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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:Ok so I watched Dantana's video, and now I'm stuck on air wraps. I have the hyperloop down (on the right side anyway... left is still eluding me), and I can do a standard airwrap in front of me from a windmill (Even almost got it behind my head now, yay!). But these butterfly ones are messin with me.

Namely, the one where you go from a butterfly into letting the chains hit on your right side (requiring a change in the plain of rotation to kinda horizontal), bring them up in front of you with the right hand on top, and then somehow (this being where I'm confused) bringing them apart. I can get to the part where my right hand is above my left, but my poi always get tangled as I try to bring them apart. I think it has something to do with that little shake / bounce that Dantana puts in right as he's pulling them apart, but I can't get my head around it... It feels like my right poi wants to come out, but the left one is too low to let it, so the right one just starts wrapping around the left chain again. Is that what that little bounce does? Put an extra push upward for the left poi to allow room for the right to pass underneith and unwrap?


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BlackFireJack


member
Location: Bergen , Norway

Total posts: 167
Posted:If i remember the video right....the i think he cross the pois....let one ball go between his arm ......let the next ball go under both arms ( on the outside of both) and the release the chains with letting the third ball go between his arms .......
that should be a move anyway.....
if I'm right


I like Fire.. :)

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:ok... the left poi enters between my arms, then...both poi do a rotation above my hands and then bellow and finaly only the right poi pops up and goes between my arms to unwrap the hyperloop. that is wha the little bounce is for. There are actually two bounces. the first bounce is right when the chains cross, allowing one poi head to pass between my arms (and sending both poi all the way up). the second bonce is after they drop back down and it only brings one poi head up between my arms, and then it drops back down, thus unwraping the hyperloop. I hope that helps.

[ 02. July 2003, 17:27: Message edited by: DJ Dantana ]


we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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DJ Dantana
BRONZE Member since Aug 2001

veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA

Total posts: 1495
Posted:BTW, this move is more of a corkscrew than a butterfly, although it does have characteristics of both.

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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BlackFireJack


member
Location: Bergen , Norway

Total posts: 167
Posted:Opps...think I have to download that video again
that was more than i thought


I like Fire.. :)

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dream
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

dream

currently mending
Location: Bristol, New Zealand

Total posts: 493
Posted:Sounds cool, where can i find the video?

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

Nietzsche

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yannicus
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

yannicus

member
Location: Paris, France, the armpit of e...

Total posts: 169
Posted:frustration is my name

that video of dantana is one mysterious sequence of events. i cant get the butterfly airwrap or hyperloop at all. i use sock poi for practise and they just seem to wind more than they are supposed to.

and for the weave hyperloops he does, everytime i try it starts out right, and then the heads smack my hands and go apeshit.

i dont even want to try the windmill one or i'l lose an eye


-Believing that all has been said and done is like mistaking the horizon for the limits of the world. Voltaire.
-Plus je connais hommes, plus j'aime mon chien. Pascal.

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:The butterfly hyperloop is an optical illusion created to wreck my head. I've given up on this move becuase it's not possible

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:I haven't got any poi on me so this is, from memory, how I think I do butterfly hyperloops.

Butterfly Air Wrap- or whatever it's called
First a bit of practice:
Do a forward butterfly in front of you then move it to a butterfly buzzsaw on your left.
Then in series of single beats move from this buzzsaw to a butterfly and back to a buzzsaw on your right.
Then try this all around and in both directions 'cos it's a good move to learn and will set you up for the Butterfly Hyperloop. The rhythm of this move is very important.

Getting to the real thing -
Do the butterfly buzzsaw on left.
Spin the right hand poi on the outside of your hands.
As the right poi comes up move it's plane to cross inside your hands and across the path of the other poi.
As the right poi comes up it should cross chains with the left poi.
As both poi come up to the top of their circles tangled move to a forward tangled butterfly in front of you.
You need to keep your hands a consistent distance apart - sowhen the poi are in front of you your hands are a few inches apart horizontally.
Again as the poi come up again move to the butterfly buzzsaw on the right and they poi will untangle.

As with all the hard moves this might take a lot of practice to get. After you've got this try the other ways to do it and also try it completely in front of you with the poi going fomr butterfly to internal butterfly & crossing, back out, then untangle back in. Also try multiple beats in this move, so you tangle up twice.

Good luck

Oh, DeepSoulSheep - I might be weekending in Dublin in a month or so as I'm currently working in Belfast, so you could just wait until I teach it to you.

