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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > Wrap Theory...... Theres millions of them!

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yo,

I have been getting severly into wrap combos recently, and I thought id share what ive learnt. The aim here is for wrap combinations where the poi swing no more than 360 before recoiling.

************ WARNING! what follows is very long and highly technical! *************

so, to make matters simpler, i will deal only with arm wraps and leg wraps. All thease wraps are recoil wraps and work best with glowsticks.

Basic theory.

for each arm/leg there are thease diffrent wraps to combine:

hand on the same side as the wrap: top and bottom wrapping from the front. thease can be done with the hand being either horisontal from the arm or verticaly down (of course you can be vertically up aswell, and probibly horisontally behind but the latter is awkward and the former dosnt apply to the second section, therfore im ignoring them.

hand to opposite arm: there are top and bottom wraps from the front and the same again but from the back.

Wall plane hand to opposite side: top and bottom recoil from the front and top and bottom at the front of the body from waist wrap aswell as top and bottom behind the body in wall plane. For the legs you can wrap either top and bottom wall plane at the front or top and bottom of the ankle at the back.

thats the easy bit...

Combination Theory.

* I am using mainly arms for thease examples, but remeber that they can be mixed up with legs too, and any other places you can think of. *

In combination you have three elements, wrap timing, spin timing and turning.

Wrap timing: a wrap can either be accomplished every 360 degrees ie. going from top of the arm same side to bottom of the same side, or every 180 degrees (refered to in this post as click-clack wraping) eg. from top same arm wall plane to top opposite arm wall plane.

Spin timing is as usual, we have paralell time (both poi in the same direction at the same time) weave time (both poi in same direction but spinning opposite each other) butterfly time (poi spinning opposite directions meeting at top and bottom) and split time (poi spinning in opposite directions meeting at the sides).

Turning is the hard bit, and we will come onto that later.

Wrap weave:

a nice little combo and a good starting place for anything. its kinda like a three beat weave but instead of beats you end up with threee wraps on each side. thease wraps are consecutive, they happen one after the other, not at the same time. they are in side plane.

start forward spinning weave time. left poi recoils from bottom of left bicep followed by right poi, left poi then recoils off top of left bicep and then right poi comes to right and recoils off top of right bicep. left poi then crosses and recoils from bottom of right bicep followed by right poi. left poi comes back to the left and recoils from top left bicep followed by right poi then left poi recoils from bottom left bicep as right poi crosses back and recoils from top of right biocep, continue ad nausium.

Phew! that was the easy bit to describe!! basicall what happens is each poi wraps twice on its own arn and once on the opposite arm, hence wrap weave.

Butterfly and spit time wraps:

the diffrence between thease two really depends on hand position if your hand is horisontal to the shoulder and both poi recoil at the same time then its a split time wrap, if perpendicular (straight down) from the shoulder then its a butterfly wrap. you may ask what the diffrence is, and the diffrence is about turning, but as I said we'll come to that later.

All combos in this section have the poi recoiling at the same time, of course you could have butterfly position with split timing, and that would lead to consecutive wraps, but what is the diffrence between them and weave timing? it all gets horribly confusing so im gonna stick to the basics for now. again thease wraps all happen in the wall plane.

so with split time you have wraps at the front, poi on one side, poi on respective sides. One poi same side from the front other poi at the opposite side from btb, top and bottom. Once you move to butterfly position then you have click clack wraps between the arms and legs, either with both hand in fron, or one hand btb. eg left poi wraps top of left arm arm from front, right poi wraps top of left arm from the back, letft and right poi then travel down and recoil from underneith left leg. from ther you could go back to opposite arms, or both ot the right arm, or whatever.

butterfly wrapping like this is less complicated than the weave stuff, cos they wrap at the same time.

but here is where it gets intresting....

Turning (at last!):

ok, first of all a few excercises in the wall plane.

weave wraps:

poi wrap to opposite biceps/forarms. both poi stop at the same time on opposite arms. no problem.

Poi wrap to same biceps. again at the same time they stall, but on the bicep of the arm holding the poi.

from thease two positions you can either do:

a full 360 spin to the same position upside down eg. left poi stalls on bottom of right bicep, right poi stalls on top of left bicep. both poi recoil and travel 360 ending with left poi on top of right bicep and right poi at the bottom of left bicep. pretty basic, applies to same side stops.

or a 180 'click clack' wrap, eg poi start on opposite biceps, recoil and recoil again from same biceps.

got thoes, good.

