Page: 1234
shadow steppin
shadow steppin

official hop irken
Location: Tucson USA
Member Since: 12th Aug 2003
Total posts: 401
Posted:ok i have searched and i cant determine if there is any difference between hyper loops and air wraps. it sounds like the same trick to me. is it?

In my hands I hold your smile and in my heart it runs so wild You are the one you are unique I'm so in love you make me weak And the reason that I feel is like a shadow from a light so if you have the chance to be with me be my shadow in the night

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:so, you see, Glass, your group is probably not the first to use the term "airwrap". So, that sort of cancles out your whole "we named it first" thing. I belive "airwrap" was probably in existence long befor we used the term ourselves.

Like I said befor. I would be happy to have ONE naming system, but it needs to be understood. and it need to be easily understood by all parties...

Look at my above list.

The names must incorperate all the things I mentioned.

Chain wrap position, symetry, hand possition, poi motion, etc, otherwise it would be incomplete.

Anywyas, should I simply come up with my own?

You realize other people call these things "gordian knots"?


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:
OK, a clarification:
There is no UK group. There is no London crew. There are probably a hundred different random and loose collections of poi spinners in the UK, a few dozen in London alone, and a thousand groups of jugglers. They're generally labelled things like 'the Sheffield lot' & 'those Bristol guys who we met at the convention' for reference purposes only. All these groups intermingle to different extents. I don't believe any of them have names they go by unless they're professional performers, in which case that name is only used when refering to their professional work. None of them are 'crews' in what I understand the word to actually mean.

That's what caused me to write this post, and I probably should stop now. But that'd be boring.

I think there's a fundamental difference between Dan and Glass which means that you'll never work together to name moves or evolve knowledge.

Glass does not teach moves, he gives clues to understanding.
It makes sense. I regularly see learning by rote from one teacher lead to stagnation. Whereas understanding leads to further understanding and creativity.

And names do not matter. To everyone out there wondering what the difference between move x and y is - you're wasting time 'cos it doesn't matter. What matters is that people have fun, explore their own potential with poi. And the dance. The dance is very important. And the smile. The smile is really important.

I can see why it's useful to have a naming convention for reference on HoP, but you can't because there's always new people adding further complexity and confusion. And newbies so often don't read through old posts and threads. And if we did have a naming convention I think that's a step down the road to stagnation. Imagine people all over the world doing the same moves with the same names. Eeek! No thanks.


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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:EDIT... please ignore til ive also read dom thru and theru for some sanity... ouch.


will put in my 73 cents in a while when i've read and re-read all the above again.


but personally i think you're both wrong...and both right.


mostly right tho.




Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:right.


thanks dom. i thnk you have highlighted the major difference here...
neither of you take offence please....although if you do i expect good reason and

dan it seems you see it your mission to teach the world the dan style... which is lovely if you like that sort of thing. but it means sometimes impetuosity and disappointment that the world does not see things your way leads you to get angry when people disagree with you. my advice to you is to stick with naming things as you always have. then people will learn more quickly. BUT do not expect full agreement. do not expect that spinners the world over work/act/behave in the same way. as dom said there are no crews in the uk... we don't work like that. we share all accross the country without prejudice or rivalry or pride in our home cities talent. All this leads to a vast sharing of skills that doesn't need video all the time to be transferred between people(britain is pretty small). so don;t get angry cause we don't make videos all the time. and espescially cause we don't post teaching videos cause in general thats not how we work.

drew i have to agree with you on shadow stepin working this one out for him/herself(sorry no background check ) but i disagree with your fundamental descriptions. and i also feel you too have a problem with other peoples attitudes towards teaching innovative stuff. hence, as you say, not trying to teach it through the medium of words but giving ideas(my spinning would be impoverished without you).... and i thank you for the best(truly) poi workshop i have ever been to (@EJC). but i think you should chill a bit towards dan and see that he is trying something different too you and accept that for what it is. if you don't like it and feel it is still angering you i think you should agree to disagree and leave your respective fields to each other. cause it seems really obvious(to me at least) that you spin totally differently to each other and appear to have little influence on each other(apart from arguing) (if what you say about discovering hyperloops independently is true dan )

anyway. thanks to dom for sanity.

could put more but you'd be bored by semantics(again)

over and out


R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:"you (and your boyz)"

i feel so ghetto.

west side story style ghetto obviously - the dancing and the smiling (and the singing) is what makes the cru...


