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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I was sitting at my laptop playing Mah Jongg last night and while I gave myself this little window of time to play I kept extending it so that I could continue to try to beat the my best time in the game (I never did btw). I play solitaire when I travel too, and I do the same thing, play until I beat it. When I practice a new move I push myself really hard until I get it (normally it has to be that day no matter how long it takes...hasn't always worked for me though). I worked through Bec and Elkes staff book in two days and the *only* reason I stopped on day one was so that I could read books and spend time with my son, and I was *almost* irritated that I had to stop. Last night I also cleaned my room and though it was painfully late, I pushed until I finished.I realise, we talk about competition with one another, surpassing mentors and boasts and such, which is not a big deal to me. BUT I realised that I am horrific when it comes to competing with myself. If I get it once I have to do it better. If I did it slow then I want to do it faster. I push until I am done, even if it means it's past my own breaking point (frustration, exhaustion, etc), and then I push to get it "perfect". I think I do this to stay on my toes. To keep things moving for me. For focus and drive and to keep topping myself, to keep me challenged. I know as a result my writing is getting stronger, my performing is getting better and I can clean my house faster than I used to
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. I also realised last night though that I need to keep the "just a little more" attitude in check because I think I have been driving myself into the ground for it. I know there is no such thing as absolute perfection, only perfect for me in that time, but I still strive for it.I think we are all at least a bit in competition with ourselves but I wonder how many will defeat ourselves striving to top ourselves. What do ya'all think? ------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Code128


member
Location: Boston, MA USA

Total posts: 69
Posted:Pele,The old masters in the Art World felt that to create perfection was to spit in the eye of god as he is the only being that can create perfection.Because of that belief there is always a small mistake in their work, as an homage. Maybe you need to add some small mistake to everything that you do to fall into favor with the gods and reap the benefits in the rest of your life. Code128

------------------
A.N.T.H.E.L.I.O.N

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Twist


member


Total posts: 160
Posted:like i said somewhere else... that's what makes it art to you...

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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:Spit in God's eye by creating perfection?I've heard this tale many times now and still laugh at it. If they think that they are so good at art, that what they are capable of creating can equal God's creations, then they have a few screws loose.Nothing is ever perfect, people like Pele get a lot closer than the rest of us, sometimes to the point where mere mortals (
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) like ourselves cannot tell the difference between what she does, and our image of the perfect move.Then, 6 months later, she adds something to it, and it gets even closer to perfection! If we had called it perfect then, we'd have to say the new move, which is even better, is less than perfect when compared to the old one.The world doesn't work that way...Things can always be better (or worse) and deliberately making errors because you think you may offend God with your 'perfect' artwork is such a conceited, offensive action, it would be more likely to offend God than anything else...------------------Charleshttp://juggling.co.nz


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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:this is continuing the off-topic portion of this thread, but I gotta share it with you.For a few years I went to a school run by Opus Dei people - fanatical catholics basically. It was an entirely religious based curriculum with mass twice a week, compulsory confessions every 2 weeks and a period of religion every single day. Anyway, in home economics we were taught that to make something perfect is indeed and offense to god as only he is perfect. One example of this is when we were making patchwork quilts and we were forced to deliberately make one patch imperfectly so as to not offend the jealous and fearful lord above.anyway, I'm now a very confused individual when it comes to religion. I feel guilty about being agnostic!! bastard catholic guilt tripping....Back on topic now: I'm my own worst enemy. I have no realistic view of my twirling; I have no idea at what level my talent is. I'm very hard on myself, but at the same time am quite lazy. I have a massive competitive streak in me and sometimes I feel overwhelmed by other people's twirling and kinda cave in on myself.Don't get me wrong, I firedance for the joy of it, but the bitch in my is always subconciously pushing for me to be the best. Comes from being a big fish in a small pond for so many years I think. It's something I'm growing out of though - I can actually accept defeat graciously from time to time, twirling related or not.

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NYC_not_PK


NYC_not_PK

One Tyred Guy
Location: Camaiore, Lu, Italy

Total posts: 203
Posted:I used to be really competitive. In high school I was a nightmare. My friends would stop playing games with me and my other competitive friends. I am still permanantly banned from Pictionary. In college I realized that I didn't NEED to push as hard as I had been to be happy. I enjoy living relatively simply. That realization changed my career choice and made me a MUCH happier, relaxed, self aware, respectful person.Whenever I beat myself up it's often because I've lost perspective due to a stressful situation. My life is usually wonderful. I assume it will always be because I've always been sucessful in dealing with what it has dealt me.Perhaps if we take more pride in your sucesses and realize that it's a journey not a goal, we will all be a bit happier.Trying hard to practice what he preaches...-MrMo

PK is a god.. i love the Peeekster.

