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PoiBox


member
Location: Bangkok

Total posts: 85
Posted:I am a little bit obsessed with proper plane control and have a really nice mindf*** for the more advanced spinners among you.

Do a reel (which I formerly called parallel weave but anyways: wall plane, same time, same direction, anti-clockwise) with arms crossed (left arm on top).
Now seperate the arms (go with the right arm to the right and the left to the left) so you are doing the normal reel. Now go on with this movement crossing your arms again but this time with the right arm on top.
This move till now is quite easy and should not be any problem - if not, dont even try the second part.
The second part, wich is the real challange, is the first just done backwards. Doing the reel anti-clockwise with the right arm on top going back to the normal reel and bringing the left arm on top again . . . easy !?!

In order to do this move you have to be capable of doing the reel really clean. Further more you have to have this extra twist of plane control (mini-isolations) for the second part or they will inevitably tangle!

Theory: The reel is a very flat X (from top view; right-hand Poi \ and left-hand Poi / ) - this move now forces you to change the planes of the Poi synchronously - the plane of the right Poi would start like / (arms crossed) go on like \ (normal reel) and back to be / (arms crossed again).
The first part can be done in one beat, circling the right hand just once around the left hand without changing the planes.
But as mentioned before - the way back is much harder and much more fun.

Once you master this one, you have less problems with what I call anticyclic moves - moves done against the "normal" flow of the Poi. Anybody with me on that track ?

cheers


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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:I really dont understand how this reel is done. Otherwise Id be trying this out right now

Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

-Me

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PoiBox


member
Location: Bangkok

Total posts: 85
Posted:The Reel

and good luck . . .


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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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laZy
BRONZE Member since Aug 2003

member
Location: Somerset...... England

Total posts: 94
Posted:I understand, cool.

The reel took a couple of going overs in order to understand but it's cool.

laZy


as laZy as .....

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yup, i got it.

what i really want is some way to get opposite spinning seperations, gonna havta work on top and bottom, and the sides on either side of the body i think, this stuff is disgustingly difficult.

on another twisty pplanes note, we really got to get on to thease 180 plane changes, newbies seem to do them without any effort, but try and do one conciously!!! grrrr

props to ya tho.

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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PoiBox


member
Location: Bangkok

Total posts: 85
Posted:Compliments Mr. Nx, although I feel offended that you got it that fast. Both parts in both directions ??? how close do you have your hands together ???

And now you have to explain to me what you understand under "opposite spinning seperations".
Btw: 180 degree plane changes !?! Wrap ur Poi

peace


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:humm, well, I got it all first time. but havent really been able to do it since, the reel is hard enough i guess. pretty close hands.

Another way to get the feel of this is from a standard weave, side plane. Just do it with one poi and like normal for forwards come across the other arm, round to underneithe then take it back to the top again, without transitioning back to tha poi-held side

been working steadily on the forward poi/backward arms thing since i discovered this, and while its awkward as, im finally begging to get a hand on it, theres a weird sort of "pull" to it, and a sorta isolation as you said.

L*r

Tom


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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PoiBox


member
Location: Bangkok

Total posts: 85
Posted:quote: been working steadily on the forward poi/backward arms thing since i discovered this, and while its awkward as, im finally begging to get a hand on it
Actually it is this forward poi backwards arm thing but much more advanced - arms crossing over and the hands close together doing one full rotation (told you it was an advanced move ). The first part is basic but the second part is where it begins to rock - and you are sure you got it the FIRST TIME?? (still full of grief and despair )



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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:think I finally figured out the sekrit to either way(hands moving forwards, poi backwards, n vice versa), n mebbe a way to answer that question you asked me a while ago Nyx?..

normally, when spinning, you push(or pull, depending on direction) the poi at 180 degrees(straight down). When tryin to do the previously mentioned moves, you shift that push/pull around 45 degrees beyond(best guess neh?), depending on your direction. not panic!


First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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duballstar
SILVER Member since Sep 2003

duballstar

slack rating - 9.5
Location: Suburbiton, Yoo-Kay, United Ki...

Total posts: 2216
Posted:ok. a few questions....

firstly surely a parellel weave must move from either side of the body for it to be a weave??

secondly... what do you mean by a flat X from above? when i spin both poi in parallel time in front of me anticlockwise i have them both on the wall plane with my hands apart. if i move them closer together i come out of parallel time and one hand begins to lead. are you suggesting that the poi cross each other?

i've managed to cross and uncross my arms spinning parallel in front of me but how many beats should the overall move be? is there just supposed to be one carry beat between each crossed arm beat?

because i don't get this flat x thing i can't help feeling i've got the wrong end of the stick.... confused


It is our fantasies that make us real. Without our fantasies we're just a blank monkey' - Terry Pratchett

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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:My all time favourite move !
And still in my oppinion the most difficult to master !

Probably it helps to use HOP newspeak:
The Plane Twister is a parallel Flower with the hands close together played in wall plane.