Non-Https Image Link


just wanted to say a little about video:

i love videos.
and with the increase in quality of production seen around these parts recently i am certain they are the best resource we have for sharing skills over large distances.
however, video is not a qualifier for skill.
if one doesn't have the time/equipment/skill/inclination to record and edit a video that includes all their variations of a particular moveset it doesn't mean they can't spin it or that the filmed moves are the sum total of their skills.

for example, i've *never* seen dom on a video (some say it's because he's too tall to fit on a tv screen) and similarly, the stuff i've seen blookat do on video is only a small fraction of the shit i've actually seen him spin (but then who would really want to download a video of a scotsman doing 23 airwraps in a row? ).

video imho should be semi-performance a la juggling videos (even skate videos to a certain extent).
but seeing as i'm one of the lazy bastards that never gets round to editing anything i don't think i count...


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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BamBam
BamBam

Pooh-Bah
Location: London
Member Since: 1st Dec 2001
Total posts: 1810
Posted:Hmm videos please?????????

Bammy


A kiss blown is a kiss wasted, the only kind of kiss is a kiss tasted.

I'm a woman. We don't say what we want, but we reserve the right to be pissed off if we don't get it. That's what makes us so fascinating and not just a LITTLE bit scary.

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:quote:Originally posted by DJ Dantana:
side by side, mid-chain, oposite side exit, buzzsaw weave is the one I do a lot. most of you have seen it.
Wow that's a mouthfull, I reckon a less verbose name would would be nicer

quote:
The names must incorperate all the things I mentioned.

Chain wrap position, symetry, hand possition, poi motion, etc, otherwise it would be incomplete.
Not necessarily, the names 'butterfly' or 'windmill' don't tell you which directions the poi are moving or anything about hand positions and movement, they're just names to call the moves.

How about we all call these moves names that are shorter and easier to remember and use your ideas on naming conventions to describe them to people with text?

That way we get nice sounding names and a way to describe them to each other without having to invest in expensive camera equipment

So, I propose we rename the hyperloop 'The Randy Badger'. Anyone fancy seconding that?


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:Ok, but only cause my star sign is a badger.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:Fantastic, motion carried

It'd be greatly appreciated if people could go through their posts and amend every instance of 'Hyperloop' to 'The Randy Badger', thank you.



But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:BlooKat, You mentioned glass's teachin style, about giving hints and such. Arashi does the same thing. They don't make videos, they teach us by pointing us in directions and leting us get there on our own (or get "somewhere" on our own).

WHile we may not like it, it does have advantages.

While it is painful to go through, it brings us to high levels....It does not lead to ... as you say "stagnation"

If glass had simply made videos of everything (or if arashi had) we all might have simply copied his style and not developed my own.

Yes, it is frustrating at times, trying to sort out all inuindoes and clues and hints.

And it is better that way, even if I do not always like it.

Our teachers often have ways of noticing our weaknesses, and this is painful, but it is neccisary.

Well, I am going to china for three weeks, so I will be out of communication mostly.

I just want everybody (especialy Glass) to know I am not angry (but I WAS frustrated at the time). I never ment to come off as angry. I hope if there is any offence it will be forgiven.



bye guys.

P.S. Blookat, I don't want everybody to learn "the dan style" that would be boring and awkward. I simply want everybody to be able to communicate effectively. I see now that it will never happen completely. So I guess I must forget about it and simply work on making videos and teaching in my own way.

P.P.S. I want to shout out to my "crew" west side (of the atlantic) be-atch!



we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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shadow steppin
shadow steppin

official hop irken
Location: Tucson USA
Member Since: 12th Aug 2003
Total posts: 401
Posted:i like chickens

In my hands I hold your smile and in my heart it runs so wild You are the one you are unique I'm so in love you make me weak And the reason that I feel is like a shadow from a light so if you have the chance to be with me be my shadow in the night

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musashii
musashii

starring Skippy the green llama
Location: Seattle, WA
Member Since: 14th Dec 2002
Total posts: 1148
Posted:tell the truth now, you guys play Dungeons and Dragons dontcha

First intention, then enlightenment..
Ars Pyronomica

" Life is programmed. Whether death is programmed or not is yet to be determined."

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:hey it's me i been slaving like a dog for months but now among other things i have a collapsable 800 square foot hardwood ballet studio dance floor on a rivershore in my backyard pics to come soon

everybody's getting all talky

gordian knots, gordian knots, gordian knots.
that's just the bene gesserit name for the airwrap family, cause they will befuddle and i like to carry my crysknife and sword around and help people cut them open. anybody playing with some cool trinity knots yet? i'm finding even more butterfly/weave hybrids in the butterlfy waistwrap trinities, crossing over during the middle of one poi's beat so one poi changes direction, sort of a mid beat stall/direction change during the knottedness. then you are in the spider(sorry "weave") hyperloops and as everybody knows if you are going the wrong way and they are wrapping instead of unwrapping, (math ooops!didn'tcarrytheoneooowyhot) just turn and isolate both hands together to keep the momentum going and they will unwrap. he likes it hey mikey! tonight i will try to see if i can go from a turning trinity 5 beat bfly waistwrap airwrap/knot to a one poi wrist recoil or abovementioned stall (now you are doing a 3 bt hyperloopish thing) then a turn to a (naturally) infinite beat isolated weave inversion while the chains are still knotted between my arms, then when i finish the inverted weave cross one hand over (as in the 5 beat ttn inside) and the knot will jus pop! and disappear. or not, we'll see... am i rambling confusing babble shmabble? -looks up- uh oh- chew on them terms and get choked my point? uuuh, how can we possibly teach this way?