[ 03. September 2003, 20:37: Message edited by: Dm ]


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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:That's really clear thanks Dom, will give it a whirl later on. I've been trying it for a while now so I've a feeling I'm still going to have to wait for you to get down to show it too me

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA

Total posts: 1269
Posted:ok wheres the dantana vid section so I can get some of these vids.. I learn by seeing more so then readin and every other threadf is talking about this cool ass move in a dantana vid..


I wanna be that cool too...


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:OK, another funky air wrap I'm wvaguely orking on. Can't get this move at all consistent yet as I'm not really understanding the specifics to how it works.

Spin a forwad butterfly.
Bring both poi to rest on the opposite forearm so that the strings cross.
For anyone who doesn't know what I mean basicaly it's like a wrap, but you stop the poi so that the poi head is resting just over the curve of your arm. You can easily send the poi back into a circle by pulling it sharply, which will send it flying up from your arm.
When your poi are crossed in this position you're half way to a hyperloop,
So if both poi launched at the same time (or I think the one underneath goes fractionally first) they can air wrap and fly back into a butterfly.


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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Great idea but I think it'll be a while before I'm attempting that one.

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:this one hit me inna head.

.

ouch!

.

there, you see?


T


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:Rebump!

I found a nifty, interesting yet inconclusive little movement today. It involves bringing both poi directly after tangle (in buzzsaw) through the "inside" area between arm and thigh to in front of you. As I did this I swapped the hands around relative to each other (left where the right was and right where the left was), which I thought might untangle it but didn't. I could immediately swap them again using the same motion but couldn't get out of it. It definitely feels like there's something to be found in there though???

Does anyone know what I'm talking about?

Anyone know the way out of here! confused


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:yoyoyo....

its all cool, I am here, I understand. been messing around my theory for a while and this is just the time to spew it

Bear with me...

How buterfly hyperloops work.

in a weave hyperloop the tangle, or winding up of the hyperloop happens on either outside plane, which becomes the winding plane, with the other automatically becoming the unwinding plane. between the planes, in the inside or inverted plane the tangle is both winding and unwinding at the same time, and produces the orbital plane.

buterfly is exactly the same. but the planes work difrently.

In butterfly the inverted/inside plane on one side becomes the winding plane, the outer planes become the orbital planes and the opposite inverted plane is of course the unwinding plane.

this can be nicly demonstrated by tangling on you left inside, turning left into wall plane for a few beats then to the left again to untangle.

single beat wall plane airwraps work as stated above, i think, because first one then the other poi come inside to tangle and unwrap.

winding up. as with weave tangles, you can wind the tangle by crossing your arms. so in wallplane bf airwrap, crossing your hands in one direction will put the airwrap fully orbital, whilst the other direction will unwrap it. handy when crossing outside to ouside bf hyps.

humm, please error shoot this for me, i might stick a longer artical on pip later.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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DeepSoulSheep
GOLD Member since Sep 2002

DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin, Ireland

Total posts: 2617
Posted:The winding and unwinding added to my understanding a bit.



Don't think you understand what I was asking though unless the paragraph starting "winding up. as with" addresses it. Cause it is to do with swapping hand position relative to one another in the same place but I don't quite get that paragraph.



Edit to avoid double post:



Ok I've sorted it and understand what I'm doing. I've not seen this posted before(could be wrong) so I'll try to explain it here.



It's like an inside version of butterfly airwrap and it's 2 beat/circle/whatever. It is easiest if you think of this in terms of twisting from wall plane as opposed to turning to the sides.



Tangle to one side in buzzsaw zone as usual, instead of bringing the tangle the front the way you normally do. If you say tangle to the left first immediately move to the front.



The right poi travels the usual path, but make sure your left poi passes through the "inside zone" between the arm and the body. This is a knacky kind of body pop to make space and has to be done quite quickly. As you do this you should be swapping the position of your left and right hands relative to each other. This is circle one.



Circle 2 is exactly the same movement on the other side. This time your right poi must pass through the "inside zone" and your left one pass outside your arms. Again your hands swap position relative to each other and it unwraps as if by magic.



Circle 2 is tricky if you keep getting horrible tangles and it doesn't untangle make sure your left poi is going to the right place. If it's headed toward the inside zone you're in trouble...that's what got me for a while anyway... rolleyes



smile


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:yea i think youre right nx, i did try to explain it in my post about tangles a while ago. im still working on keeping them continuosly winding and unwinding though. its so hard to stop them turning into mutant corkscrews.

