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GottaLoveIt


GottaLoveIt

Sponge
Location: Stevenage

Total posts: 883
Posted:When doing the 5 beat weave, do I need short poi? At the moment they're about as long as my leg and being 6foot1 might cause a problem. I've kept them like this cause they look good for pretty much every other trick I know (not a lot). It's probably a given but I can't tell in the video if they swing directly infront of you when you cross over, do they do that? I'm still in a big mess with this trick.....
Mary
p.s You all must be p/o'd cause this has prolly come up before but I did a search and couldn't see anything on length


Monkeys monkeys and bananas

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:No, long poi should actually help, cos they go a bit slower. You don't do a beat in front of you like a buzzsaw.

Basically you cross your wrists over an extra time, and uncross them an extra time on the other side of your body.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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GottaLoveIt


GottaLoveIt

Sponge
Location: Stevenage

Total posts: 883
Posted:Thank you, I don't even know why I put this post in here, it was sposed to go in "Help" Why is waking up so hard? I "woke up" 4 hours ago and am still in a haze, didn't even go out last night, I should be fine!
sorry but I have lots of work to do and nothing is making sense
I'm going to go hit myself with poi and figure out how to do this move!!!!! Hopefully it will wake me up!


Monkeys monkeys and bananas

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.Morph.
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

.Morph.

addict
Location: Lancashire, UK

Total posts: 669
Posted:Hey Mary, try shorter poi & try spinning slower, both of these should help you get more control of the poi. The motion of the 5bt is the same as the 3bt in that it is done on one side then the other, not infront. Try moving you body to the opposite side to the poi as you move it across you body & exagerate this movement.
but above all else play

Hope that helps


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GottaLoveIt


GottaLoveIt

Sponge
Location: Stevenage

Total posts: 883
Posted:Cheers, it has helped, in about half an hour I've got either 4 or 5 beats on my left, and can cross over without hitting myself, now I've gotta learn the other side and figure out wether it's 4 or 5 beats, thank god for dark windows!

Monkeys monkeys and bananas

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:heh, this is complicated...

"3 beat weave" (aka The Weave) has 3 beats on either side.

"5 beat weave" has an extra beat on each side. So some bright spark said "3 beat weave plus 2 beats means that it's a 5 beat weave" despite the fact its only got 4 beats on each side and should be called a 4 beat weave. But the nonsensical name stuck, and so...

"4 beat weave" is an assymetric weave with 3 beats on one side and 4 on the other.

"6 beat weave" has 4 beats on one side and 5 on the other.

"7 Beat weave" has 5 beats on each side.

And to compound all this confusion Coleman says there's no such thing as beats anyway

EDIT: hey that was thousandth post

[ 17. November 2003, 05:07: Message edited by: simian ]


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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GottaLoveIt


GottaLoveIt

Sponge
Location: Stevenage

Total posts: 883
Posted:I've got an idea, I'll learn as many "beats" on each side as I can, then I'll meet someone and ask them what it's called. Sounds like a plan to me! I've almost learnt another move where my poi spin for 3 "beats" behind me (when doing windmill and my arms kinda resemble that of triple corkscrew, which I can't actually do yet...
Do you know what to call it?
Muchos thanks
Mary


Monkeys monkeys and bananas

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:3 beat windmill? Or at least half of one.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:DAMNIT COLEMAN! NOW LOOK WHAT YOU’VE DONE!

I’m pointing fingers SQARELY at my two buddies COLE and GLASS for creating this chaos. This is the kind of crap that I bitch about when you two jedi knuckleheads go postin’ theoretical crap that only confuses the mid level spinners.

Simian, with all due respect, you definition of ‘beats’ is wrong as it has been defined on Home of Poi for years. There is an OLD article which serves as the doctrine of ‘beats’ which has been up long before I joined.

http://www.homeofpoi.com/articles/beats.htm


Beats do exist. Especially for basic moves such as weaves. Beats ARE, WERE, and WILL ALWAYS BE the number of circles that one poi hand does before the pattern repeats. The Jedi kids have developed moves which can't be defined using this definition such as airwraps and hyperloops so they say things like 'beats don't exist' but they only mean for extremely high level spinners doing complicated moves.


Look at your right hand in a 3 beat weave. It does two circles on the left side and one on the right (over, under, out) before the entire pattern repeats.

A 5 beat weave does 5 circles with each hand before the given pattern repeats. For your right hand it's 3 on the right side, two on the left. This is fact and not up for discussion. THAT'S why it's accurately called a 5 beat. It has been defined this way since it was originally named and filmed on HoP. (A 4 beat is two circles on each side with each hand.... so one hand does 4 beats before the pattern repeats )

Cole, since apparently you are king god of poi, get your ass on this thread and defend what I’m saying.