i say, if you really want to universally name these things- wipe the endless description slate clean, clear your minds, take a deep self empowering breath, and submit utterly to my will. slave, fetch me my bong and slippers and i MIGHT show you my jedi lunchbox with matching insulated thermos. or my (uncharacteristic ) mah jiin buu style collection of chocolate transformed newbies.

for more on the prefix hyper, and why it is so cool, and why, whether they knew latin or not, them london boys done good, read the animism and dimensional theories thread. (shameless advertising) i like hyper because it implies a dimension that exists in the same space but occurs at a different frequency, (google for hypercube animations.) but i say, hey, if you're gonna go with the names the londoners assigned, go with their original definitions whenever possible. that's just good ole props. or just call them something else. badgers? hmmm... badgers are great. for breakfast

another long and meaningless post from your freindly neighborhood 3 beat spider man

[ 09. October 2003, 10:14: Message edited by: arashi ]


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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shadow steppin
shadow steppin

official hop irken
Location: Tucson USA
Member Since: 12th Aug 2003
Total posts: 401
Posted:chickens are kewl... but they can be peckers sometimes

In my hands I hold your smile and in my heart it runs so wild You are the one you are unique I'm so in love you make me weak And the reason that I feel is like a shadow from a light so if you have the chance to be with me be my shadow in the night

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:thats mental.

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:actually, i just re-read dans original inflamitory post, and i gotta say, thats out of order, you cant go "much respect, not personal" in one sentace and then be offensive and personal in the next.

I would suggest that you know nothing about glass and his teaching habbits, and for the record i never seen a text desription off you I could follow past the conceptual basis.

if you dont do text, why you here? glass just lets you know its possible, and that all i kneed. I have gotten reams off staff stuff from glass's text descriptions, and make them myself. its what hop is about.

I know you appologised now, but down boy! the cat is out of the bag as far as hyperloops are concerned, call them tangles or knots, but they still a throughwrap with poi on poi.

i want more discussion, ther are turning buzzsaw hyps comming out no, and all sorts of funky things with islating the tangle before moving it, aswell as thease odd 4 beat airwraps.

lets bust it up, Blackass can tell us a thing or two.

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:yah!




seem to find everything funny right now...


for tom for being tom-like.


respect to mr Blackass. this man does things i don't understand with poi...


and to drew cause i saw him yesterday and he gave me lots of ideas.


oooh the fluffiness of hop some times


R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:"and for the record i never seen a text desription off you I could follow past the conceptual basis"

nix?, that is exactly what
I am talking about! that is why I have been so admant about asking poeple to share these briliant concepts ON VIDEO... you may very well be able to understand all of G's stuff on text, but you also have the advantage of SEEING him once in a while, thus allowing the hints to make some sence...because you already have some understanding of his style.... duh....

For we who are stranded in the middle of the fricken wilderness, I guess that leaves us "shit-out-of-luck".

That is why I have made it my personal quest to spread knowledge to others through a usefull and easily understood format

Anyways, I still haven't heard you describe that funky "chain wrap" you did on COL4.. that think was wicked

I know, I know, I saw it on sacred "video" but I don't have the DVD version yet and this is one of the extreamly rare times when video has failed me. I guess that means my "video is superior" argument can eat 5#1T too...


Anyways, I love ALL you guys, and I have (in the intrest of co-operation and brotherhood) decided to radically alter my naming style in order to honor G and da crew. (for the record I didn't know I had the definitions wrong untill recently)

What I formerly refered to as a "hyperloop" (double mid chain-on-chain thru wrap) will now be refered to as a "NEXUS".


Main Entry: nexus
Pronunciation: 'nek-s&s
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural nexuses /-s&-s&z/; or nexus /-s&s, -"ss/
Etymology: Latin, from nectere to bind
Date: 1663
1 : CONNECTION, LINK; also : a causal link
2 : a connected group or series
3 : CENTER, FOCUS

more details to come

(yes, china does have internet, but I will not have it 100% of the time)


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:yo,

a: For the first year and a half of lerning i never met anyone from Homeofpoi, and glass can attest that by the time i did my contact was already well advanced. during that time I swapped many moves by text only very sucessfully.

b: I cant watch videos as a rule, unless theyre animated gif's. I dont have the means to make any. For this reason i entered the last 2 col vids.

c: and this is a point I made in the staff moves section, language survives by use, and in this case the use has been fairly well established, no matter the etimology behind thease terms, because that etimology is essentially false, as the terms describe moves that didnt even exist a few years ago. Besides, hyperloop is a damm cool name.

