tenticle
tenticle

enthusiast
Location: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:
Member Since: 13th Aug 2002
Total posts: 275
Posted:How many beats happen where in btb waist wraps? And where exactly do they go? I've done a search, but text descriptions aren't to helpful... and i've never seen anyone do one up close, or have one positivly identified on video...

So I drew this:

Non-Https Image Link


Now, is a waistwrap 2 beats in position 1, 2 beats in position 2, 2 beats in position 3, then 2 beats in position 2 again? The last two beats in position 2 only do half a circle above my head, and the same hand leads all the way through (the left in this description).

Or is it (starting leading with the left hand) 2 beats in position 2, 2 in position 2, 3 in position 3, to lead with the right hand back into position 2, 3 in position 2, well one does half a circle over my head, and the other does a whole cirle, and as i count beats at the top, thats 3, to change back to lead back into position one with the left hand again.

Or, is it this? (you only turn from your shoulders and waist between pic 2 and 3, it's not a 180' turn)

Non-Https Image Link


(leading with the left) 2 beats in position 1, 2 in position 2 (or 0 beats, they both do a half circle below my waist), two in position 3 (both do a half circle above my head), 2 in position 4?

Or is it (leading with the left) 2 beats in position 1, 3 in position 2 (one goes above my head, one does a complete circle), to lead with the right into 3 beats in position 3 (one goes above my head, one does a complete circle), to lead with the left into 2 beats in position 4?

Or none of the above? And if so, what are these? You seem to be able to lead with either hand, but i find the right hand lead a lot harder.
With the version in the first picture, it's quite easy to join a forwards one into a reverse one with a turn (which is how i came up with the second version).

--Ben


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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:WOW! I can't even imagin how you get your hand over your head. This is what I do know.

the simplest btb waist wrap is a two beat. You can keep it going on just one side of your body too. It will be just like a two beat weave. So, the simple version is, on each side 2 beats and (2?) beats for transition. you can also mix in some wrist wraps and and enter into it from a btb bweave to get a total of four beats on the initial waistwrap.

I hope that helps.

you can add turns while still in btb waistwrap...as you know. you can also slip in some btb weave hand positions, which adds to the number of waistwrap beats.


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tenticle
tenticle

enthusiast
Location: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:
Member Since: 13th Aug 2002
Total posts: 275
Posted:Oh, sorry... thats one POI goes over my head, not one hand... the poi crosses over, does a half circle above my head (possibly a 'carry' mentioned in other waistwrap threads, but i'm not sure...), then crosses over on the other side.

But anyway... so the first one is a btb waist wrap?

--Ben


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DJ Dantana
veteran
Location: Stillwater, Ok. USA
Member Since: 15th Aug 2001
Total posts: 1495
Posted:it is the simplest version, yes. By the way, I love your drawing, very clear. I wish everybody posted drawings *cough* arashi *cough*

we eat and we drink and we smoke and we try!

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arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:okay this is so much eaier than all this is making it, but the problem is doing weave wiastwraps is complex math to try to write down. start with the bfly waistwrap, they are less confusing cuz for weaves you have to account for different beat weaves making the hands crossed, so it becomes lots of math.

btb bfly waistwrap...
one full beat in 1, half a beat(carry) in 2, one full beat in 3. rinse repeat.

one we call titty twister, a weave... the entrance on this one is crucial, but this is the easiest waistwrap, so here goes...
coming from a fwd (clockwise)3 beat btb wall plane weave on right(3.), leading into 2. with right hand, 2 beats. leading into 1. with right hand, 2 beats. now waistwrap begins, carry both hands through 2. and across to 3. for two beats.

as i said, weave waistwraps are complex cuz you have to know when to begin, so that you hands are able to follow each other during the carry without having to uncross first.


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Taniwha
member
Location: Aotearoa
Member Since: 8th Apr 2003
Total posts: 138
Posted:U can do as many rotations as u want. 5 is pretty good imo. You do 3 in front and turn back halfway through and un weave on the side or under the arm. Or u can do recoil wraps in front. Both are quite tricky, but the initial 1st bt is easy cause its just turning btb but on the front wall plane.

Its all just smoke and mirrors

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:i vote for the first one

'btb waistwrap' aka '2bt fwd to rev weave btb in the wall plane' which has four beats.

counting beats on a waistwrap has not been my strong point of late but the 1-2-3-carry thing you got in the first one is the classic btb waistwrap.
definitely four beats in that.

carry's are well confusing for trying to count beats as the beats are in very different places depending on whether you spin a top or bottom carry.


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:I thought it was the first one but the carry would bring begind the back to 1 after 3?

I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:i think that's what ben meant by 'half circles in position two on the way back to position one'.

if one hand leads all the way through and you've got four beats somewhere in those positions, its gotta be pretty damn close to a waistwrap i reckon...


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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tenticle
tenticle

enthusiast
Location: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:
Member Since: 13th Aug 2002
Total posts: 275
Posted:There's 4 beats in total i think, so the half circle things must be what get refered to as carries. Right.
Now, whats a full waistwrap? Or is this a full waistwrap, and the one that does 2-3-1 and a carry-2 (the second one i described) a half waistwrap?

--Ben


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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:i really can't describe a full waistwrap man, sorry.

you can do the btb ww and if you know the front one you mix the two.

your first picture will help here.

from position three, you split the carry's behind and in front.
so you carry your right arm across the front and your left arm behind the back to start the front ww. when you get to both arms behind on the right, you carry your left arm in front and your right arm btb back to position one.

or at least i think that's how i do it - its hard to know without spinning it.
damn this corporate machine


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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tenticle
tenticle

enthusiast
Location: ati: on: She: ffi: eld: UK:
Member Since: 13th Aug 2002
Total posts: 275
Posted:Thanks! If i'm doing what your describing, then thats the confusing mess of arms that i use to get into position to do the btb one anyway...

--Ben


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Sepa
member
Location: London
Member Since: 24th Apr 2002
Total posts: 184
Posted:OK, here is my take on a waist-wrap (and thank you Michal for teaching it to me!).

This is for a clockwise ww, - so the poi are moving in a clockwise direction around your body, although at individual points in the ww they may be actually moving in an anti-clockwise direction.

The first step is to do a hip-reel. This is an split-time figure of 8 at the left hand side of your body, withe the left hand poi leading. Then make sure you can do a hip reel on the right hand side of the body, with the right hand poi leading.

Then join the two together by adding in an extra turn in the middle. Your hands will actually do three circles, although the poi do more.

After you have finished the reel on the right hand side, bring your left hand followed by your right hand above your head (do one turn of a windmill here to be tricky) and then bring them back down at your left hand side to begin again (ginnigan...). This is the front or half-waist-wrap.

To do a btb section, which will make up the full wrap, don't even think about it until you can do _both_ a backwards and a forwards btb weave.

When you are ready, carry your left hand side to the front of you, and the right hand side to the back of you (this is the same movement that you do to go from a backwards weave to a backwards btb weave). Do a one beat of a btb reverse weave, then add an extra turn in the middle, and do one beat of a forward btb weave then carry your left hand behind and your right hand in front to begin the whole thing again.

The distinguishing thing about the btb part of the ww is that the poi circle more in front of you than at your side, so you need to be super flexible, even more flexible than you need to be for the front btb weave.

I have no idea if this will help anyone, I hope it does.


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Sepa
member
Location: London
Member Since: 24th Apr 2002
Total posts: 184
Posted:PS you don't turn around, but stay facing in the same direction!

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