In butterfly there are lots more. for 360 wraps you have both on opposite arms at the top to both on opposite arms at the bottom and vice versa. then you have the same manouver but to respective arms. then we get into click clacks, both poi hit bottom of opposite arms and then go to bottom of same arms, again this works on top. the last is both poi to one arm, one top, one bottom. to both poi other arm, same poi top and bottom.

this last one is a nifty move in its own right and Ill take a moment to descibe how to get it.

spin split time forwards, now stick your left elbow into the path of the poi, both hit it simutainiously! they bounce off and you quickly stick right elbow in to catch them both at 180 degrees from original wrap, now just bounce back and forth. (this sounds easy, but like all the butterfly wraps in the wall plane requite perfect plane controle)

Right, now we have all thease sorted we can turn from side plane wrap combos, through the wall plane and across to the other side.

If your doing wrap weave and you have just wrapped each poi and on its respective arm then when you turn into wall plane the poi will next wrap onto opposite biceps.

try forward weave time, hit right poi off right side first, then left off fleft side then turn to left putting both biceps out you will end up with poi on oppsite biceps. from her you can click-clack or go straght into wrap weave facing the other way.

If however you take left poi off bottom of left arm first followed by right poi off bottom of left arm and then go to wall plane then the left poi strikes the bottom of your right arm as the right poi is recoiling from the bottom of the left, this put you in butterfly time.

Thease are the reliable things I know about turning, Im posative there are another 4/5 ways to do it, but i think this post is long enough dont you?

After all that text Ive only really desribed some basic combos, the wrap weave can be mixed up with more btb wraps and I havent even mentioned ww wraps in the side plane. I could also point out the 'curtsey' in the side plane, which alows wrapping from infron and behind the body off the leg, front poi comming of the knee, back poi off the ankle, combine it with some 'tracers' maybe.

The world of wrap combos is pretty huge, hopefully you can see the potential descibed here and thats only from 4 wrap points! if we start getting neck wraps, handcuffs ect into the picture too then it becomes horrendously complicated.

Biggup the glowstickers for inspiring me on this quest, please feel free to add your moves and ask questions and thank you for sitting through this. If you didnt manage to sit through it, I quite understand!

Love to you all,

Tom

[ 14. October 2003, 11:15: Message edited by: [Nx?] ]


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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pozee
BRONZE Member since Jul 2001

old hand
Location: san diego, USA

Total posts: 886
Posted:wraps are infinite...
i cant stop...


anyone got a light?

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol, United Kingdom

Total posts: 2523
Posted:sh!t.
I was just going for the longest must boring and most technical poste ever over on another channel, and you just kicked my arse.
Taaah
you win.
Hugs
Glass


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA

Total posts: 1269
Posted:yeah I've been into wraps a lot lately too.. part of the reason I shortened my chains... I know you said you prefer wraps that go no more then 360, but I ahve to say its the longer wraps that open for so much...

for instance, you can do a drill wrap where they spiral all the way around the hands, and then recoil out... its nice.. it spirals.. no big deal.. it kinda zooms in and out for the person watching...

variation: pulls them instead of recoiling.. and then they spiral down and keep spinning a small circle around the wrapped part until they suddenly launch back out into the big circle.. (best done with one handed butterfly on the opposite arm, but can be done with two-handed moves as well)

another variation: pull your hands apart as they are recoiling so that it looks like your hands are opening up the circle made by the poi...

the above can all be done with both the weave and the butterfly..

all the shorter wraps add a more freestyle dimiension... I like to take and start with my arms sperated bicep wrapping (split time) and then bring them over into double bicepwraps (as described above..)right poi under left bicep right poi over left bicep, right poi over right bicep, right poi over left bicep, right poi underleft bicep, right poi underright bicep.. (left poi stays opposite [ left poi over right bicep, under right bicep, etc..] throw in a leg here or there.. and then go into a weave or something to get it BTB and start theprocess over..

haven't found a decent way to wrap from front to back yet.. but I still have a lot to learn wrap wise... it seems every timeI learn something.. I hear about 4 or 5 new things.. again.. I say wraps are like freestyle poi.. especially to a break beat..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yo rev,

thoes were the 'handcuffs' I was refering to at the end, the 360 thing is just gos it totally decives the eye when they are constantly reversing directions, and its also the mark for wrap combos, its not totally ridged but as a rule as soon as you compleate a whole spin its no longer a combo.

oh corse theres a thing i havent mentioned here which is 180 wrapping one poi whilst 360 wrapping the other. hummmmmmm

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:there are a few groups of people to watch for this stuff. "photon" or "Fred Yates", The chicago glowstick video, and the austin video. These people have the stuff down. A aspire to emmulate them succesfully (with fire) ....

good post nix?



we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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.Morph.
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

.Morph.

addict
Location: Lancashire, UK

Total posts: 669
Posted:what's a weave?

