by basti wherre related to a specific web page and fire performance in general not a general disscuion, i think pele you have used the rules for personal reasons, (who doesn't think competion is in the spirit of fire arts and who is trying to run a similar styled event in my home land). i thought it may have been better to link up with fellow fire people, your response shows a real lack of 'social skills'this being said you have played within the rules but some times spirit is more important.petty you deleted my privious posting, and may i ask for what reason, no swearing just opinion, or are we censoring that to.regards your biggest fan.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Sorry, Itsgottab, but the Spinning and Twirling Arts Convention is by no means similar to what they are planning. If the Pyolympics site had remained in it's normal state, instead of reverting to only discussion board then you could see that.*I* am also not doing the convention alone, there are several of us working on it.I have also been very active lately in speaking with Basti privately to find solutions to make the vision happen. If you read through his site you will find I am not opposed to the idea as much as the approach these things are taking.Please don't assume anything about me until you do your research.As per the usual, it was moderated for being offensive and disrespectful, there was an email sent out about it. Anyway, I do thank you for toning it down though. Please send any further gripes to my email.Tell me, how would leaving those posts be in the spirit of this board? Or for that matter what could you have said in those threads that you can not here? Absolutely nothing because they are the same topic. And how is this moot discussion part of staying on topic?Thanks for the thoughts, but in fairness and impartiality they remain closed.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 23 February 2002).]

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:I have always respected HOP and the commitment shown by the dedicated fire artist's who run the site. But as they say -it's the little things in life, like locked threads and deleted posts, that ruin a relationship. Many thanks Itsgottab for support, and opening my eyes to the possibility of hypocrisy in this debate. Now, I'm really confused by this whole mess. I think I will put my plans for a trip to NZ on hold, and see what develops.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Stone, I am sorry you feel that way but can I point something out to you? There are two pages of events here in this forum. The only two closed are the ones that are exact duplicates, which Basti understood and posted here.So, if we were wanting to undermine fire festivals in lew of our own, why would we have an Event and Gathering forum? And wait until Burning Man picks up again, which I might ad is an international event that has at least my support, though I never go. In fact, there are several international fire events globally annually. Please don't insult me with accusations based on misinformed opinions. If you choose not to go to New Zealand, that would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. There will be many wonderful people there, from this board and not, to hang out, share and learn and for many of us to finally meet.I am sorry you feel the way you do but do not condemn the board nor those of us who work hard on it because of unfounded speculation. And if I was such a prickette, I wouldn't be on the board at all. I wouldn't help anyone and I wouldn't share as much info as I do because wouldn't it then be concidered grooming competition?Please people!PS. I also wanted to add that just because something is my opinion does not mean it is representative of any member of the HoP crew. We are each individuals with seperate ideas and opinions. The Convention is not a HoP thing, it is an idea cultivated by people on HoP but it is being put together seperate from the site (which is why it is not the Home of Poi convention). Please realize we are human and each with our own thoughts. I simply express mine more than the others. Thank you.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 23 February 2002).]

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Itsgottab


member
Location: NZ

Total posts: 244
Posted:basically pele the tone and content of your post is of a suprior nature which doesn't reflect your position amoungest many of the visitors to this site. the subject offered by basti related directly to the web page, so prehaps it was nesscessary to veiw it before commenting?????p.s. i love the way to ****** me off so much in just about everything you post here, it keeps me coming back.

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Pele, I certainly did not insult you. The pyrolympics represent a paradigm shift, and as I said - I will see what develops.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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maeon


member
Location: brisbane, queensland, australi...

Total posts: 40
Posted:I've been following the pyrolympics, both here (hop) and there (www.pyrolypmics.com). I had trouble finding this thread again cause "the search" failed me, due to the movement of the thread.My initial reaction was "international competition ...in europe only ...thats NOT FAIR." So I duly emailed the lovely Basti about just how unfair it was. Then I sat back and thought about it, and remembered I really don't have a competitive bone in my body - this is why I've quit nearly every sport I ever started. When the going gets tough, I just stop going. If the going is fun... well thats different.I know that we all spin for different reasons, money, art, fun, socialisation to name a few. There are also those 'perfectionists' who spin to be the best. I think for them the pyrolympics will be awesome - they'll have a ball. Those of us who spin for other reasons probably just won't go ...because its not our scene. The money hungry ones will keep chasing gigs wherever and whenever they can get them, the funsters will keep doing it in their backyards cause they like that roaring noise, and the socialisation freaks will keep trekking out to whatever weekly spinjams they can make it to. To each their own! I think thats what it comes down to. They pyrolympic committee can set up whatever kind of competition they like, with whatever judges, and whatever criteria. We all know that nothing is totally foolproof ...wasn't there just that big iceskating judging debacle in the 'real olympics?' So long as there is judging, someone will win, someone will lose and someone will complain. Thats just part of the deal.So I think the pyrolympics should go ahead - although I do think they should broaden the tryouts to include continents outside europe. If you don't like the criteria, the organisation, or the judges, don't take part. Its not like its the 'real' olympics, and the winners aren't about to get lucrative nike sponsorships or golden tokens to hang around their necks. If you don't want to compete, you don't have to, and you probably won't be missing much.Anything that gets fireartists together is a good thing, pyrolympics, International conferences, spin jams and moonfests included.maeon

Where in the world is the island I'm on?

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Twirl'N'Burn


Booojakasha
Location: Brisbane QLD Australia

Total posts: 121
Posted:Well said Maeon. People do twirl for all sorts of reasons, and it is only fair that we respect them as we would wish that our own reansos for twirling would be. For me I hunt down the weekley spin sessions around Brisbane with my mates each week. Fire fun and friends is what it is all about for me.

Simply an excuse to play with fire.

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maeon


member
Location: brisbane, queensland, australi...

Total posts: 40
Posted:so I'm guessing no-one else has any opinions?I meant www.pyrolympics.org naturallymaeon

Where in the world is the island I'm on?

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