I dont think nexus is a good term either, its to closely related to 'node' which impies multiple connections and static position, nexus is too wide a term for thease moves.

The "chain wrap" (?) move i assume your refering to the bf to weave hyperloop trasition is actually my least favriot bit of the video, its messy as, thease days i do the forward version which is much smoother. and the reason i never described it is cos i dont really know how it works, it just does.

well, arnt we getting fiesty?

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:Fiesty... grrrr, :grabs in teeth and shakes: ... down boy...

Can't describe it? Yes, I was afraid of that, I have a few "chain wraps" that I can't describe because I (also) do not know how they work...

Anyways, for the record, I also was forced to learn a great deal befor I ever heard of "hop". Jedi White can attest to that, as he is stuck out here in the wilderness too. We were forced to develope a great deal befor we found this comunity. Even afterwards, as of a year ago we were the only "spinners" within 800 miles of here who could do more than a 3 beat weave. so yea, it sucks to be us....

You UK boyz do not realize how good you have it, what with other peopel you can actually see do things...

actually, I like the word nexus, it best describes the way I view my style.

I like to focus on the intersection and where it moves, as opposed to hand position. there are major differences between the variouse styles of chain wraps, so I think this word serves my own style best. like it or not, untill I find a better word (not sure I will) I think I will stick with nexus. (sorry )

I like the word too. It doesn't imply non-motion it mearly describes... well look at above deffinition.... the way I view chain wraps focuses mainly on the possition of the "nexus" and where it moves to, as opposed to hand possition, etc... which is what this is all about.

Anyways, it saddens me to give up the word "hyperloop", as it is such a cool word, but live and learn...


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:hah!

(i know how it works...)


and could teach it to you really quickly if you were standing next to me.

as cole smallone? blackass and tree will tell you


but right now i've got 11 minutes and 12 emails.

ciao
x


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:"NEXUS" is what the front of my schoolbus is gonna say, in the destination slot, as soon as i get around to it. (another one of my favorite words.) AFTER the frustrating time consuming halloween show. which dantana wants to be in.

anybody figured out the relationship between inverted weaves and maxi plus yet? circuitous
HINT HINT HINT


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:sorry man, I'll be in China untill the 2nd of november... so I can't make it, blame it on the govenment and paperwork delays.... I tryed to send a PM but your box is full



we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:i saw no less than 6 (and no more than 15) new airwraps last night

a lot of them were 'hyperloop style' (moved to the other side of the body to unwrap) but the tangle was about a third of the way from the heads.

so now i really don't know the difference between an airwrap and a hyperloop

personally, i think i'm going to call all of it airwraps and have done with it.

and i saw two tricks worthy of the name 'gordian knots' - poi swinging meets cub scouts (bluecat definitely earned his 'knots' badge last night ).


what's the plural of nexus then...?


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:quote:Originally posted by coleman:
personally, i think i'm going to call all of it airwraps and have done with it.
thank the lord, I REALLY hate the word hyperloop
it sucks hard

now what would that alanis morrisette have to say about that?

robs crazy knots, they're mad,love them.
sorry couldn't make it to spitz. I spent the night working on trying to do a 4 ball cascade.

[ 16. October 2003, 00:31: Message edited by: Glss ]


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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:yup. i think after last nights shenanigans i will also stop using hyperloop. its just a variety-airwrap.


cole i think the double end catch and throw out was my favourite(apart from the reef knot....not really a trick to be show twice tho )


R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:blooooookat
reefer knot?!?!
you're not allowed to name moves after the drug you were on when you found them
it's against the rules
or else we'd be inundated with names like "acid knot #158"


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:its odd that you think of them that way dan, The part where they join just transitions, whatever the hyperloop, i always think of hand positions, because thats what changes the look of the thing, for example the biffrence between a buzzsaw Hyp and an Maxi-plus is that the hands are crossed for the maxi.

also with standard hyp's say backwards left to right you can have the right hand on top, or the left hand ontop, but the point of wrap stil does the same thing.

Blue, why am I unsuprised?

T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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tenticle
tenticle

enthusiast
Location: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:
Member Since: 13th Aug 2002
Total posts: 275
Posted:quote:Originally posted by [Nx?]:
for example the biffrence between a buzzsaw Hyp and an Maxi-plus is that the hands are crossed for the maxi.
The hands are *where* for a maxi plus??? I've been calling a maxiplus a buzzsaw hyp that you enter and exit with a 3 circle hyp that you start from crossed arms.
How do you get into a maxiplus properly? and how do you keep your arms out of the way?

--Ben


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