And stop beat-bashing now because you’re confusing the newbies and-mid level spinners.

[ 17. November 2003, 06:40: Message edited by: NYC ]


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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GottaLoveIt


GottaLoveIt

Sponge
Location: Stevenage

Total posts: 883
Posted:Another thanks, and congrats to simian on his 1000th post!

I just got the triple windmill down, now I have to make it into corkscrew, and I can spin my poi 4 beats on the left and carry it across to the right! But then I get scuffed up but I'll keep working at it! My long poi are doing me justice, they still look good but whip my legs when doing horizontal work

Oh I've had a good day, saw my best too! Haven't seen her for a week, I love you Jen!!!!!!!


Monkeys monkeys and bananas

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:toby walker does weird things with spins.
like 4-club synchro doubles and then throwing one pair as one flat and one single reverse spin.

i saw jonnny and phil the finder of things holding a 7 club 4 count for about 12 passes on friday night.

i juggled my first half shower with wall plane singles that night too and got my 441 solid.

adam had a 4 club fountain for a good few cycles too

sorry what?
'poi', you say...?
'beats'?!
hmmmmmm, i think i'm on the wrong forum again, excuse me.

i personally agree with the veteran and oracle of all things poi, grand master nyc.
except for his observation of the apparent 'king god of poi' who is blatently not someone with such a limited experience of poi as myself.
i hereby nominate shiva to be the official hop god of poi.

**daed**era**staeb**


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:oh, don't get all upset about that 'beats don't exist' comment. It was meant to be tongue in cheek anyhow. And i thought it was carrys that mess up beats?

Still, i think what i thought seems to have more errors than i thought i thought.

ok i'm actually hopelessly confused now.

Turns out the 4 beat is what i've seen described as the 5 beat.

pff i don't care, extra beats are silly anyway :flounces off in a huff:


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:carries just do weird things to the placement of beats.

however, this is a great example of how the beat counting system is severely limited as a teaching aid.
for example, we can see from the past discussions of waistwraps that using the beat system to describe moves with carries results in major confusion.

you can count the beats in a waistwrap - there's four.
and you can count the beats in a carry - just one [i think ].
but does this help to convey the pattern to most people?

what do ya reckon nyc?


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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BamBam


BamBam

Pooh-Bah
Location: London

Total posts: 1810
Posted:IMO you need to see it to understand it.....or perhaps that's just me

Happy Swinging

Bammy


A kiss blown is a kiss wasted, the only kind of kiss is a kiss tasted.

I'm a woman. We don't say what we want, but we reserve the right to be pissed off if we don't get it. That's what makes us so fascinating and not just a LITTLE bit scary.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:god bless mot


Non-Https Image Link


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Mot


addict
Location: Netherlands

Total posts: 666
Posted:God, he looks like me!
*runs of to meet his comsic twin brother....


Come forth and thou shalt win enternal happiness. but he came fifth so he won an electric toatser.

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BamBam


BamBam

Pooh-Bah
Location: London

Total posts: 1810
Posted:Rahh to Sir Cole

A kiss blown is a kiss wasted, the only kind of kiss is a kiss tasted.

I'm a woman. We don't say what we want, but we reserve the right to be pissed off if we don't get it. That's what makes us so fascinating and not just a LITTLE bit scary.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:quote:Originally posted by coleman:

you can count the beats in a waistwrap - there's four.
and you can count the beats in a carry - just one [i think ].
but does this help to convey the pattern to most people?

what do ya reckon nyc? Beats helped me learn a waist wrap (I still can't do it BTB, which is what most people call a waist wrap but that's a flexibilty and timing issue.)

I spent a good portion of yesterday teaching people 5 beat weaves and 4 beat thread the needles. Two moves that ABSOLUTELY relish in the term 'beat'.

There are exactly 5 beats in a 5 beat weave and if you don't have 5 beats, you're doing it wrong. There are exactly 4 beats in a 4 beat TTN and if you don't have 4 beats you're doing it wrong.

This says nothing about dancing or flow or anything else... it's just for demonstrating a model move.

Since I spend most of my time teaching, I find that beats are absolutely essential. For example, I did a move and somebody asked what it was. I said "A 5 beat weave, I just twisted my body so I'm doing it in the wall plane and kept my hands close to my hips." They totally understood what I meant and were immidiately able to do it.

What I could have said was:
"There are no moves, you just gotta move with the music and let the poi flow around you and don't think about beats, just clear your mind."