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:deepsoul, yup, thats covered by winding up. the rest is just the in and outs of it

oli, yup. wink

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:I've been playing with this as well, using the inside plane, crossing my wrists and doing crossed-arm transitions between the outer and inner planes. You can go from forwards BF airwrap and exit from a reverse if you do it right... unfortunately I've not quite worked out how it works yet wink

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:gathy dose something insane like that, where it changes direction somewhere somehow... weird things do happen.

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic

Total posts: 1841
Posted:Ok I found that with BF hyperloops:

When I make a tangle in buzzsaw with left Poi on the top and right on the bottom whetn they tangle inside(Im not sure if it matter?). And than I move the BFh.loop to the left plane and back inside. It makes the loop double.Than back into the left plane where u can "stop" moving with the BFh.loop for long time, than turn left and move the BFh.loop into the opposite inside plane, than again to the left plane and again inside. That get out the double loop and after one more beat BFh.loop untangle.
Voala smile


POI THEO(R)IST

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:one more time.



idiot's guide.

...

okay, geeks guide. if this is cryptic please forgive. or bug coleman. but this really is the easiest way to learn these.

start with a split time bfly trinity mirror ww, with the full circle sides done inverted. mirror ww definition

seen from above the triangle has 3 sides, the front wall plane is one, the point of the triangle opposite the front wall plane is your chest, so the other two sides of the triangle are planes which go from your sternum out to the wall plane.



try the ww without the tanlgy bit first, and i promise once you get it clean the same "drag" transitions apply sewamlessly to the inverted bfly airwrap. for now, the two full circle "sides" of the ww are done as simple open bf inversions, or "buzzsaw butterflies." the right hand wick will be buzzsawing slightly to the right and the left hand on the left.

the carry pattern in front, when done correctly, will look like an ellipse. this is important in the beginning until you get more control and can flatten the carry plane.

if you are truly in split time the poi will both hit your chest at the same moment, and hit the outside points of the triangle coincidentally as well.



next try to add in the tangly bit, read up my old post on the jedi thread for a better description. basically start on one side, in the inversion, cross your hands to tangle when the wicks are on the wall plane point of the triangle, and pull hands apart so the chains are tangling as they hit the sternum. you could say this time the buzzsaw butterflies are done with the left hand chain slightly to the right and vice versa.

carry the tangle outside for a carry (or if you're crazy see if you can keep the tangle going on the wall plane before inverting again on the other side. tilt your carry plane 20 degrees or so off of vertical, the top away from your face and the bottom toward your feet) and then immediately bring to the right side and invert again to untangle.


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:one more thing. you can only turn one way, depending on 2 things... direction of butterfly, forward or reverse, and which hand is on bottom for the tangle during the inversion. ie. if you tangle a reverse inverted bfly by bringing the right hand underneath, you can only turn right. so if you get to the end of your pattern and you have a huge knot, try keeping everything the same and turning the other way.

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:oh.. and,
sup, beefy!


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:ok, can i try and translate this, more so I know im on the right idea rather than anything else.

(btw, got the btb mirror ww, thanks man)

your talking about a ww infront, so that the butterfly goes from behind you at the left hip, carried across the front wall plane to behind at the right hip.

exept that you are talking trinity, and inverted.

trinity you mean that the triangle is a flat wall plane in front, with the other two planes on a line from the edge of the wall plane circle pointing back towards your chest.

inverted you mean instead of going btb you go between the arms. wot im not shure about is if you mean between the arms classic buzzsaw style, or between the arms and the body with say (on the left side) with the left hand out behind you and the right hand at the hip and the poi spinning between them behind the body.

thats the bit im confused about.

for the rest you tangle the poi in whatever invert position we are in, carry across slightly tilted forward and untangle on the other side invert.

Im just aiming for clarifaction here, sounds really wicked.

thanks,

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:the full circles (inversions) stay right in front of you too, classic buzzsaw. condense the ww pattern to circles in front of your chest. arms never go far from right out in front of you. i can do this move barely moving my arms and just pivoting at the waist. the slight tilt is ONLY necessary if you want to stall and keep the "gordian knotted" or "tangled" bfly going in the carry zone

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:cool, thanks man

*runs off to try*

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:MooooooHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
got it, 3rd try (the first two were in the wrong direction)

seriously weird. but i think this winter will be spent on trinity.

cheers!

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2364
Posted:["dad can i put a gun rack on my bicycle?"]

turns, puts hand on son's shoulder, tear in eye
"you don't know how long i've been waiting for someone to say that..."


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:is it just me or is it *much* easier to do trinity when your a bit isolated?

T wave

p.s. got trinity invert airwraps too! eek


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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