.:PK:. [poiinthepark founder member]


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing smileSTAY SAFE! hug

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Posted:I wouldn't compete with yourself, that's a bit too low.For example, had I competed with myself only for martial arts I would never be a match for those 6'7" guys that can toss 200 lbs over tables like ragdolls because I am simply not that tall or big, and can't grow to that proportion anymore.Instead I shoot for the strongest, fastest, best, so you too should find who is the best out there and try to beat them. If they are that much better you will gain skill in bounds rather than small increments when besting yourself.For this twirling you guys do, or poi, I don't have much experience in, I suggest travelling to india or china since this and many other forms of display of skill has existed since the beginning of time. You'd have to find some of the more intact original cultures and there you'll find masters which you can attempt to supersede.I plan on travelling myself to these old countries in search of vastly surpassing skill, but I fear I'm not yet invincible enough. You and others seem to think you are, so I suggest your journey has begun.

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Knagi


member
Location: Brunswick, Ohio

Total posts: 397
Posted:I compete with that, that doesn't exsist. I picture someone doing moves that could only be done in a dream. But it's something more then that. I guess the best word for it would be perfection but it's something even greater then that. When I started learning I had no-one but the image of that ghost spinner to train with and trying to rival someone that doesn't exist is alot of fookin work! Everytime I get better he doubles in skill. It should be humbling but it's the oppisite when I get ahold of poi <this cross is doubling the affect> I'm totally cocky about my skill. Don't get me wrong I'm a ball to be around and I try to advance everyone I meet as best I can, but I'm horriable about it. I get pretty close to offending myself after a perfect move based spin
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However there can never be perfection in fire art. Every expression of it is what the person is feeling. It's not all simply based on moves. But for me most of the time it is. I've only had expression in my spinning once or twice. As for travling to india... Umm yeah it's been around forever but wouldn't the better place to find the person to best you be at Burning man? Just how many spinners/twirlers are there at this thing? I'll go next year and who know's how good that damn ghost will be by then.------------------We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonMost Memerable crowd saying "Hey look that dude's gonna set himself on fire again!"[This message has been edited by Knagi (edited 17 August 2001).]


We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:hmmm..very interesting. I was brought up as a pagan spiritualist, believing that we are part of the greater power (no matter what we call it) and through many lives strive to be among the gods. It's called a god path, which is the overall journey among all the small ones we take. My theory on things as well is that shouldn't be about the destination but about the journey, as getting to where I am going is what is the most fun. Maybe that is why I push? To continue the journey, since if I found absolute perfection then I would reach a destination and where would I be then?I think I must've misunderstood something here though. add a flaw into fire performing? Now, I know the theory as well, it is done with handmade oriental rugs for churches too, but it just seems a little dangerous where fire is concerned!
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I however, know i have a long way to go. I am mere mortal. I will *never* be perfect and I don't want to be but the push for it......Whipping Boy has all but banned me from playing computer games against him, which I don't do anyway but just in case, because I work to excell but not necessarily to compete with others, just top my own scores and such.
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anyway, I have really enjoyed this thread, it's interesting to see that several of us suffer from this (seems we are more alike than we thought Flash Fire
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).Thank you all, I look forward to reading more.------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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adamrice


adamrice

poo-bah
Location: Austin TX USA

Total posts: 1015
Posted:I really don't have a competitive spirit (in fact, I'll bet I can top all of you for uncompetitiveness {g}). I quit bike racing when I realized that I didn't care whether I won.It's like that for me with poi too, only moreso, since I don't think of poi as a competitive pursuit in the first place.What matters to me is whether I am satisfied with myself, and this is a two-level thing. I can do a set and say to myself "yeah, I didn't have any major goofs, and it felt good, I felt fluid, and I managed to work in a couple of stunt-moves pretty nicely" and be satisfied with that, but still want to take my performing to the next level. The first is more of a micro-level thing, the second is a macro-level thing.

Laugh while you can, monkey-boy

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Posted:"I was brought up as a pagan spiritualist, believing that we are part of the greater power (no matter what we call it) and through many lives strive to be among the gods."The first obvious folly in this, is that the world grows in population. And if we grow where are these new spirits coming from? And also, where have they gone when there is a huge world war?Is there a place where they sit out on the bench or have they turned into gods(highly unlikely considering humanities flaws) and taken leave of us? I suppose it's an alright religion/belief, but then it's very self destructive if you seek godlyness.You are always who you are never better in the big scheme of things, so you will always be just this human on earth who can die to a bad bee sting, twirling some sticks for example is an expression of your focus, and that's why I say you should travel to the old countries, because their focus is way beyond western civilization.I myself prefer the buddhist idea that we are all existent on this other plane, we have no bodies and this material world doesn't exist, so when you twirl your sticks you are simply making an expression, one that is unique and different, because you look different no matter how good you are. Noone can be "better". Jim Carrey for example, can fumble his sticks and leave a more lasting impression than the grand master of poi, I'm sure, and that's his way to represent himself, but still a valid way.Even if material things do exist, we're still no better than what we are.It seems humans keep trying to make the tower of babel over and over.
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Back to Pele, if you believe getting better/stronger is the only path, you will as Ryu would say in Street Fighter Alpha, "join the dark hadou".
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s-p-l-a-t