The Poi rotate in one direction and the hands wrap around each other in the other direction. Until it is not possible anymore - you could then for example change side to repeat it in the other direction (inverse parallel weave). or unwrap the hands and start over again (like a normal flower in wall plane)

And to answer the question:

Quote:
when i spin both poi in parallel time in front of me anticlockwise i have them both on the wall plane with my hands apart. if i move them closer together i come out of parallel time and one hand begins to lead. are you suggesting that the poi cross each other?


If the hands are apart there is no "X". If you bring your hands together you have to change planes a little bit (that would be the X from above) - otherwise one Poi would wrap around the other wrist. You can play a Reel (or however you wanna call it) with the hands touching. If one hand would speed up the Poi ineviably tangle.

Quote:
i've managed to cross and uncross my arms spinning parallel in front of me but how many beats should the overall move be? is there just supposed to be one carry beat between each crossed arm beat?


It is not about how many beats the move has. Like a flower there are no restrictions on the number of beats - one could say the less beats you need to cross and uncross the more difficult it gets. Dont forget: The hands have to be close together!


This IS the most difficult way of spinning i know so far - so if you for example have problems with isolations or normal flowers I would not waste too much time with this one.

anyway

good luck


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA

Total posts: 1269
Posted:let me make sure I ahve this straight... I'm supposed to do parallel circles in front of me with my hands together.. like this (the coding can't be exact but closest approximation) you can see roughly how they X because left is close on the left side and out on the righjt and right is close on the right and out on the left.. like a smae direction butterfly

Code:



r---\ /----l

l---\ \ / /----r

L R -> L R







that was top view... roughly.. and the hands should be slightly uneven just as with a butterfly.. to get the right angle.. but its much like an atom in the x shape..



and then I have to from the side view do this progression from me looking out

Code:



R L

-> L R -> -> R L

L R





(edit: changed because I can now get almost all around.. left hand goingfrom 4:30 to 1:30 but I'm almost certian I can go from 3 to 3 with it.. )



while they are still a parallel.. as the first diagram... and spinning counter clockwise.. and if someone watched from the front all they would see is one circle..





I just want to be clear on that... because if so then I got it.. the part that took the longest was actually getting the parallel circles with the hands together... because the slitghtest.. I mean slightest hair of that one speeds up and they begin to tangle up.. I dig it.. I find it easier than a counter flower.. which makes me think I have to be missing something.. but it definately requires more precision than anything I know..



(edit: thanks a bunch I should be on to this anti-spin business soon enough.. but I ahve a long ways to go.. its like compressing a flower into a single circle.. which helps to teach it since as you progress you can go for less and less beats.. all that anti-spin move stuff is starting to click.. )

EDITED_BY: Rev (1085437870)


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:you're talking about the "thread the needle" and adjacent parallel weaves layered together, all patterned in a flower, right? poipoipoi also did a thread about these- more commentary available in there for those interested. sorry can't remember the title. he's good, i bet there's more on his site, but i don't know
(oh and a brief mention of the principle was made by djdantana, responses by myself and glass, i think it was in the jedi thread, but i don't seem to remember it going anywhere) bounce


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Analemma


Analemma

enthusiast
Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:@ Rev: Thx for the diagram - You described them quite well - the more I cant beleave that you think they are easier than flowers . . . (actually they are perfect flowers)
You said "pressing it in one beat" - probably you only do it in one direction - for the other direction I need at least 3 to 4 beats - just like normal flowers

@ Arashi: Checked Hop and think we are talking about different moves. You got a link ?


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA

Total posts: 1269
Posted:I don't have it in one beat by far.. don't let me fool ya... and beleive me.. don't let me give the illusion that it is easy..it is by far hard as #$%^... but... i picked it up quicker then an antispin flower.. mainly because the flowers are slightly off.. and this ironically is easier when I make my hands do exact time.. not mostly exact but hair off time like my flowers evidently are..

the biggest problem is the switch at 12:00 and 6:00... OI... let me say that again.. OI...

but I can usualyl get it done in like 8 beats or so... which isn't near good enough to have it down.. but suffices for me to say.. ah..I got it..

I just wanted to know if this could be done in less then 4 beats.. thus producing a way to reverse spin.. kinda like nix was on about for a while.. I mean this seems to provide an excellent teaching tool for that and I'm wondering why I didn't notice this until yesterday or so...


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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Mr_Jedly
GOLD Member since Jan 2004

Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia

Total posts: 195
Posted:ooooh i finally understand what this is on about...
just had to go outside & practice... got the first one fairly quickly (left arm on top to right arm on top) in one beat.
the second part - right arm on top ---> left arm on top (spinning anticlockwise) i got it down to 3 beats... this is hard...
must........ get........2......beats........ meditate


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.

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Mr_Jedly
GOLD Member since Jan 2004

Mr_Jedly

member
Location: Perth, West Australia

Total posts: 195
Posted:w00t! got it in 2 beats now.
the plane change is the same as the ttn plane change in butterfly.

can get it in one if i seperate my hands... but thats cheating redface


We don't stop playing because we grow old,
We grow old because we stop playing.

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