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Page: 123
Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:I wanted to put a few ideas out there for people to play with. These aren't Jedi. They're not new. They're not 'my' moves. There's a whole load of variations that lead from and to them. And I don't want people to start discussing them too geekily. They're just ideas to give to people who might not have seen them yet. And they all look better if you smile too.

The Wheelchair - Same time isolations at your sides between your arm and your torso.
This is just one member of a large family of moves (a family called 'poi moves'), but got a name because it was for too good a naming opportunity to miss! There's a whole load of other variations - split time, in front, internal to external, internal tuck-turns, etc... You figure them out.

Tap Backs
Spin backwards at your side, slowly. As the poi head passes 45 degrees past horizontal on it's rise release the handle so that the head continues towards you. Quickly bring your hand up to impact with the poi head, sending it back whence it came. The handle will be somewhere, grab it and keep spinning. Can also be done the other way, with poi coming over your shoulder.

These stem from seeing club juggling tap backs, which I can't do. These seem to work with my sock poi - haven't tried other socks/tail/fire/goblin/whatever poi. Speed, point of release and possibility of it working at all are dependent on your poi.

Mid Chain Grabs
Stop powering the poi so that you can move your hand from the centre of rotation and grab hold of the chain near the poi head, spin a revolution, then let go into the original poi circle.

Isolated Throws
Spin backwards. As the poi head reaches horizontal push the handle down. The poi will isolate and the handle will return to you.

Catches
Don't let jugglers have all the fun! Catch and throw your poi. There's two different ways to catch your poi:
pull - If you stop your hand giving poi circular momentum a small hand movement can pull the poi back into your hand. This makes catches nice and easy in all positions, and allows some great exaggerations.
fall - Just stop powering the poi and it'll fall. With practice it'll fall nicely into the palm of your had. This looks a bit smoother than a pull catch, but is a bit harder, especially when catching from behind.

Flatlining and Flicks
Gotta dig them cheesy names! Basically a pull catch which misses and so dissects the circle of poi movement and forms a semicircle. Bounce = flick from a Gilligan

Throws and drops
What else you going to do once you've caught it?

Bounce poi
Don't let bounce jugglers have all the fun! Put big bouncy balls on a rope (or buy a suitable dog toy) and find a flat, hard floor. If you've even seen club bounce juggling you know what I mean.

Enjoy



Leatherblood
Leatherblood

member
Location: M-town
Member Since: 2nd Sep 2003
Total posts: 11
Posted:THANKS I appreciate the ideas

bones heal and chicks dig scars


TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Dom, we be working on the same moves brother - Isolated throws are where it's at. We gotta get together some time, words can't do them justice.

easy

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.


musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:awesome..I was just wondering yesterday if throws could be isolated, but thought that isolations defined were where the hand travels around the poi head, but I jess you can do the same with the handle..

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."


Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:PPP - I'm sure our paths will randomly cross again soon, and I look forward to it

musashii - the concept of isolations is movement of the centre of rotation down the chain, so hands aren't a requirement. It becomes really funky when you also try to move the centre of rotation perpendicular to the chain.

Note: isolated throws are easier the heavier your hands are. I have poi with equally weighted ends that naturally isolate. Your standard fire chains need that push to compensate.



TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:I will have a load of isolated throws on video in a few weeks time, i look forward to showing you what i've been working on.

My rate of learning has just gone off on one again, getting my isolated throws down to a T, you can get 'em so the poi head 'floats' just above your opposite arm whilst the handle flicks round - dunno what i ever did before.

Certainly feels Jedi to me, pure magik, i'm so addicted to doing them because now i can spin whilst only touching the handles periodically.

Dom, we'll have to meet up 'cos I need someone of your calibur to do passing with,

until then,

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.


Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Oh my...

POI THEO(R)IST


Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:just realise.
If you throw a club normally, it spins around the middle.
laughs
if you throw yours 2's
eg in 234 the 2 will be isolated throw.
its a bit cheating, but never thought of it like that



oli
not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...
Member Since: 24th Jul 2003
Total posts: 2052
Posted:cool cool list of moves

the wheelchair thing sounds cool....


Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no


TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Hey Drew,

I agree that a 'regular' poi throw ought to be isolated but the center of rotation usually moves through the air.

To isolate it fully, you need to allow the center of rotation to stop dead, whilst letting the handle fly round the outside, yum, worked it seamlessly into my 'butterfly weaves' and looks, bling-bling. Puts a smile on my face just thinking about it.


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.


MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:Get it on vid PPP! Im a fan of isolations, not a big fan of throws. Im hoping isolate throws are what I need.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me


Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:poipoipoi i said clubclubclub.
then what i said makes sense AND is irrelevent.

I've only been playing with clubs recently, and it is nice to see the similarities.
I cant throw poi, or isolated throw them and certainly cant catch them like you and dom do, so much respect.



NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I like the tap backs. I don't really do throws so I'm not used to letting go and I've got some issues with handles but I've been having a bit of fun with them.

They'll be added to my 'D' game.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Glassglassglass, i hang on every word you say my friend. I love the similarities between club and poi throws. I used to teach poi over at sussex uni, where BJC was. And there I got to see loads of exellent club throwing. Unknowingly, that is where most of my exploration into throwing poi began.

I hate the term 'poi throws': I call for an instant change in names! You don't throw them anywhere, release - maybe.