member
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia

Total posts: 383
Posted:While I believe that a trip to Goa or some other similar place would be beneficial (sp?) ... I also believe that 'striving to be like God' not such a bad thing (although I suppose what context you take it in) ...I mean .. if we were all as humble, passive, forgiving, generous, supercalifragilistic etc as many texts illustrate the world would most certainly be a better place yes?

The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King

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Knagi


member
Location: Brunswick, Ohio

Total posts: 397
Posted:While driving around in my car today that damn ghost whooped me again. Busted out with a double atom. Something like holding both hands apart and in front then switching from a butterfly to a horizontal butterfly without moving his arms. Really fast and on perfect planes. Ugh it never stops with him :PWhile we are talkin about relgion's has anyone read the Wheel of time by robert jordan? I totally belive in his woven rug idea. And I am amused sometimes noticing myself to be a ta'veern.------------------We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonMost Memerable crowd saying "Hey look that dude's gonna set himself on fire again!"

We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:you're ta'averen (sp?)well, i'm from the Red Ajah, so you'd better run like the wind!!
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no, actually if I was an Aes Sedai (don't worry, have had many acid induced fantasies with close female friend relating to this topic) I'd probably be Green or Blue.People most often compare me to Nynaeve. I have a long thick braid that I often pull on too! I hated the comparison at first, as I thought Nynaeve was a friken b!tch but I guess I've come to accept my flaws a little more and can actually see the similarities
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Knagi


member
Location: Brunswick, Ohio

Total posts: 397
Posted:Hehe I didn't say anything about channeling that would be going over the edge. <Watch me spin these two 10 foot balls of fire off my hands that I create with sheer will-power :P> Could you imagine the show Rand could put on if he knew how to spin? Hehe, Sometimes I do feel like events take shape around me. It's like luck but alittle stronger and more sure. Like ppl making decsions that wouldn't normaly be made without my presance.------------------We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonMost Memerable crowd saying "Hey look that dude's gonna set himself on fire again!"

We are all in the cosmic movie. That means the day you die you watch your whole life repeating for eternity. So you'd better have some good things happen in there and have a fitting climax. --Jim MorrisonIt's going to come from a direction you didn't predict at a moment of chaos which you didn't see coming. -- NYC

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Posted:I agree that spinning with talented twirlers increases your own skills much faster than trying to do so on your own...however the competitive thing for me is a total turn off.I really dont like it when the situation I'm in seems to be a competition...I LOVE twirling with ppl better than me or not or whatever, however when ppl start putting ppl down for how they twirl (attitudes etc notwithstanding) I just leave. either metaphorically or reallly!I was a little worried when I met up with Myst that because of our online disagreements it may turn into a bit of competition prove thy self fest...but no - he was cool about it all, and we all had a wicked spin - one in which all particpants gained - and I think thats the way it should always be...at least for me.I'm thinking that because of the sheer number of ppl at Burning Man, that there will be some wankers there only out to prove who is the baddest of all the fire twirlers...but seriously - I think I'm over it...and I'm so fuckin happy to know it
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I'm a competitive bastard, but I dont expect perfection from anyone but myself...
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)Just for an example of what I was talking about above ie the learning faster when in the company of skilled peers...In the time before I came on holiday - I learned a few moves, but it was basically stylistic...in the 1 month I've been travelling I've learned;-b/h the back rvs weave (thanks Antti)-5 fwd 5 rvs weave (Pozee)-a whole stack of wraps (Pozee and Myst)-about 3 between the legs moves (Pozee) including getting into and out of between the legs butterfly (Kate at Fusion).-I've also managed to pull off a one handed cartwheel while spinning two poi in the non-supporting hand...-I've also got 3-beat weave with my doubles(!!)-Neck wrap/catch with doubles...Its alll GOOD! keep the creative juices flowing, and what better way than being inspired by all the talented ppl I've come into contact with!
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)Whats this competition with others shit? Sure push yourself, but collaboration is better than battling...thats just a bad joke in my opinion..and is the game kids with not enough confidence in their twirling play..out,Josh[This message has been edited by [Josh] (edited 24 August 2001).]


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