But that would have been D!ck.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:Hey cool, if i'm wrong i'm not alone. On Mot's site he also reckons 4 beat and 6 beat are assymetric. So the naming convention must have gone astray somewhere.

i reckon beats aren't much help as a teaching aid, because as Gottaloveit demonstrates

quote:now I've gotta learn the other side and figure out wether it's 4 or 5 beatsCounting beats is pretty hard even when spinning relatively slowly. If you're trying to teach someone how to add extra beats, i'd do it physically, showing how the wrists are folding, not describing the number of circles.

* crosses his fingers and hopes that NYC isn't going to tell him off again *

[ 18. November 2003, 06:00: Message edited by: simian ]


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:and that's where the confusion comes in.

the beats are symmetrical - the hand movements are not.

this is true for all weave patterns that are even numbered.
take a two beat weave, the lowest numbered even beat weave - it is asymmetrical with respect to hand position since you can do it right hand on top or left hand on top.

like simian i prefer to teach 'extra loops' rather than 'x beat weave'.
more specifically, i highlight which poi 'leads' to the other side.
it wasn't until i learned 5bt in wall plane that i realised how much more sense it makes just thinking of these as 'extra circles'.

lastly, i think gottaloveit's counting problem stems from the fact that we do not count 'how many beats on each side' but rather, 'how many beats before the pattern repeats'...

of course, i might be wrong, so pinch of salt and all that.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:quote:Originally posted by NYC:
There are exactly 4 beats in a 4 beat TTN and if you don't have 4 beats you're doing it wrong. i wasn't going to point this out here but there is a little problem with this way of thinking dude.

if you don't have 4 beats, it is definitely wrong.
however, having 4 beats in a ttn does not neccesarily mean you're doing it right.

you can do a ttn with 4 beats that is not the 4bt ttn you mean here...


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:* Spends some time doing weave patterns with his arms and counting in his head *

Hey! My 5 beat weave IS the 5 beat weave after all! AND there are 5 beats in it!

That's a relief and a revelation.

The only problem was that i've never been able to count beats properly.

So indeed symmetrical weaves have odd numbers of beats, and assymetric ones have even numbers. That's really quite confusing.

And to think this was meant to be a quick question...


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Yes cole, there are infinitely many 4 beat moves that are not that specific 4 beat thread the needle.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

I only said "IF" it's a four beat thread the needle, it has four beats. Not, "IFF".

{Do you math nerds use that notation too?}


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:quote:There are exactly 4 beats in a 4 beat TTN and if you don't have 4 beats you're doing it wrong....Or youre doing it split time <<coughsixbeatscough>>

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:You need a better cough syrup Royal. There ain't no way you're gettin' 6 beats ... a normal split time TTN is 3 beats. Remember it's 'with each hand' until the pattern repeats.

Unless you're doing some crazy Dom style jelly armed twisty crap.

But the basic split time TTN is a 3 beat.

(Am I the only one who gets this?!)


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Yeah, my bad. Wasnt thinking for a sec. I meant 3 beats... But 3 /= 4 reguardless so the main point still stands

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Glåss
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:nyc + royal count again.
(heres a hint: theres 8 circles, 4 with each poi in TTN with an extra loop, done butterfly or split time)


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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:That hint was about as helpful as a rubber chicken. I still only count 3 circles with each hand during 4B ST TTN...

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:here's a quick notation on weave beats.. each start weith the left side ~ rigfht side~ left side ~ right side

2bt
R-L ~ R-L ~ R-L ~ R-L (also can be done with left hand lead)

3bt
L-R-L ~ R-L-R ~ L-R-L ~ R-L-R

4bt
R-L-R-L ~ R-L-R-L ~ R-L-R-L ~ R-L-R-L (can also be done with left hand lead)

5bt
R-L-R-L-R ~ L-R-L-R-L ~ R-L-R-L-R ~ L-R-L-R-L

6bt is like 2 and 4

7bt
L-R-L-R-L-R-L ~ R-L-R-L-R-L-R and so forth...


4bt TTN has 8 circles.. its easiest to see from the rev 4bt TTN because you can watch your hand do 3 circles and then the one large circle around the arm... and then the other hand does 3 circles and then one larger one..

one beat R&L as butterfly-like motion...
one beat each (small) left as right comes over the left arm
one beat each as a butterfly-like motion...
one beat each as the left comes voer the right..



More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:I love the way that any post with something like "quick question" as the title, never actually ends up being anything that even remotly resembles 'quick'.

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GottaLoveIt


GottaLoveIt

Sponge
Location: Stevenage

Total posts: 883
Posted:My fault! O well!

Monkeys monkeys and bananas

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