This is certainly very interesting territory. I have found a lot of similarities with devil-sticks, once you start slapping the poi back and forth.

Royal: All in good time, I have a date to get everything i know about poi onto video. I will cover all the 'releases', along with throw/hyper loop and under the leg combos. I am working on a saleable DVD. It's gonna mix it up a little. Remember 1 thing..:Spherculism:..


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.


TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Okay, everybody, I have uploaded a short video of an 'outwards 360 release'

Sorry about the poor quality, it's the best i can manage today.

This ones for you Dom

Spherculism


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.


arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:great, another young upstart who wants to change the names of stuff other folks made up and sell them as his own on a dvd never seen that before

just teasing, now, just teasing...
feeling a bit pissssssy today


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.


arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:sorry you wouldn't get that unless you'd been around here a while

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.


TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Hey Arashi, I'd agree with you if I was gonna make any money out of the project. I certainly don't consider any poi move 'mine', possesion is theft

I just have a burning desire to show the world what i have learned in order that they can one day show me things I had never dreamed possible.

I don't have a problem with the names we have at present, just the way that the whole system is structured. For example, corkscrew and windmill aare the same thing, just different planes.

But what i'm working on is an interactive web based system for people to experiment with and show others what they mean. Nice little bit of web 3d.


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.


TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:I understand...

Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.


arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:cheers for taking my joke i was biting my fingers over here
i agree, i've spent many hours trying to deal with the HOP language problem, in fact i've used that very same example. been working on a poi/dance book for about a year now (and yes it's mostly stuff i taught myself ) and i promise my style has a much better language structure than the watered down HOP beginner based language. but we'll see if anybody else likes it...


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.


TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:This thing popped into my head whilst fully tranced out ot my poi.
Plural Zee Alpha
I was doing some butterfly weave stuff, and the words we have are usless.
I think it needs to be delt with more like a language. First off, we need to alphabet.
I wanna break it all down into the positions you can spin, orientaion of your body to the poi plane, and the pattern you spin.
Plural = both hands do same pattern in time
Zee = Z-plane, butterfly plane, shoulder plane
Alpha = Thread the needle pattern

Hence Plural Y alpha, turn your feet 90 degrees
Plural X alpha, same pattern, horizontal plane

Split Z Alpha, 3bt split time butterfly,

And so on - I think that the language we have adopted is fast running out of use.

You should see how upset people get when you suggest this stuff

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.


TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Anywho, did that video I uploaded work?

Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.


woodnymph
woodnymph

member
Location: london,uk
Member Since: 14th Sep 2003
Total posts: 313
Posted:like magick.....


MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:Nice, Tri-P (sorry, your naming system doesnt work for me) that TTN throw looks awesome. Gonna have to learn that one.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me


MikeIcon
MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Member Since: 27th Mar 2003
Total posts: 2109
Posted:Btw, are those poi counterweighted on the handles. I noticed they're sock poi and I know my sock poi dont flip like that with throws.

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me


TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Royal, I take my long socks and tie a series of knots to make a handle. My prefered knot for this is to make a loop, push another loop through that, another loop through that loop and so on, then tie it off at the end. That way you end up with a flat braid. Adjust the length of your poi depending on how quick you want them to rotate.

Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.


TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Thread the needle - as a name - sucks!

What we call Butterfly - is only half a butterfly, what we call TTN, IS a butterfly.

Words Words Words.

TO be honest, this whole 'Plural Zee Alpha' thing started off as a joke. But the more i've thought about it the more it seems to work. I have tried in vein in the past to adjust the language system but this time I may have just cracked it.

I'm not saying anyone else has to adopt Spherculism in all its glory but the emphasis on all of it is to AID LEARNING and UNDERSTANDING.

I just think that 'Double-Split-Time-Thread-The-Needle-With-360-Outside-Releases' is a little bit too wordy...Maybe its just me but I believe its time for a change


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.


bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:hello poi, i have to agree with you about the TTN sounds quite silly, but truly it is illustrative, and it the is already an acceptance that it is not a butterfly.

verbose names do seem cumbersome, but how else are we to distinguish between the plethora of subtle differences between each movement/variation?
methinks accurate verbose names for movements/variations are a lesser evil than swamping everyone with short idiosyncratic names.
short idiosyncratic names are quite more soundbyt worthy, but follow no conventions, and a naming system without conventions is just an arbitrary list of nicknames.

i do applaud your intentions to clean up the name game too.


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always


TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:quote: short idiosyncratic names are quite more soundbyt worthy, but follow no conventions, and a naming system without conventions is just an arbitrary list of nicknames.
Following strict conventions is essential to any language.

I'm not saying that everyone should adopt a new language system, what i am saying is that their are certain people who would benefit by adopting a refined version of our present 'code'.

That is to say, USE a refined language to explore possibilities and fuel learning .


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.


SpinSin2005
member
Location: Houston, TX
Member Since: 7th Sep 2003
Total posts: 7
Posted:Wow you all have some really great ideas... I don't know if you all have hear of this one but here it goes...
try spinning your poi in a vertical counter clockwise (alternate spin).. but inbetween your arms and infront of your chest... it forms a nice saw blade looking formation if you get them spinning right...

SpinSin


SpinSin the Sinister Fire Addict


musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:I suppose this reinforces your 100 monkeys idea PPP

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."


Page: 123

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