Respect


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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:One thing thats come from playing w rope dart is different turns with wraps, usually ending in throws(lately off the elbow or ankle/foot). How this has worked it's way into poi for me is kind of a combination of a thru wrap and a recoil wrap..I'll explain it from the ankle, but it works from the elbow as well(tho I can get it from the ankle most consistently)..All thru wraps end with the poi spinning in the same direction, and usually most recoil wraps end with the poi going in the opposite direction. If you are able to shift the recoil wrap across the body right after the recoil, the poi ends up exiting in the same direction as it entered the wrap. So say you're wrapping forwards on the left ankle, left poi, after the recoil(actually a little before), you would move your left leg across to the right side, and the poi exits still spinning forward. Somethin to play wit

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Gonna take me a few reads me thinks but thank for the writing...

quote: If you are able to shift the recoil wrap across the body right after the recoil, the poi ends up exiting in the same direction as it entered the wrap Thats one I never thought of

Through wraps are what I'm hooked on at the minutes...too sweet really adding neckwraps and bicep wraps in weaves and flinging my body round the shop


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:quote: Through wraps are what I'm hooked on at the minutesSame here..I've actually switched to longer chains just so I can use more complicated thru wraps..Sounds like youre doin a neck thru wrap mid weave too eh

How bout this? If you wrap right bicep(left poi) first(from split time forwards bfly), then left(right poi), when they exit youre in a butterfly hyperloop that puts you back into the forward butterfly..


First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Nice post RaVrNiX?

Hey don't forget Old Skool Wrapper CRD's epic post:

56+ Wraps

It's legend.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Brits doing wraps!!!! !!!!
NYC, I blame you for this!!


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:Doms right im afraid, it is NYC's fault,

and kenns, of course.

Im not shure about this recoil-through idea, if
you wrap say the elbow backwards, recoil off the forarm then turn the wrap it recois twice? no?

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Yet another example of American imperialism.

Congratulations RaVrNiX, you've been liberated.

Drink Pepsi.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:[I'm actually more proud that this thread starts with the word 'yo'.]



Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:ey Nx?,

dunno how your doin it, but if I wrap backwards(360 degrees) around my elbow, the recoil is off the bicep, not my forearm ???


First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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The_Pirate_Dyke_Boy


The_Pirate_Dyke_Boy

HOP Lord of the Pirate Admiralty
Location: Canterbury, UK

Total posts: 1079
Posted:erm im just gonnaprint that off then read it.

you are truely a HoP jedi


and have too much spare time on your hands


D.B.
X x X x X

Ship off the starboard! sound general quarters! noise and light discipline! man the cannons! GET ME THE RUM!

Master of the Free Hug Program

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:NYC: its a good word to start such a mamoth post.

Mushashi: just depends how long your chains are, i always tend to go off the the forarm cos you can pust it in/out to get the optimum strike point, its a chain-whip survival tactic.

Dyke boy: What do yo mean too much time? I been meaning to write that thing for weeks!

I was gonna add more, but i think ittl keep till i tried stuff out.

L*rz,

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:ahh, ok I see what you're sayin now..no, I only get one recoil, tho the timings trickier from a backwards wrap.

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:ohh, i think i see now, its not wrap, recoil, trasition, unwrap, but wrap, reacoil and transition, unwrap, its like a partially stalled through wrap. no?

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:yep, thats it..It doesnt feel like much of a stall to me, I dunno. Again I think it looks better for ankle wraps because it feels smoother, looks better..

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:I get you, you dont actually have to recoil, you can do thease with stalls too.

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:hmm, stall eh? now I'm confused, might be a good topic to start for someone who has some time on their hands *nudge* *nudge*

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:eg.

take poi backwards and drop it over your shoulder, stall it there (straight down) and at the same time transtion your shoulder and start the poi up again, it sort of wiggles and comes out going the same direction.

T

[ 16. October 2003, 03:36: Message edited by: [Nx?] ]


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:What homie? Take that last sentence, take all the words out and add new ones.

Thanks.


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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:is that better?

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:ahhh, ok, gotcha

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Makes more sense now. It's a stall with a restart in the original direction?

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
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musashii


musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA

Total posts: 1148
Posted:actually you don't even have to wait until the crossover before restarting..this looksa pretty good front to back eh..now if I could get it to wrap btb after restarting

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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Matt Therapy
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

newbie
Location: SE England

Total posts: 7
Posted:I had a look through the threads but couldn't find any direct reference to this question, so here goes -

Does anyone do spiral wraps with fire poi?

I've seen some people doing quick wraps and catches with fire, and these thigns are easy enough with normal poi, but I just wondered whether I'm likely to use the skin off my fingers by trying this.


Minds are like parachutes - they only work when they're open

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